Hello and welcome back to “Pie ponders”, in which Pie – that is me, for those who are situationally unaware – raises questions on various topics of great importance. Today, we talk about definitions and their role in politics.
What is glibertarianism, as a doctrine? Let me drop some definitions on you, as the self-appointed arbiter of all things glib for today. Well it is the perfect political idea that leads to liberty, universal happiness, a better world where all the men are thicc and all the women can deadlift 800 pounds. In this utopia everyone knows wine is better than beer, scotch is better than bourbon and the NBA is the best sports league in the US. Anything else, well that is not real glibertarianism. Don’t @ me, as the kids say these days on the twits.
I noticed a real problem with definitions in current debates on that most marvelous of mediums, the internet. Whenever something looks bad, well that is not the real deal. See socialism. While this may be seen as a version of the true Scotsman fallacy, I am not sure it is quite the same.
Being a Scotsman, you see, can have some measurable definition- was one born in Scotland would be a start? On the other hand, one can claim any ideology one wants, without having to suffer through haggis and bagpipe music, and very often it can indeed be the case that X is not a true liberal/conservative, but just claims to be. For the actual ideology, we need to see if we can define things to see what is what, and then to measure the individual, preferably by the walk they walk as opposed to the talk they talk. Talking is exceedingly easy, after all.
All failures of socialism were, off course, not true socialism. Well, socialism needs to have a clear definition to see what is and is not true. And this definition, like all definitions in politics, needs to respect some ground rules.
Let us start with Wikipedia:
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership and workers’ self-management of the means of production[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective or cooperative ownership, or to citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them
These are the alleged goals of socialism, while implementation takes a variety of forms, mostly authoritarian and disastrous in outcome. To go around the issue of the bear in the room, internet socialist change the definition in an idiotic manner and say socialism is some sort of perfectly just, utopian, classless society where everyone is happy. This is a neat little trick, if you define an ideology as an ideal outcome, whenever it fails, well it was not the real one.
One rule of defining ideology should be that you cannot define it as outcome, but as the path to reach the outcome. Outcome is not guaranteed. Outcome is what is expected and needs to be proven. So you say we do socialism like this and it leads to that. If the result is an authoritarian hellhole, it does not mean it was not real socialism, it means socialism just does not lead to what proponents say it leads to. Critics of communism, on both left and right, said before it was implemented the very first time that it will lead to dystopian authoritarianism. And they were right. Which means communism is a bad ideology, not that the USSR was not real communism.
Certainly, one can very well claim their own personal flavor of socialism will not lead to all that. But since every attempt failed, it takes a bit of a burden of proof that a slight variation will succeed. Every attempt under the umbrella of socialism failed, and one can easily find an infinity of minor variations that are claimed different from any other minor variations attempted. Why, beyond empty claims and wishful thinking, will this variation succeed? This time the right people will be in charge is not acceptable, because that is, again, an outcome that cannot be guaranteed. I think we are at the point where we can safely say socialism failed and ignore minor variations which keep the fundamentals the same, as the fundamentals are rotten.
The criticism of socialism is based on incompatibility with human nature, not due to minor flaws in minor variations. If, for example, there can be no functioning economy without property – no way to allocate resources, establish prices as has been shown long ago – no minor variation of property-less ideologies will help. Because the core is the problem, not the “implementation.”
Let us take a look at another definition.
Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of sexes.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish educational and professional opportunities for women that are equal to those for men.
This seems a straightforward definition, with some goals that different between flavors and may or may not be achieved. On the other hand, internet feminist define feminism as „equal rights for men and women” in order to say that people who do not consider themselves feminists are against equal rights. This is again a type of definition I oppose. You cannot define an ideology as abstract concept.
Feminism is a loose group of ideologies who claim to strive for what they believe to be equality. That does not mean that is what they actually want, just what they say they want. It does not mean it is what they will actually achieve. It does not mean there are no other ways to achieve equality besides feminism. As such, it does not mean that those who think there is a better way are against equality. Off course, inside feminism there are also multiple subcategories, being various waves, attitudes (to men, government, trans, sex work etc etc etc) or simply opinions.
Now that we can be somewhat more honest about definitions, we should ask ourselves how useful are they? Because one of the key words in both definitions above is “range”, which means those two labels cover a whole range of movements. So are they of any use? Do we need to break them down into subsets or can we use the whole as a guideline? And if we break down enough, do we not get to individual opinions and decide to forgo labels and focus on the individual? Off course not, that is crazy talk. And humans like to categorize things, to put them in boxes and apply labels. In the end, we can only address an ideology by the common underlying paradigm of all variations.
