As many well know, I find property and land taxes to be the devil. Literally the worst form of taxation (I could be convinced that a capitation tax is worse). In thinking about why I feel that way, I realized that one of the big factors in my perception of a tax is escapability. How easy is it to get around paying that tax?
Consumption taxes (sales tax, etc) tend to be relatively easy to get around. Depending on the product, you can make it yourself, barter for it, pay for it under the table, or structure the sale so that tax isn’t applicable (online sales). Targeted consumption taxes (like the Fair Tax) are even easier to get around. Buy all but your essentials used, and you pay no tax.
Income taxes are harder to get around, but you have options depending on the circumstances. You can put your money into tax-advantaged investment accounts. You can take your income in creative ways that alters the type of tax you pay on it. You can offset your income with the various tax loopholes provided in the tax code.
Commerce taxes (corporate tax, VAT, etc) are even harder to get around because they’re already priced into your products when you purchase them. You’re reliant on another entity to minimize their tax burden so that you pay less taxes as passed through their products.
Existence taxes (property, land, capitation) are impossible to get around because you have to exist somewhere. Even if you rent instead of own, you’re paying property/land tax. Even if you take no government services, you exist so you owe a capitation tax. The only thing you can do is live somewhere that has a less onerous tax burden than your current locale.
Comments
317 responses to “Escapability of Taxes”
Our resident Georgists are now super triggered 😀
Also, first.
Wow, um, okay.
Ok that’s funny. Never saw that.
And that video is now being sent to everyone I know. Lulz.
That’s pretty good.
Crap, I have that same hat…
“My cousin is a cow”
Identifies as a cow ?
“When snowf…” This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by RayWilliamJohnson.
What was it?
It obviously triggered someone at YouTube.
Sonsabitches.
Trigger Warning: Facebook video
Also bracing for a fair-tax diatribe.
Is that like any field of study with the word “science” in it? That is, it isn’t really?
Congrats on triggering all our poly sci grads.
SAT analogy–
Political science is to Science as
Military Intelligence is to Intelligence.
Hey!
Ah, hell. It’s a fair cop. And I have a BS in it. Think about that shit for a second. A lot of universities have the grace to offer it as a BA at least, but I guess because I had to take a few stat classes it’s pretty much the same thing as physics.
I honestly think that the appending of “science” to every conceivable field of study is a ploy to allow these people to bludgeon their ideological opponents with the word “science”.
“But Drumpf cannot logically win the election! Every Political Scientist™ says so! Why do you hate science??”
Or just, you know, polysemy.
I just plain STEM envy..
You should seek satisfaction in other things.
Ohh, you and your genetic privilege.
I am not triggered.
In fact, I agree on the inescapability of the SLT (not the LVT, the S is the key part of it).
But I still think it is the least immoral tax, because you can’t really own land.
[insert Futurama clip here]
Also, in my opinion, the big advantage of the Single Land Tax (see once again the key word) is that it can’t raise enough money to support a government anywhere near the size of the current one. We would have to cut government spending, at all levels, by at least 2/3rds.
But which person or entity will exercise control over the land, and how do they get an exemption from the “can’t own land” clause?
“because you can’t really own land.”
Why not?
Property tax is no different than paying tribute to a king for the use of the land. It makes land owners into renters.
It is evil.
agreed.
My vote for worst form of taxation eva.
The only answer I’ve heard is that “you can’t make more of it”.
But this doesn’t make sense to me: you can clear forests, drain swamps, level mountains, bulldoze dilapidated buildings, and otherwise open up new land for use that was unusable before. You can even push dirt into the sea and create new land, although this is admittedly small scale.
Even if the quantity of land were totally fixed, there are still tons of goods like that. You can’t produce more Leonardo da Vinci paintings, but nobody argues that these paintings need to be treated like some special economic good that can’t be owned by any one person or entity.
I can’t make gold, but if I find it and dig it up it belongs to me. I can’t make a fish, but if I catch one, it’s mine. I can’t make a cave, but if I find one and nobody else is there and I move my crap in and sleep there and maybe set up a nice thatched porch/mudroom, I think it would be reasonable to consider the cave “mine”, despite the cave also being land.
The other terrible tax is the regulations that are basically a tax on your time. You can make more marginal dollars; you can’t make more marginal time.
I answer it with a question:
By what means do we acquire the ownership of land?
I have yet to hear of a natural law ownership of land argument that I find acceptable.
I might accept “Because God gave it to me”, in which case I will acknowledge land ownership in Israel (original Mosaic boundaries).
We would have to cut government spending, at all levels, by at least 2/3rds.
Hell, why stop there?
So, stipulating “least worst tax” and stuff like that, if land can’t be owned by what right does a government collect taxes for its occupation?
Because fuck you, that’s why.
But you knew that already.
Actually, yeah, that is the best I can come up with. I think the government is the substitute for distributing it to everyone.
I feel rather dumb, but capitation?
Head or poll tax. You are here, give us the muneez.
Thanks.
Think about a driver’s license fee. It taxes based on the person instead of the object.
Ok, yeah that could be the worst.
Is the opposite de-capitation?
Yes. You are charged 10% for every severed head you bring to the polls.
I think that’s the most escapable tax. Or am I voting wrong?
I keep my severed heads on the poles.
Do you get more votes depending on the minority status of each? At least in blue cities?
In Vikingstan, the government is entirely funded by poll taxes, and the poll tax is set at “previous year’s government budget divided by number of people who cast votes.” Voters must pay the previous years poll tax, in full, when they vote. If the number of people casting ballots fell, then a bill for the balance comes. If the number of people casting ballots rose, than you get a partial refund.
You can’t pay? No vote for you. You don’t want to pay taxes? Just don’t vote.
What would prevent the budget being inflated by a group of people like Soros, Bloomberg, etc to the point where only a select few could afford the poll tax, and thus control the people?
Rope. Trees. Tar. Feathers.
I like just letting people buy their votes.
Everybody gets 1 complete ballot for free. After they can buy additional ballots for specific races or ballot questions starting at $1. However each additional ballot in any given race/question costs 10x as much as the previous ballot.
So, if you want to cast 7 votes for President, feel free to drop $111,111 for those ballots.
Funds collected are given to the level of government the race/question was for
I didn’t know either. Sounds evil though.
Buy all but your essentials used, and you pay no tax.
I was shocked as a teenager to discover that I had to pay sales tax on the old car I purchased from my grandfather in order to register it in New York State.