Wait Pie, but if labels may not be of use and people keep using them, that may lead to a total shitshow! Quite astute, dear reader, but fortunately, looking at the world, things somehow seem to have worked out perfectly, so no worries. Libertarianism in general has an even bigger problem as there is less than the usual amount of groupthink, the labels are even more unworkable. So what is the solution? Personally, I am going to go with get drunk and ignore all this. If you have a better plan, do tell.
Comments
185 responses to “This is not real glibertarianism: the importance of definitions in politics”
Probably not the most appropriate new years post bu then again depends on drunk levels
Give me a minute. I just got off work and I’m trying to catch up.
It’s always time to point out the stupidity of collectivists, Pie.
Huh. That should have been a reply.
An Nou Fericit, Pie!
Thanks very same to you
It must be New Year’s Eve. Nobody’s here.
And labels are just tokens. I have a sister-in-law who’s quite intelligent and astute, except when it comes to U.S. politics in particular. Then she’s just a lefty rage monkey. It’s quite depressing, actually.
Speaking of depressing: one of my closest cousins in Normandy, a man who I’ve been visiting for 22 years, died Saturday morning. Got up to use the toilet, did his business, collapsed.
**HEAVY SIGH**
Sorry to hear that. Found out a friend from High School who survived multiple tours in the mid east as a marine is going to lose one leg below the knee. He fell at work last year and had a serious spiral fracture; 9 months later and he’s in as much or more pain as right after the injury, still can’t walk on it and has decided after talking to multiple doctor’s his best option is going bionic.
It’s kind of depressing, but also kind of hopeful. I mean (to keep this on topic) if we were in a socialist shit hole he’d be looking at finding a table leg to staple to his knee, but thanks to capitalism he’ll have an appendage that will function better than what he currently has. Dunno how close modern prosthetics are to duplicating the functionality of a real foot, but…
he’ll have an appendage that will function better
Insert Beavis and Butthead giggling.
It’ll be awkward when all the great advances in prosthesis are coming out of labs producing next-gen sexbots. Agreed tho re: hopeful.
Sorry to hear about your cousin, BEAM.
Please tell your buddy to do something as cool as Bill Veeck Jr. (another jarhead)
Maybe now you’d have it fitted out with a batter and a vape juice container?
Given the number of ashtray fires I’ve seen, maybe putting it in your wooden leg isn’t a bright idea.
Sorry to hear that
Sorry, man. That sucks. Condolences.
Thanks, folks. He leaves behind a wife and several younger brothers (though none of them are spring chickens). He was 94 when he died. I managed to see him for two half-days back in October before going on to Spain. He was still reasonably happy and of generous spirit, although life’s toll on his body was really starting to add up.
He worked with the Underground in Normandy during WWII and after the war emigrated to western Canada, where he worked and lived for 16 years before returning to France. He had some amazing (and occasionally hair-curling) stories to tell. They don’t make ’em like him anymore. Every time he’d tell me about his life, I ended up reflecting on how much my generation and after are just a bunch of whingeing wimps.
Sorry to hear, BEAM. My Mom passed this year, and it was rough. Your cousin sounds like he was one of a kind.
And yeah, there was a point a few years ago where I got sick of hearing “Greatest generation”, but events over the past few years make me think they might have been on to something.
“Equality” is another term that begs definition. Especially because, like “socialism,” it has a rather… fluid meaning.
Yes but in any meaning one can immagine it is misused
Get up with the times old man. “Equality” is out. “Equity” is preferred now.
The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.
Insofar as our collectivist friends twist and bend definitions to defend the atrocious outcomes of the implementation of their beliefs, they also twist and bend definitions to attack others. For instance, they refer to my legions of orphan employees as ‘child slaves’ when in reality they are quite happy working for minimum wage in my coal mines.
Minimum wage? I did not know ypu were duch a softie
Goddamn phone. And I am yet to have my first drink. Except for the breakfast beer
Happy New Year, Pie. I’m a few hours away from my first beer.
Started with the hard liquor I see
That would depend on G’s definition of “minimum.” I think it refers to his orphans’ heights.
*cold stare*
*warm gaze*
Never have you heard so many truth bombs in one short sentance…
Ha-ha! That’s funny you say that; my original retort before changing it to my Swiss inspired one was: “I’ve never seen so many untruths in one short sentence.”
For
the recordargument’s sake:Beer > Wine
Rye > Bourbon > Scotch
MLB>NHL>NFL>NCAA everything>Minor League baseball>High school sports>Some leagues I’m forgetting>MLS>NBA
Minot quibbles, but NBA is in the correct place.
Hey! You leave Minot out of this!
Aaaah, Magic City! I usually zip through there once or twice a year when I’m out hunting in western NoDak.
A very accurate and scientific travel guide
You need to let me know next time you’re traveling down Highway 2 so I can abuse you in person.
And don’t tell me you take 52 up there. That’s lame.
Dude, we usually take 83 straight north out of Bismark.
On the way home we will sometimes road hunt back along 83. But 2 doesn’t go anywhere worthwhile.
(We have friends in New Town, so that is where we will base our late season hunt around.
But 2 doesn’t go anywhere worthwhile.
MLB is invalid for non americans. I like a good rye but no way it is anywhere but bellow a good Islay malt.
The best rye i ever had was sazerac 18 year old
The best rye i ever had was sazerac 18 year old
I have some Alberta Premium Dark Horse that would like a word. Not to mention that bottle of Danfield’s 21-year-old that I’ve got tucked away.
Sadly, the Danfield’s has been discontinued. {insert disconsolate face here}
High West Rendezvous Rye would like to make a bet with you.
High West Midwinter’s Night Dram. Rendezvous rye finished in port barrels.
So what do they do with the Starboard barrels?
UCS, I feel people need to be more stern with you.
I’m glad I managed to bring something to the Fore.
I’m bowing out of this discussion.
I blame heavy metal contamination in the environment from the communist days.
This is what decades of communism does to people.
There is a reason the NBA finals were on tape delay into the 80s.
*Freedom Intensifies*
North korea is one year away from paradise. 2019 is the year for them i feel it
Nork escapes try AMERICAN FOOD is one of my favorite genre of video
Those are good. There are also a surprising number of “Asians try American BBQ videos.”
Spoiler alert: they love it.
Regardless of the problem, it is hard to top this solution.
RE: the alt-text on the picture of the German guys: It would be hilarious if someone had the balls to use that as a retort to an antifa tard.
“not real glibertarianism”
Has glibertarian ever actually been defined? I’m not even sure what it is. Libertarianism with more closet Rethuglicans?
Isn’t that one of Glibertarianism’s cardinal strengths — a lack of definition? (Kinda like my abs.)
Abs plural? Congrats!
Hey! I am quite openly Rethuglican!
Hello i just defined it
Your definition has been rejected by the Glibertariat.
No it hasn’t!
You’re just being contrarian. So Glibertypical.
With moar vampires and Trumpkins?
“This is a neat little trick, if you define an ideology as an ideal outcome, whenever it fails, well it was not the real one.”
if(system == utopia):
socialism = True
else :
socialism = False
Scotland ceased to exist with the 1707 Acts of Union. Anyone born after that date in the region formerly known as Scotland is British.
Great Scot! You can hear the Wales of the people, “Irish it wasn’t true.”
The UK is still made up of four distinct regions one being Scotland, you can still be born in Scotland, thus Scottish and a Scotsman, whether it is an independent country or not. Unless you believe that one can’t be Appalachian or a hillbilly since Appalachia was never a country.
But Scotland was a country. And, they have their own flag. Does Appalachia have it’s own flag, smarty?!
I believe they simply hoist an old pair of overalls up the TV antenna outside the doublewide.
They also have a beer, but they don’t have an airline.
So not a country.
The US doesn’t have a flag carrier either. So not a real country?
Correct.
Damn glibs and their consistency!
I don’t know that that’s true. Every time I’ve seen a carrier in the US, it’s had an American flag on it.
Hello? USS Ronald Wasp is a flag Carrier. So yes, a country.
Jeebus, and I haven’t even started drinking yet.
USS Wasp.
This misunderstanding is why they are called ‘Not True Scotsmen’.
Nae True Scotsman.
https://appalachianalliance.wordpress.com/flag-of-appalachia/
*leaps out of way of oncoming pint glasses*
Scotland ceased to exist with the 1707 Acts of Union. Anyone born after that date in the region formerly known as Scotland is British.
Absolutely correct. And never go to The Land Formerly Known As Scotland and say that to anyone living there, unless you no longer value your life.
Enh I used to be that kind of pedant but I’ve since given up and accepted that if Scotland and the rest want to be “countries” who am I to argue.
This is the internet, and this is not a porn site. That means it’s for arguing over petty things!
Eight parts drip-brewed Folgers… one part creamer powder.
Served with a twist of Gilmore 🙁
So started the drinks
3 parts tanqueray 10 one part cinzano extra dry cloves ice and a twist of lemon with a frozen blackberry
Cloves? That’s an intriguing addition. I need to try that. Just drop in a few cloves? Or crush them first?