Yeah that’s pretty stupid. Luckily, when I bought my old truck, the guy was very cool writing a small number in the “sale price” box.
See the great commonwealth of VA makes sure to get you good and hard by setting a minimum tax. It was fun paying $75 tax on a $300 trailer.
Exactly. If the sales price wasn’t “market value” NYS artificially taxed one as if it were. I was so naive back then.
Another stepping stone on my path to libertarianism.
New York has a “sales tax” line on the income tax return where you’re supposed to pay if you don’t itemize. It was only $22 for me, but it’s the principle of it that’s galling.
That would piss me off.
I’ve seen some places use market value on cars.
FYTW.
They do that here. You can’t go in and tell them you paid $500 for your Tahoe.
Anybody know where I can buy used food and toilet paper?
You’re in luck. The used food comes with the used toilet paper.
Ew. I might need some used antacids afterwards.
I paid off my house and land last year. Now all I have to pay is 100 bucks a month protection money to keep the government from stealing it from me.
That’s pretty lenient compared to the protection and brainwashing money paid where I live.
People in most of the rest of the country wish their protection payments were only $100/month!
How much are y’alls property taxes. I’m paying a shade over 1200 a year for my house and 20 acres. I think that’s unreasonable. Is it much worse elsewhere?
Weeps softly into pillow
Ummm.. like almost 10x that, for a fraction of your land size?
$430/year for my typical suburban-sized house, 4 car garage/workshop, and 30 acres.
It was like $380 the year before but our taxes went up.
That’s more like it.
Yea, I was pissed when they raised taxes, but at least the county included a comparison showing we were still lower than nearby counties and are trying to remain competitive.
I also get a land use exemption for farming activities. Double my taxes without that, but anyone can get one who does any sort of agriculture (forestry, hay, livestock, chicken eggs, etc.).
Much worse in other areas, but to get an actual comparison you’d have to know the assessed value of the property. 20 acres in rural Arkansas is not worth any where near as much as a hall an acre in Manhattan on the market. My parents pay about the same in property taxes as you, but only for 3 acres. Can’t say who has the worse deal though without knowing the assessed values of the land.
It’s about 130,000 dollars worth of property.
Roughly the same as my parents then, their last assessment was at 150,000 if memory serves. Rural Pennsylvania, but that three acres is on a private lake and the house is very nice. They also have some HOA fees, but the HOA only exists to manage the lake and about 80% of the money goes towards buying fish to stock it.
275 a month, within town, small town in Iowa, average sized house
get outside of town limits and its usually about half that
When I lived in Illinois in a smaller, older, and less valuable house, but outside of town, in the suburbs I payed 300 a month. In town it would have been 600 a month. I knew a lot of people who paid 800 to 900 a month in IL.
That’s insane. I’m sorry.
Oh, you mean me.
*cries softly into coffee mug*
TX is about that, but you are getting away from income tax.
KY is not nearly so rough, my place is under 200 a month.
About $1k a month for a house on 1 acre.
I can’t think about it because it’s too early to drink.
I do not understand that sentence.
I have 2 school levies on my property taxes and I paid $230 last year. I don’t own much land though, like 1/4 acre maybe.
~$3,600 a year for a townhouse.
$1300-someodd a year (with the 2% early payment discount for paying the month it’s billed) for a 1680sqft house on 5ac in rural NC. $225 of that is for trash collection, the rest is straight-up property tax. The property is appraised at around $138k– Columbus county undervalues property, but has a relatively high tax rate ($.89/$100). I’d pay the same or higher in Brunswick county (next county over, where I grew up) even though they have a lower tax rate ($.45/$100) because they way overvalue property above market value. Market value on my house is about $210k, so Brunswick county would value it around $300-400k.
Gotta love the way counties play with numbers to bump up their taxes if they can’t get people to go along with property tax rate increases.
3 bedroom house, 1/4 acre, assessed at $180k. $12k +/- property taxes in 2014. Down to “just” $10k+ now.
We’re renting because for a long time we tended to relocate as often as if we were a military family. We would never, ever buy property here (Chicagoland). The taxes are just one consideration.
And WTF Minnesoda Glibs? I did NOT need you to send us your snow last night into tomorrow. It’s “spring.”
That’s awful.
Uffda: Getting 9″ of snow on April 3rd.
Best definition of Uffda yet.
You will love the cold that we are boxing up today to send to you.
Also, it wasn’t us. It was MikeS. NoDaks are like that.
Suburban Cleveland here, and I’m paying ~$260 a month for a house that is worth about $110K, on a lot that’s just over 9,000 sq ft. My suburb is one of the higher taxed ones though.
$5k for 1/4 acre
$7k a year.
4 bed, 3 bath house.
Lot is 1/4 acre.
About 1700 a year for a 1300sq house on about a half-acre lot.
A few hundred more than that last I checked. I’ll put it this way. I couldn’t park an RV in my yard.
A little over $5K a year. House (@ 3K square feet) and 3 acres of completely useless desert. Well, to be fair, the property does serve an important purpose – Keeping the neighbors away.
Texas has no income tax. It’s often cited as being a low-tax state, but the state and municipalities make up for that with high property and sales tax rates. Property tax at around 2.25% of the full appraised value, which increases every year, and sales tax at 8.25% on everything but food.
A nice, but modest, house on a suburban Dallas postage-stamp lot runs about $300k, so the annual protection money runs about $7000.
In Illinois, that 300k house would, in urban/suburban places have $7000 (probably more) annual protection money assessed, and there is an income tax which is right around 4% now(not sure the exact rate anymore…don’t live there anymore)
Yes, consider yourself lucky, comrade!
If memory serves, you live in the same general area I do? So if you own a house there you’re probably cursing as loudly as me at the thought of $100/month property taxes 😀
I’m not sure where you live – I’m near the D.C. area. I don’t own my home (yet), but the property taxes on my car are close to $600/year. When I was a proper banker I worked with a lot of clients on loans for residential rental properties and I’ve seen some ludicrous property taxes in the range of $6k – $10k/year.
Clearly, memory doesn’t serve.. nevermind. But yeah, those are the ranges for my property taxes up here in PA.
$433/month on property valued at 400k.
My brother used to live in Florida. I was appalled when he told me what he was paying on 10 acres in the country. The more I think about it the more I like my state. God knows we have our faults but geez when I look elsewhere…
But it’’s for the children!
Ouch. That is kinda steep. I just paid 800 on a 167 acre plot. My house is a different story. 1500 for 7 acres with a house.
You know, even in Ancapistan you would still be paying that $100 a month right?
The only difference is it would be going to multiple agencies and cover your right to use the roads, your personal security service (aka cops) , your fire protection agency, Etc. The only thing that would cut into it is you wouldn’t be paying for schools unless you had kids
>your right to use the roads
Walter Block did a whole 500 page book about ROADZ IN AN ANARCHY. Kinda dry, but interesting reading. Free on Mises.
Personally, I think roads in AnCapistan look a lot more like TV channels then anything else: advertising paying for a good chunk if not all of it.
Average billboard price is around 4 grand a month, something like that. My states DOT budget per mile they are responsible for is under 100 dollars per mile. That means you just need to sell one billboard per 40 miles of road, and you can maintain roads at current standards of quality with governmental efficiency. When you talk about private sector efficiency vs public sector, completely different story.
>your personal security service (aka cops)
Eh…..actual crime is pretty damn rare, and would be even rarer in absence of drug laws and with zero gun free zones.
Investigation insurance is probably cheaper than the cops part of the prop tax bill.
>your fire protection agency
Materials, safer heating sources, and the continued decline of smoking make fires more and more rare every year.
It’s cheaper to have multiple loud alarms and homeowners insurance than it is to pay the damn firemen their huge costs.
I’ll never understand why people think privately owned roads is such a wacky idea. A large number of turnpikes in New England were established by private companies and operated as such for 50 or more years.
Aye. but in Ancapistan, if you didn’t like one protection agency, you could switch to a different, competing one.
I have been complaining about the city streets since I moved here 11 years ago. The city plans to repave only 1.3 miles this summer. They can’t find any money to fix the fucking roads, but they can find money for new windows for city hall, a separate homeless shelter for drunkards, purchase and renovations to to the defunct downtown theater, etc, etc, etc.
Meanwhile I just replaced the wheel bearings on my truck and my wife’s car has two broken coil springs.
We’ve cut our income taxes by more than half by using a highly tax-advantaged retirement income/tax shelter. Its rather elaborate, but it is tax advantaged on both ends and in the middle – all of our contributions to it are tax-deductible (on the front end, its basically a tax-deductible savings account), all of the investment earning are tax-free, and all of our “income” from it in retirement will be tax-free “loans”. Its not free to run – the annual costs of it for us are around 8% or so of what we put into it that year, but compared to the top marginal rate we would otherwise pay, we come out way ahead. Its really only workable for people with a lot of income to set aside, and works best for people who can commit to giving everything inside the shelter to charity on their death. You can have some of the shelter assets go to your family, but that reduces the tax advantage .
According the numbers we’ve run, it will basically double or more our retirement income, because our retirement now runs entirely parallel to the income tax system.
Its sad, though, that you have to go to these lengths to provide for yourself first, rather than providing for the government first.
Its really only workable for people with a lot of income to set aside,
That’s one of my problems with our huge, bloated, unknowable, tax laws.
Fairly wealthy people can evade a large number of the taxes. Poor people don’t pay income tax. People like me, in the middle, get it good and hard.
“Fairly wealthy people can evade a large number of the taxes. Poor people don’t pay income tax. People like me, in the middle, get it good and hard.”
This is by design.
Yes. We are the tax cattle.
Mooooooooooo.
A very wealthy guy I know was telling me how he and his clan basically self-insure their own cars. They have a large bond on file with the state so if anything happened they could use that to pay damages.
In the mean time, they a) don’t have to pay car insurance premiums and b) get to collect interest on that bond.
Yeah, if you are rich there are lots of ways to stay rich.
This. Taxes serve to promote income inequality, not diminish it.
. From the moment of their birth, some are marked for subjugation and others for command – Aristotle.
$100,000 to do that in Pennsylvania. Varies by state, and not all of them allow it.
I know that in Arkansas you can post a bond, 25k I think, and be exempt from carrying insurance. It’s probably worth it if you can come up with the cash.
The problem with the bond is that it isn’t big enough to cover the liability if you tbone and kill a surgeon or a busload of cub scouts. The odds are infinitesimal, but add an umbrella to your liability insrance and you get pretty comfortable.
I don’t overspend on insuance: I carry huge deductibles and don’t waste funds on wrecker service or wet cellphone insurance. But I spend where the risk is: to cover big losses. Anything else should be handled out of cashflow/savings.
I keep the towing, because it’s $7 for six months and the convenience of having them get the truck out to you is worth it.
But yeah, big ass deductibles and keep that amount specifically aside in savings.
Fairly disappointed that the (home page) cartoon alt text wasn’t “Christ, what an asshole”.
Oh well, carry on.
25% federal income tax
8% state income tax
1.45% medicare tax (matched by employers)
6.25% social security tax (matched by employer)
8% sales tax
Extra tax on my booze and cigarettes
Property real and personal tax
Capital gains tax on my invested money
Lost income from my employer because it has to pay payroll/SS/Medicare/and now by law health insurance.
Higher prices on goods because all goods makers are paying these same taxes.
There’s more I’m not thinking of right now. The fucking government takes around 50% of everything I have and they are still 20+ trillion in debt. Taxation is theft
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/how-much-do-americans-really-pay-taxes-2015/
Yeah, I’m never leaving Florida.
Huh. Philly was all the way down at 72. Figured it would be higher.
It’s not just the low taxes that make florida a great place to live. The pythons, alligators, and meth are of top quality too.
Don’t forget hurricanes.
I’d rip on Colorado, but I don’t know anything about it, since it is in fly over country…
I’d be too busy fucking my cousin to listen anyway.
Unfortunately Florida isn’t even in the top ten for meth. I am disappoint.
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/meth-addiction/meth-capital/
Man, Indian worst for meth? Between that and all the fully-semi automatic machine death pistols they’re selling to the angelic youth of Chicago it’s a wonder anyone can survive there.
You could join us up here in Cleveland, we’re 99 on the list. Beating quite a few Florida cities. You’ll just have to adapt to snow and not seeing bird sized bugs around.
Snow? Hard pass.
Do they still have The Circus? ‘Cause that’s the best selling point Cleveland had (has).
I don’t think so. But the Brook Park strip of strip clubs is still there, and they only shut down one hotel near there in the past couple of years.
That is out of date, IL has raised its taxes considerably since 2015.
*cries harder*
What? I thought Illinois was going bankrupt. How can they be broke with all those taxes they are collecting? Somebody obviously isn’t paying their fair share.
Why don’t you emigrate to Switzerland?