Just droped them. I am not sure the gave their full flavor
Well, pick them up and try again.
I’m going to pour a Evan Williams over a big ice cube with a splash of Perrier and a dash of lemon juice.
Happy New Year!
Cheers!
Okay, this one has been bugging me. Is there something that causes escaped pigs living in the wild to revert to a furry phenotype, or are there just so many feral hogs of that type already in the wild that the bald pigs escaped from the farm vanish in their gene pool?
…or get eaten by their feral cousins?
Partly I was wondering if there was an epigenetic trait that triggers differently between life in the sty and life in the woods which triggers more extensive hair growth in pigs.
epigenetic trait
You talk like a fag and your shit is all retarded.
It wouldn’t surprise me. I seem to remember that feral dogs develop a common set of traits after a surprisingly few generations (the only one I can remember is that the tail curls up over the back).
And yet generations of feral cats are (on the surface) unchanged.
That’s because housecats are still the same viscious killers as the ones that don’t cohabitate with humans.
What the…? Relax, Poindexter.
Puns, discussions of cuisine, epigenetics, culture, and pedantics are relaxing.
*Paging Tulip. Tulip to the Glib courtesy phone*
Here is the reply from my step-daughter:
Also, FYI: OMWC had a recommendation for you in Nephi’s beer post late last pm/early this am.
Define leggy broads:
http://archive.ph/HTpN4
6, 10 and 12 confirmed as ideal outcome.
I think 12 is tucking.
I have a sneaking suspicion that every chive list has a tucker buried in it, and in a few years, the truth will come out that millions of dudes have been fantasizing about dudes they thought were chicks.
OT: six hours to something that may approximate beef bourguignon. ??
I need some dinner ideas. Anything goes.
Cuy.
PB&J
Black eyed peas, smoked Turkey breast, corn bread, collard greens.
^ This, except sub ham for the turkey. It’s new year’s eve!
I’m in.
Pulled Pork.
Speaking of, what cut is the best to start with for that?
Walmart, ready to go in 5 minutes, add your own marinade
Walmart isn’t a cut of pork.
But they have great pulled pork, or is Wal-Mart beneath you….
I avoid walmart whenever and wherever possible. It gives off a very strong “I don’t belong here” vibe whenever I go inside.
It’s too good for you?
Shoulder, which is often called Butt or Boston Butt. Don’t worry, it’s not ass meat.
Pork shoulder/pork butt. Same thing.
Bostonians have never been known for their intellect or proficiency with anatomy.
Playa is correct here, and mustard based BBQ sauce is the appropriate pairing for the pork.
Wrong. Vinegar based on get the fuck on out of here.
Mustard is itself vinegar based.
No. It may include vinegar as an ingredient, but mustard is mustard seed based. It makes it too thick to be a proper BBQ sauce.
Vinegar is added to the mustard to thin it out, as well as some rosemary, sugar, and other herbs to give it a bit more complexity.
That’d be the butt, Bob.
Stuffed peppers or jalapanos.
Beer brats.
Butter seared chicken over toasted veggies.
This is the first serious suggestion.
I was serious
Yeah, but you answered me, not Playa.
No that directed at you ucs, maybe I should read a poor man’s website
Chicken nuggets and Totinos pizza rolls.
The kids will probably get that.
I’m jumping on the beef bourguignon bandwagon for tomorrow.
Do your shopping and/or prep work now. I wish I had thought of it last night.
I needed mushrooms and pearl onions. I have everything else on hand.
I had to grab some herbs, mushrooms, and carrots this
morningafternoon. And I’m a ditz in the kitchen so it was like another hour before I could walk away and let it cook.Long pork.
Is long pig kosher?
Depends on matrilineal descent?
Mmmmm…long pork a la prog…
Frozen pizza and Busch Light
Isn’t Busch already light?
Kielbasa with kraut and spicy mustard.
Roast pork with roasted long hot peppers on a sub roll topped with provolone and broccoli rabe.
In this utopia everyone knows wine is better than beer, scotch is better than bourbon and the NBA is the best sports league in the US. Anything else, well that is not real glibertarianism. Don’t @ me, as the kids say these days on the twits.
I used to say, “You can’t be *wrong* all the time, either,” but I may have to reconsider.
There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them
How to Win an Argument: leave plenty of wiggle room. In this case, there’s enough wiggle room to drive a herd of elephants through it.
SMDH. You “glibertarians” are just republicans who want to smoke pot. And have buttsex with Mexicans.
Latest advice from a writing coach/amateur political opinionater I casually follow:
“Persist, writers.