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Switzerland/United-States/Economy/Tax
My home state has #2 on the list: Arlington, VA. Where the median income is over $100k. It should probably be noted that your taxes are paying most of these people’s incomes.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
You wouldn’t get Babylon without taxes and rules. Chaos otherwise.
I read that as Texas at first. Visions of Snake Plissken doing battle with post-apocalyptic cowboys and Dallas socialites ran thru my head.
But where do the Cowboys’ Cheerleaders fall into this?
Taxation is theft. This is known.
However, the biggest problem that I notice most people (including many libertarians) having with taxes is the lack of transparency/control over how the money is spent. It’s bad enough to have your money stolen from you, but then to have it wasted on cronyism and worthless things is insult to injury.
I see that split between conservatives and libertarians.
I wish they would spend every dime collected from the citizens of this country on nothing but hookers and blow. At least that way they would be doings something good for the economy instead of actively fucking it up.
Sorry, Lach. The govt would fuck that up too.
The problem is that we don’t have an intellectual culture that recognizes a meaningful limit on what the government should do. The Constitution already lays out the proper sphere of the federal government, but politicians steamroll right the fuck over it, and unfortunately, most people don’t care. They are either 1) people who benefit from the wasteful spending, or 2) people who are so naive that they think anything the government does is important (I’ve actually encountered people who are totally ignorant of many things the government does, but they say, “well, they must be doing this for a reason; the government isn’t just a bunch of stupid people wasting money“).
A lack of liberty-oriented culture is what allows these scumbag statist politicians to get away with all this, but I’m not sure how you’d fix the culture without some kind of massive brainwashing program.
It’s a paradox: there doesn’t seem to be a way to preserve liberty without doing some decidedly unlibertarian things.
People will blame psychopaths for the financial crisis (and may be right), but don’t see it when it’s wearing the right colored tie.
All of the professions with the highest percentage of psychopaths are government or government related and usually require a law degree. Fuckin’ Bloomberg. He is one himself.
“the government isn’t just a bunch of stupid people wasting money”
I wish more people understood that literally the opposite of this is true.
It occurred when I was trying to explain to someone the ludicrous idea of “food deserts”. I live in an official USDA-designated food desert, yet WITHIN the boundaries of the alleged food desert is the largest Kroger in the state of Ohio, a family-owned market that sells local meat and produce (a lot of it from their own farm), a bulk health foods store, a bakery, and countless restaurants.
He made this cocky, raised-eyebrow face at me and said with a chuckle, “I’m pretty sure the USDA isn’t just a bunch of fucktards.“
Did you beat your head repeatedly into your desk? I probably would have.
I think I may have fixed that question for you.
Many times I’d talk to that guy and just end up saying, “we’ll have to agree to disagree” and walk away. He’s just dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to politics. Some other gems:
– Went full bore “take all the guns away” after Sandy Hook
– Telling me that a forklift driver inside the building still has to obey traffic laws or get a ticket
– Insisting that he’s a legal expert and boldly saying, “my buddy is a cop!” My response would be, “and my mom’s a lawyer; what’s your point?“
Like the cops know what the law is anyway. Ask one one day about a particular law and you won’t get an answer.
A good friend has been trying to get an answer from the cops, game wardens, sheriff, etc. on whether or not his minor son can carry his pistol when hunting. The answer he has gotten from the all is, “well maybe.”
I think in most states a minor with a handgun has to be accompanied by an adult.
In AZ that is legal.
“and my mom’s a lawyer; what’s your point?“
Wouldn’t you feel prouder saying she was a prostitute?
Heien v. North Carolina for the win.
Yeah? Did you tell him the food pyramid was concocted by agricultural companies and they paid the USDA in straight up cash bribes to institute it? 50K each in suit cases full of cash for the guys who did that.
Oh, and they are back on the ‘coffee is bad for you’. Speaking of which…I will make a pot.
If coffee is poison, I’m living proof it is a very slow poison.
-some old guy
In the words of the New Orleans streetcar driver ‘It ain’t my money!’.
“Well, it used to be.”
“well, they must be doing this for a reason; the government isn’t just a bunch of stupid people wasting money“
My first shop foreman in the Air Force was asked to dispose of an outdated Emergency Airfield Lighting System (EALS) Kit. He was told to take a single light, and throw it away every Thursday. Why?
– Some of the lights were damaged, which made it an incomplete EALS kit. It could not be deployed per FAA standards.
– Throwing away all of it would draw attention, as the lights would have to be disposed through the proper channels (DRMO).
– By throwing one away at a time, they avoided the hassle of proper disposal, and could use the excuse they were simply throwing away a single, defective light.
The government therefore, is made up of people who are particularly adept at wasting money.
The problem with the government is the perverse incentive structure on which it sits. You could staff it with the best possible people; honest, straightforward and thrifty and they’d still waste massive amounts of money because IT’S NOT THEIR MONEY. Doesn’t matter how good of a person you are, you’re always going to treat a home you own better than a home you’re renting.
The waste and corruption is baked in.
OT:
1200 Rounds of green tip 556 – $350 with code PO180402 at Natchez.
Most indoor ranges won’t let you shoot green tip. If you shoot outside it should be fine.
I don’t even shoot 556 – this was a public information announcement.
“I don’t […] shoot 556”
Do you even lift bro?
I don’t shoot 5.56. I shoot a man’s round, 7.62.
Well, I used to anyway *quietly sobbing*
300 win mag or GTFO!
https://youtu.be/Kk6pAGUgVT8
Preach it, Chip and FL.
I have four rifles:
.308.
.300 Win Mag
.22
.22-250 (which I keep meaning to sell).
There’s nothing in 5.56 that I both want to shoot, and am allowed to shoot.
I could get a Mini-14, but if I was gonna do that, might as well go Mini-30, or Mini-14 in 300BLK.
And as Chip says. If it’s worth shooting, it’s worth shooting with 7.62.
I can add a PSA to your PSA, 6!
/flips table
I dont get the green tip thing. It is a FMJ bullet. It doesnt penetrate any more than other FMJ rounds. I have tried it myself. In 22 the heavier the bullet the more it penetrates. The jacket makes little difference for a projectile traveling over 3000 fps.
I do remember a few years ago when King Zero tried to reclassify it as “armor penetrating”, effectively outlawing it.
That made me go out and buy a bunch just as a big fuck you.
The big to-do about it was because of the AR pistols being made. There has been a ban on “cop killer” armor piercing pistol rounds since the 90s I think. Since M855 is classified as an armor piercing round, it could be banned based on it now being a pistol round.
It’s only allowed now because it got an “in common sporting use” or some such exemption from the ATF.
Which is of course pretty dumb since anyone who owns anything chambered in a 30 caliber of any sort pretty much has a ‘cop killer’ gun.
Since when did logic matter when arguing for gun-control?
I was gonna say the same. Any rifle,or nearly any rifle, will shoot right through the vests the cops wear like it is a kleenex. Without a hardened steel plate those vests are useless for rifles.
MAC made an interesting video comparing 5.7×28 to .22WMR for armor penetration.
Yeah, turns out soft armor is easily defeated by small calibers at high velocity.
M193 has better penetration than M855 from what I’ve read. The issue with ranges is the steel core causing sparks when it hits a metal backstop with m855.
I didn’t know there were any steel core rounds on the civilian market. I dont really know that much about 223. I have a mini-14 and a stock of ammo but I rarely fool with it. My knowledge is mostly about pistols and larger caliber hunting rifles. Ask me anything about cast bullets and I am an encyclopedia. Military style rounds…not so much.
I can see why steel core could be a problem. Yeah, they would spark like hell.
It’s also drill right thru’ anything but the toughest backstops.
I have several 3/4″ and 1/2″ steel plates that I use for pistol targets. I made the mistake of shooting one of the 1/2 plates with 25-06. 90 grains at 3400 fps drilled right through it. Holy crap. I wont do that again. Those plates aren’t cheap.
My buddy works at a flat steel shop and will often take home pieces of plate steel. Since he only has to pay scrap prove for them it is fairly cheap,which is the only way he can afford to keep replacing the backstop he uses for his .204 Ruger. Small high velocity rounds may not leave wide holes, but they will penetrate through Damn near anything.
Well, if he put down the money and bought a chunk of AR500 plate, 3/8 would be enough, but that stuff’s not exactly cheap.
If I recall the 204 Ruger is a round you can jack up to 4000 fps.
You can shoot the rifling out of one of those in no time.
Pro-tip: the steel in a rifle barrel erodes much more quickly whtn it is hot. If you let the barrel cool before slinging more lead the rifling will last much longer. Shoot a bunch of rounds rapidly through a hot barrel and you can shoot the rifling out with only a couple hundred rounds.
My plates are industrial cut-outs that I bought in a scrap yard. They are fine for the cast bullet light loads I use for practice.
Suthen- aye, .204 factory load from Hornady with a 32 grain bullet has a listed velocity of 4,225 feet per second. That gun chews through barrels almost as fast as it does backstops.
25-06 is a wonderful round. That is all.
Judging from the above comments, I’ve come to the wrong place to bitch about 1200 dollars a year in property taxes. You guys are getting screwed. I’ll check my tax privlege from now on.
I get less pissed at property tax than income tax because at least I get “use” of county/state services. The Fed takes about 10x as much in taxes and I can’t point to a single service I get in return.
You’re right. I get almost zero return on the taxes I pay the fed.
At least the county grades my road from time to time and the state (poorly) maintains the highway I take to work.
Me too#
My state income tax would be better used if they just crop-dusted Camden and Newark with it. Instead it gets filtered through layers of embedded crooks. It was supposed to go towards lowering my property taxes by funding local schools. That’s a punch-line at this point unless you live in a fucking “Abbott” District.
My grandfather’s house on Long Island, which is on about the same size lot and a very similar house to mine, incurs $5263 in property taxes.
Not coincidentally, Nassau County has one of the oldest populations in the US .
I pay a lot less than you do. Louisiana has the lowest property tax in the US, or it used to. It still pisses me off.
Third lowest as of 2018, at least according to this site.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/
Believe it or not, Hawaii is the lowest. Amazing for a state that’s about as blue as you can get; must be all the tourism money getting pumped in. I’m sure they fuck you in other ways.
As far as being fucked in other ways-
I was surprised to hear that there was no property tax on vehicles in Oklahoma. I learned right after that they pay 5 times as much as I do to register theor vehicles. The state is going to get its money one way or another.
Same in NJ.
Pennsylvania doesn’t have a tax on cars, besides sales tax when you buy it, and registration is $37 a year for a car; pickups ate more depending on their weight class.
I still get taxed in other ways, but the keystone state is pretty good on cars.
But not on other vehicles. I want a street legal ATV, now.
Can I add half decent alcohol laws and a revocation of Philadelphia’s city of the first class designation while we’re making a wishlist? Oh, and a move to a smaller and part-time legislature and topically for this to plan to go through?
Why, yes. Yes you can!
They did repeal the state store system once recently. The Governor just thought lower prices and more choice would hurt consumers (and/or public sector unions), so he veto’ed it.
*grumbles*
NJ #51!
I’m willing to be that Hawaii has huge hotel/resort taxes.
Hey! I was right… but they’re using it for light rail, which makes it better, right? And the money quote, for those who don’t want to click to the LA Times:
Looking forward to catching the train from the big island to Honolulu.
Light rail? To where? You can walk anywhere there.
I moved from Nevada to New Jersey in the 90’s. Everything is more expensive but the taxes were a shock. At one point about 15 years ago we were looking at a house in Randolph or Roxbury – I asked the realtor about the property taxes. When she told me it was $18,000 a year, I walked out the door without another word.
We’ve been in our current house for 10 years. The value of the house has decreased by $100k while our property taxes have increased to over $1k a month.
My son graduates high school in a little over a year. At that point we will seriously think about selling and escaping.
Gotta pay for those pensions.
Nah. Our new woke Govenor’s first move was to cut back on funding those pensions.
Its cool, I’m absolutely certain the return on investments will grow at an average of 12% per year for the next 30 years. Nothing to see here.
A question would be how are the local school systems funded?
Is it through the property tax? Is it through another tax, State level?
My high property tax is 50% local school taxes, some county and local govt, it is just collected as one property tax. ($14K/year on about 500K value).. I suspect many of the other high tax areas are all one lump sum property tax
Get rid of government schools and problem solved.
Not until you pay off the combined value of the obligated pensions and issued bonds.
You’ve come to the right place Lachowsky. It’s the one place where just about everyone paying more doesn’t think the solution to their own misery is for you to pay more as well. I pay about 1900 a year (3ac, 1500sqft including the garage) and I think you’re paying too much and have every right to bitch about your money being taken from you with the threat of force.
Oh, my bad, I was looking at my semi-annual. It’s $3000 a year. But I’m not bitter. Not at all. Nosiree.
An interesting fight is over aviation maintenance sales taxes. Some states exempt parts and maintenance from sales taxes, (All do for the airlines).