Your stories will outlast this peculiar, fucked-up moment in history, but for those stories to outlast, you first gotta write ’em…You can do it. But it won’t be easier. I expect it’ll be harder this year just as it was harder in 2018 — harder than it feels like it should be. But that makes it all the more worth doing. Don’t let your stories be lost to this bullshit. Save them. Write them…I worry for those just starting, just trying to begin — what a difficult time for you to try to start off on a creative path. But it’s vital you do it. We need your voice, your energy, your ideas. It won’t be right out of the gate. That’s hard. But true. And yet you persist.”
I wrote a book in a week in 2018, it wasn’t actually all that hard to do, I just needed to stop the interruptions.
And why would this year be any harder than last? I’m not developing carpal tunnel syndrome or anything.
The use of the word “Persist” leads me to believe that I’ll disagree on what exactly “this bullshit” is.
Endeavour to persevere
That’s an awful lot of words to say exactly nothing.
and that was about 1/3 of the post.
Why would you -casually or otherwise- “follow” a crazy person?
Entertainment. You never know what sort of bizarre shit they’ll do or say next.
He’s a successful fiction writer. And, I’m trying my hand at fiction so I check in on a lot of different writers for tips & insights. This guy usually separates his political posts from his writing posts so I usually just delete his political ones. But I thought this one would bring some amusement to the glibertariat.
What an astounding ponce.
Speaking of ponce; Josh “The Ponceman” Perry
Yo, Yusef; I have already checked the thermostat. My heat pump started making a weird noise when it first turns on. Sort of a rattling sound that seems to smooth out as it runs for a bit, but doesn’t completely disappear.
Is this likely the compressor or the blower/fan? If so is that usually the sort of thing that calls for replacing the unit? The unit is 15+ years old. Mostly I don’t want the guy coming out to take a look to rip me off.
*not an expert* but that sounds like a fan problem.
How cold is it? It sounds like the compressor isn’t returning oil. Does it heat? If it’s a fan then replace it, if compressor change the unit, it’s cheaper
It’s been in the 30s and 40s here. So not super cold. We have the thermostat set at 68. And roger that; if it’s a fan replace it, and if a compressor replace the unit. I’ll check one of the vents shortly when I get home and see if it is blowing warm air.
If the sound goes away, it’s just cold oil, and an old unit
Might be ghosts?
Not sure how you’d narrow this down to only 10.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/12/ten-outrageous-higher-ed-stories-from-2018/
muh voter suppression!
We should make them explain their vote, in a short paragraph, hand-written. Barrel of laughs ensues.
If only there was a form of government that would prevent these idiots from imposing their idiotic worldview on us.
Every 2 yr election cycle in college, articles would come out showing that a bunch of students wanted to vote but either didn’t know they had to register or how to do it. My solution was toss them out of the university if they could be identified. If you can’t figure out the voting process, you have no business being in college.
Once again, not sure how you’d narrow this down to only 20.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/the-20-worst-quotes-of-2018/
I think the Cortez non-veiled threat to subpoena Trump Jr because he annoys her should have been number 1.
I get to watch this play out in real time starting tomorrow!
#FightFor15
The Farrakhan one isn’t fair because I think he’s been saying that exact quote every other day for decades.
Gad Saad is a right winger and his quote was sarcastic. A quite stupid mistake on their part.
That one did seem a little over the top. Who can even tell any more?
Starters
https://glibertarians.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/20181231_205906.jpg
So my wife and I will be in Budapest a year from now. We would like to meet you. Wel not you particularly, but your dining table.
Looks great. Happy New Year!
Nice spread and I dig the tableclothe.
How about the definition of liberalism? Classical? New Deal? JFK/LBJ? NAFTA and Open Borders? Neoliberalism? The post-Cold War US-backed system?
L oh L.
https://adequateman.deadspin.com/what-did-we-get-stuck-in-our-rectums-last-year-1831046610
No Gerbils?
Don’t let your stories be lost to this bullshit.
Don’t let Trump silence you. Regale us with your imaginary struggles against oppression and hate. Tell us all about the Nazi-punching in your head.
College Students Not Mailing Absentee Ballots Because They Don’t Know Where to Buy Stamps
Too dumb to find stamps = too dumb to vote.
I really feel othered by that 2nd paragraph. Not that I care! / small tear.
Reno 911 marathon today. I love this show.
The scavenger hunt was my favorite.
You “glibertarians” are just republicans who want to smoke pot. And have buttsex with Mexicans.
Strictly vaginal. And factory original vaginas; no aftermarket conversions.