Over the years some states change their status, “Those fat cats should pay their fair share”, and instantly see 90% of this service go to neighboring states. Unless you are AOG (aircraft on ground) aircraft are high value items, with extreme mobility. Getting service 200-300 miles away is just 1-2 hours of travel time, to save thousands of dollars those planes move.
Soon after the tax is changed, all of the mechanics complain (all of the lost work), job loss etc.. and usually the tax gets silently repealed. It wasn’t making the state any money after all.
It is common to keep a new plane in a sales tax free state for the 1st year of its life (registered in Delaware) to avoid state sales tax. This means that you have to keep the plane hangared out of state (and often not have too many days on the ground) , but the costs of flying it in and out of your state are less than paying 7% of millions in sales tax. Airports are required to tell the state about plane #’s that are based there, which the state agents use to try and match new sales with local airplanes. You don’t keep a new plane in Florida for more than 6 weeks that first year you own it or they send you a bill. CA has similar issues, you don’t sign the paperwork for a plane in CA, you do it in Oregon, or Nevada, CA doesn’t have “fly away exceptions”
I made sure that when I bought my plane that I had the “fly away” paperwork (Texas) and that as a used airplane it would not be subject to NJ’s tax (unlike car’s and boats, airplanes are 1st sale only).
I’ve also had engine maintenance, that was done in NY… my shop in NJ only invoiced me for their labor, the work in NY was invoiced directly to me as out of state sales/work..
Hey Mossy, while you’re around, do you have any thoughts about cities closing some of the smaller airports? There’s one in Cleveland that’s sitting right on the lake, taking up 450 acres of (what could be) valuable property that the city has been fighting to keep around for ages now. There’s an article with more details, but it’s long (and from the lefty “independent” zine).
Correct me if I’m wrong (since I know dick about recreational flying), but I’d assume that these would be used more by recreational flyers then the international airports.
It is definitely used by private flyers like me, but more than that it is the corporate traffic, jet turboprop and piston. A Medium airport like BKL is a major economic engine for the area. Businesses that are flexible and have/lease airplanes can quickly access the center of that city. Force them to Cuyahoga county or Hopkins and they will move their buildings, staff and capital out to the county as well.
I haven’t flown into BKL, but if the area is anything like GYY (Gary IN) that 450 acres is really industrial lakefront, not pleasure/recreational.
I have always wondered why Daley bulldozed Meigs. A corporate airport right next to your financial center has to be a local economic power. For NYC Teteboro (TEB) gets most of the traffic since it is the closest to midtown. The Heliports are at Wall ST and Midtown.
First off, thank you for your reply, I appreciate it. It’s something that gets argued about quite frequently in Cleveland, generally by people who have strong opinions about it, but have no facts or knowledge about it.
I don’t believe it’s like Gary. It’s a huge parcel of land sitting right against the lake, a couple of blocks away from the Rock and Roll hall of fame, the Science Center, and the Browns stadium (it can’t all be good). The Cuyahoga county airport is way the hell east, probably a good 30-40 minutes out of the city; however, Hopkins is fairly close to downtown. Although last time I was over near the Cuyahoga county airport, they would probably love to have some office buildings go up and get populated out near them. Hopkins is pretty well surrounded right now by the old bones of the auto industry here, as well as UPS and FedEx depots.
Every location is different, but basically I90 takes up the lake side.. and the airport looks like reclaimed land. I would find out why the traffic is so off for the size of the City (100 OPS/day) I would bet there are other reasons .
To contrast its use I would look at an airport a bit smaller. KSPG “Whitted Airport” in St Pete.
That is directly downtown St. Pete. , has a cafe on the 2nd floor. There was plenty of daily traffic (300 operations/day) . It was walking distance to the Dali museum and other attractions. Parking was $5 if you also went to the cafe.
That was a great day trip, easy visit in southern Florida. Parking at the other gulf coast airports was similar.. $10-15/day… Naples, Marco Island, Venice. Fuel costs not inflated to stupid amounts. Price things well and you flourish.
At my price point paying $50-70 parking for just a day trip needs to be balanced against driving in from the remote airport. I used GYY (Gary) to access Chicago, rather than Midway, since it is directly on the rail line, and ground handling at MDW is much higher cost and takes longer. you might wait 30 mins for release. When there isn’t a choice, I’ve picked Philly INTL.. which was $70 plus and uber, but I was going right downtown to U Penn, I just didn’t want to drive two hours each way. For Boston I’ve flown into Norwood which is right near the train line… The fees at Logan are ridiculous. Time is money, but money is also money, so you balance the two.
The article talks mostly about the reduced traffic as a reason.
I see that there is only one service provider (FBO) at the airport, and it is Signature, and previously Landmark. Signature has a market model of killing traffic to an airport… they would rather handle 10 Gulfstream planes for Netjets rather than service 50 smaller aircraft, and set fees to discourage the small fry. If your small airplane fees are more than downtown parking, you have probably messed up.
If the airport is operated as a public utility (like the freeways) it needs to have some competition or guarantee through the fence service. BKL has it, but they don’t advertise it. You would also need reasonable hangar rents to have locally based airplanes. It shouldn’t expect 100% fee based cost renumeration, No more than the downtown interstate. Basic economic access by road and air is levied via the property taxes.
Checking the fees at the Burke website, they’re about comparable to the downtown daily parking rates (most lots are between $5-$15 daily, not counting special events).
That isn’t the entire fee structure.. well it is if you know not to talk to Signature and know you can park by the tower. (and until recently they didn’t have that option AOPA has been getting airports with high fees to have a low cost option) A tie down says $50/month (which is good) but you are paying too much for fuel.
Signature charges you $50 “handling” or 7 gallons of $7/gallon gas.. you can see how they are received here:
https://www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL/SIGNATURE
Lookup up their ratings at other places like KEYW vs a local FBO at KMTH (Marathon)
Some airports have exclusively leased all access to the one FBO.. which can create a problem. So single FBO, Fuel at $2.50 more than reasonable, you kill your local airport.
Don’t forget surreptitious taxes. My personal favorite is the STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FEE.
This particular fee is levied biannually upon commercial properties in our area based on the total square footage of the property and goes back to the city. It now exceeds the real estate taxes on the property. The cities chose this particular route of fundraising because only the commercial property owners get fucked by it and the homeowners get to live on in blissful ignorance that it even exists.
That still doesn’t beat the Telephone Excise tax.
I used to have to pay that as part of my water bill in Norfolk. I can’t remember the exact amount, but some months I think was at least half of the already substantial bill.
That’s what really sucks: it’s hard to tell how much taxation fucks you over because so many of our taxes are levied on businesses, and most people think it just comes out of some fatcat’s pocket. They act like it’s some horrible injustice if a business “passes the costs onto consumers” (Isn’t that what a business is, though? A way to pass costs on to consumers?)
Despite the popular perception, the United States has rather high statutory tax rates, and I suspect that everyone ends up paying a lot more because of these “hidden” taxes which are only levied on evil greedy capitalist business owners.
I have never bothered to add it up but I would guess most people pay more than 50% of their income on taxes. Add up Federal, state, local, sales, various fees etc.
Without the government stealing half of everyone’s money I have heard some economists claim that the average American would be a millionaire. I have also heard some idiots argue that having government drag everyone down is a good thing.
I bet it more than that if you count the total cost of government. Not only does the government steal money directly from you, it also makes the price of everything you buy more expensive, devalues your savings over time, restricts your ability make more money, and fines you for infractions.
Features, not bugs?
Devaluing your savings is the worst of it. We should talk about something else, I am getting really pissed. I bought my wife an annuity so that the money couldn’t be spent and would be there when she really needed it. The cash in value when it matures is a little over 50% greater than what we put in it but by then its real worth will be about the same as what we put in.
Heads should roll. Seriously. Goddamned thieves.
I have trouble explaining to people and getting them to understand that a tax on a business is nothing but a tax on the consumer of that business’s services. It seems pretty simple to me.
It’s just weird that they think it’s wrong for a business to factor the taxes into the cost of the product.
I guess it’s the “businesses should operate like charities” worldview.
The technical term is tax incidence.
“My personal favorite is the STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FEE.”
Look, you anarchist. You’d just have us live in a world without storm water management. Do you know what would happen? Well? There would be storm water, the unmanaged kind and that’s the worst! Minorities, women, and children hit the hardest! Just like you want!
It’s all true. It’s what I want.
LONG LIVE THE CISHETEROPATRIARCHICALSHITLORDCAPITALISTTRUMPOCRACY
O/T: The Robin’s Nest is getting demolished? Bastards!! Just wait till Higgins finds out about this!
The place is falling apart. Recently owned by chair of obumbles library committee guy. Once again proving that everything the progs touch turns to shit.
Figures that some Obama lackey is the culprit.
It looks like they bought it and just walked off and left it. Zero maintenance.
It was lost? Why didn’t he just file a police report?
The estate was built in 1933 and isn’t listed on the registry for historic landmarks. The only nearby fixture with any sort of historical protection is the ancient turtle pond next to the property.
These idiots out-stupid themselves on a daily basis.
http://freebeacon.com/politics/madeleine-albright-trump-anti-democratic-leader-american-history/
What exactly has he done that’s exceptionally “undemocratic”?
He ran for the opposition. Duh.
He’s a Republican. Of course he’s anti-Democratic. Duh.
Hey!
Saying mean things and making CNN cry is “undermining the press”?
Funny how there’s no mention of Obama’s pointed comments towards Fox News (“we need to change the way they report the news”).
I am gonna slap the next person I hear say ‘our democracy’. We dont have a fucking democracy. We have a republic.
We couldn’t keep it.
We have a democracy. Our republic is a democracy. What is your definition of democracy? Because I’m really tired of seeing this nonsense claim on this site.
One of the classic definitions of democracy is unfettered majority rule (e.g., Athenian democracy), this was contrasted by Classical civic republicanism (e.g., Rome), which had provisions to protect the rights of the minority or the individual.
Now, you may disagree with such a distinction, but it’s not unheard of.
I know what you’re saying but nobody in the real world uses this definition of democracy with respect to the modern political system. Not even the Washington Post.
I’m just imagining some poor rando on his phone in the elevator “Hey buddy, at least we still live in a democracy”
SLAP
He’s made people want to overturn a legitimate election.
Wake me when Trump tires to pack the Supreme Court, you evil bitch.
This, coming from the crowd trying to overturn a legitimate election. I realize we have had evil fuckwits with us always but damn I find the current crop the worst.
If you asked the Nazis what the hell justified taking pregnant women, stripping them naked, dragging them out into the woods and shooting them in the back of the head, they’d explain, very sincerely, that they were acting in self defense.
That’s why we must punch nazis.
Assault of peaceful persons disagreeing with you = self-defense.
Speaking of which I dont hear much about that anymore. I guess the jail sentences put a damper on their self-defense plans.
You don’t hear much about it because the TV people decided to stop promoting them and the cops stopped enabling them. They’re still running around. They laid siege to a recent speech by Jordan Peterson chanting things like “lock them in and burn it down” while pounding on the windows.
I dont remember who said it but my favorite comment about them was “Nothing says not a nazi like masked people running around streets in Germany and smashing windows.”
That was when the germans had the G8? meeting. Oh, and one woman read some of Hitler’s speeches to the protesters without telling them who it was and the crowd went wild with cheers. I bet someone could pull that off here as well.
No bet; Mussolini was a communist who became a syndicalist.
Antifa is an alliance of syndicalists and communists. They’d adore his rhetoric (once you redact some to the racial and nationalist elements).
I say turn Albright over to the Serbian government as an offering. Let them deal with her in the way they see fit.
The boats! The boats, right?
I know it’s your favorite, but I thought you were saving that for the DEA.
There’s also impalement. That’s pretty balkan, right?
“Time to make the boats.”
“I already made the boats!”
/checks Albright’s latest photos
“We’re going to need a bigger boat”
She makes a lot of claims but gives no examples. As usual the Trump the progs complain about is one that exists only in their minds.
She’s a long-term Clinton ally and directly implemented Herr Clinton’s overseas fiascoes, some of which were designed to distract from his domestic shitshow at the expense of lives.
What exactly has he done that’s exceptionally “undemocratic”?
What a silly question. He thwarted the Will of the People!
Fake news is killing us!
We must rediscover the term “public good,” holding entities like Sinclair and Fox News to account for disseminating outlandish propaganda. Yes, we treasure our First Amendment, but we also treasure our democracy.
Maybe it’s time to bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Certainly it is time to force the F.C.C. to follow the law and fulfill its mandate under our laws to promote diversity of access to the public airwaves. In the end, we must all rededicate ourselves to democracy. Allowing our media to become the province of a few ideological extremists bent on ownership of our airwaves is not just bad for the republic. It could be its end.
It’s about time somebody clamped down on slanted and ideologically biased news, and took FOX and Sinclair off the air, so CNN and MSNBC can bring us the unvarnished truth.
At least they’re telling us how far they’re willing to go to reclaim power.
The “world is at stake” theory works very well for them with
global warmingclimate change. People are more likely to get on board with your totalitarian shit if you convince them that we are teetering on the brink of the literal end of life as we know it.What about all the other media outlets that put out Leftist propaganda and were actually caught colluding with the Democrat Party behind the scenes?
We’ll need to have an organization committed to determining the truth and falsehoods of statements. It should be staffed by public servants who would have no ulterior motives. Perhaps a Department of Truth.
That’s a great idea!
Of course, we’ll have to hire fact-checking professionals from the most reputable and unbiased news organizations like Mother Jones, DailyKos, and the Southern Poverty Law Center.
That is pretty rich coming from that commie rag.
“Yes, we treasure our First Amendment, but we also treasure our democracy.”
The but rule applies. Could they be any more transparent?
No, not to anyone paying attention at least.
You have to kill our republic to save it.
To save the First Amendment we had to kill it!
I’m really surprised that they still want the federal government to exercise more control over the news media with Trump in office.
Throughout all the Obama years, when “progressives” would cheer for expansions of government authority, I would always tell them, “Just because you like the guy in office right now doesn’t mean it’s a great idea to give the government this much authority. Sooner or later, someone you don’t like will end up in that office. Maybe in 10 years, maybe in 20 years, maybe in 30, but sooner or later, a really bad person will win the presidency, and all those powers will still be there. You have to look farther ahead than just the Obama presidency.”
They didn’t usually heed my words; they’d usually insist that we’re a 21st century democracy and tyranny is no longer a risk. I was so hopeful that Trump’s election would make them remember my advice and reconsider their previous positions, but I guess not. They just double down on the big government bullshit.
Useful idiots have the memory of a goldfish.
Speaking of poor memories, Google’s doodle today is Maya Angelou, who they refer to as Dr Maya Angelou. One slight problem, she didn’t even hold a bachelor’s degree. Those doctorates are honorary.
Her story, without the embellishment, would be enough. Successful career and longtime professor at Wake Forest, but no. Gotta add that credentialism on there.
*crickets* on Google doodle for Easter Sunday…
My wife noticed that Roku, which often changes the default background to something seasonal or occasional, didn’t have anything for Easter either.
*finds fainting couch*
Its not that big of a deal, but it is interesting to note the subtle ways in which our culture has shifted.
Do you want more culture war? Because this is how you get more culture war.
Maya Angelou, calypso singer
The doodle is just a vehicle for corporate virtue signaling. As such, it is at best a meaningless exercise.
Well they assume that if they get their way, they’ll be able to tip the scales permanently in their favor and never be out of power again. North Korea is their model of “good government”.
The left has really let the mask drop with Trump. In the past we could depend on the left to go all First Amendment absolutist and anti-war and anti-surveillance state with a Republican in the White House but this time things are different.
I know!
Initially it was a shock, but now, I just make more popcorn.
They have always been closet commies. I am not sure why they think it is ok to kick the closet door off now. There are too many people alive today that didn’t see the USSR I suppose. Still, there are plenty of examples around today. Cuba and Venezuela come to mind. I honestly dont know what the appeal is.
Free shit on somebody else’s dime?
People really believe that other than North Korea the united states is just as bad as those countries just in different ways. There was song that for weeks was 1# in the country talking about how great Havana is.
Since when? The left haven’t been First Amendment absolutist in decades. PMRC, V-Chip, FEPA, Campaign Finance Reform, etc.
Well I mean they used to pretend but not anymore.
a “Republican” in the White House
The Left would have been so much better with a real Republican in the White House.
They certainly would be getting their dicks sucked, I am certain of that.
How so?
The sarc tag was missing.
Republicans have been “slow” Democrats since the 1950s thereabouts.
That’s the thing. When the sitting Republican President’s trade policy is word-for-word a 60’s-70’s Labor “Hard-Hat” Democrat platform, the progressive wing of the Left can focus on more radical change.
Thanks for shifting that Overton window, big guy.
My wife said it best: When you are trying to decide if government should have some power think about that power in the hands of the most depraved person imaginable because sooner or later that power is going to be in the hands of the most depraved person imaginable.
That was the premise of our founding fathers, most of them anyway. Abandon it at our peril.
The underlying point of many of the “stories” in the news media… isn’t really about the “story” – its about the nature of the media-industry itself.
it seems like half the time, what they’re really saying is, “Help, a combination of the Internet and Cable is killing our business model: we need you, our last, barely profitable audience, to hate and distrust everyone but us”
its why the WaPo and NYT are nearly-constantly griping about Facebook, Youtube, Fox news, Russian “fake news”, etc. The entire Meta-Story undergirding everything they publish is the utter terror of the fact that they have lost 2/3 of their entire industry-revenue in the last ~15 years, and they can only survive by constantly screeching for attention and accusing everyone “not them” of being enemies and liars and not to be trusted.
OT: Am watching the Flint PD documentary as recommended by some Glibs here.
Just watched a room full of Flint cops circle jerk to the Castile shooting. What is wrong with them? The NRA made a major mistake on that one.
The NRA got stomped 25 years ago with their “jack booted thugs” comments. They’re not going to repeat the same mistake. Unfortunately.
“The NRA made a major mistake on that one”
That episode demonstrated everything that is wrong with the NRA; their cop-sucking overrode their mission statement as a 2A civil liberties organization.
FTFY
OT: If “progressives” believe that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to corporations, what’s their reasoning for allowing news corporations to say whatever they want? The free press clause is in the First Amendment, and if that only applies to individuals, it seems like the only news permitted should be someone hand-pressing newspapers in the garage or standing on a milk crate on the sidewalk yelling.
Oh, feature, not bug.
This is the political equivalent of the crowds of little commies and fascists smashing windows and setting dumpsters on fire screaming down conservative speakers on campuses. Only the left is allowed to talk. It is for the same reason that communist countries are single party entities. They know very well that if people are given a choice they wont choose the commies or buy their bullshit. As far as I am concerned lying or shutting up your opponent is a full throated admission that they dont have a case worth making.
Actually, most would be just fine with government issuing journalist licenses.
I would just like to add that assessors are full of shit when it comes to property taxes. 50% over what I actually paid 2 months after closing – bullshit.
My mother owned and operated a mortgage banking business for almost 40 years. She had something like this hung up in her office:
Perfect.