You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. -Exodus 20:17
It is interesting to note that the Tenth Commandment and final commandment is the only statute of the Decalogue that is concerned with an internal desire as opposed to an outward action. (Arguably you could claim the first is as well but that is a discussion for another forum) The author of the Ten Commandments, whether you believe it to be God or Moses or someone else entirely, thought purging envy from ones inner being to be a moral imperative worthy to be listed alongside prohibitions on murder, theft and bearing false witness. The reason, I believe, is because envy is a destructive force that left unchecked destroys the envious and wreaks havoc on those around them.
Winston Churchill famously said:
“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”
We Glibs repeat this creed daily in various ways as we comment on the avarice, greed and base human instincts that drive all things political and particularly as we see those vices on full display in the antics of the progressive/socialist left. Envy’s various manifestations can accurately be assumed to be the underpinning passion that motivates left-wing ideology.
But what is envy? I think Kant’s definition is probably the most precise:
“Envy is a propensity to view the well-being of others with distress, even though it does not detract from one’s own. [It is] a reluctance to see our own well-being overshadowed by another’s because the standard we use to see how well off we are is not the intrinsic worth of our own well-being but how it compares with that of others. [Envy] aims, at least in terms of one’s wishes, at destroying others’ good fortune.” (The Metaphysics of Morals 6:459)
It is necessary at this point to distinguish between envy and jealousy as the terms are often confused in common usage. Viewed through the lens of the Stoic passions; delight, lust, fear, and distress; jealousy differs from envy in that jealousy is rooted in fear whereas envy is rooted in distress. Jealousy requires three parties; the subject, the rival and the beloved. Jealousy is the fear of the subject losing the affections of the beloved to the rival. More simply put, it is the fear of losing what we have, or what is within our power to possess, to another. Using the word strictly within the confines of its definition would relegate its application almost entirely to interpersonal relationships. Envy, on the other hand, is a two-party relation consisting only of the subject and the rival. This distress is an irrational contraction on the part of the subject toward the rival. At its core it is the belief that one is inadequate in comparison to another. It is a self-applied judgement. While it could certainly be argued that jealousy has as many roots in distress as it does in fear, it is quite clear that envy is not fear-based as the subject stands to lose nothing to the rival because they do not possess the object in question. It is an irrationality arising solely from comparison. We may say “I’m jealous of my neighbor’s car” but in reality, unless he somehow outcompeted you for it, we are envious rather than jealous as we never were in a position to possess that particular car in the first place.
So we see manifestations of envy everywhere and indeed deal with our own irrational envious impulses hundreds of times daily. Some psychologists differentiate ‘good envy’ (I want my neighbors car so I’ll emulate my neighbors actions in order to obtain one of my own) from ‘bad envy’(I want his specific car or, short of that, I don’t want him to have it). I reject the notion of ‘good envy’ on the grounds that aspiration and emulation are perfectly consistent with rational self-interest and it does not seek to deprive the rival of anything. It is a concept in need of a term of its own. Envy, as I see it, is entirely negative and harmful. It is the irrational impulse to deprive someone else of something they have to thus alleviate one’s own sense of inferiority.
A tranquil heart gives life to the flesh,
I think the analogy of envy as rot is accurate. Once the irrational belief that another needs to be deprived to satisfy our own insecurity manifests itself, it becomes all-consuming, spawning all kinds of other soul-destroying passions. As Walker Percy said, “it consumes and twists our logic until nothing but itself makes sense.” In an attempt to rationalize our irrational passion we must justify our base desire to deprive others in order to feel adequate. We must convince ourselves that the rival somehow deprived us of what is rightfully ours. From this twisted logic we see all the other negative passions grow from the seed of envy; hatred, enmity, greed, anger, malice, vexation, depression, sadness, despondency, and on and on…
Eric Hoffer identified in his seminal work True Believer who is most susceptible to the ravages of envy;
“The weak are not a noble breed. Their sublime deeds of faith, daring, and self-sacrifice usually spring from questionable motives. The weak hate not wickedness but weakness; and one instance of their hatred of weakness is hatred of self. All the passionate pursuits of the weak are in some degree a striving to escape, blur, or disguise an unwanted self.”
Those consumed by envy have somewhere buried deep in their psyche a profound sense of inadequacy. Rather than aspiring to gain through emulation those things they do not possess, whether they be material, relational or moral, they seek to climb above their station on the backs of others, or at the very least drag them down into the mire with them. This sense of inferiority is so profound that the subject must alter their world-view to satisfy it. Sadly these altered world-views have given rise to ideologies which give shelter and comfort to the envious (I’m looking at you Karl Marx).
Again I’ll quote Hoffer;
“A doctrine insulates the devout not only against the realities around them but also against their own selves. The fanatical believer is not conscious of his envy, malice, pettiness and dishonesty. There is a wall of words between his consciousness and his real self.”
So we see myriad praises and excuses for envy dressed up in intellectual and garrulous finery. The subject is constantly reassured that their sense of inadequacy is natural, if not righteous. The moral obligation to combat their own passions is instead transferred to the rival who must be made to pay for their perceived superiority. Put even more simply, the rival is now responsible for the way the subject feels. The implications are terrifying when you couple a doctrine of envy with collectivism. The only acceptable outcome for the collective envious subjects is to see their collective superior rivals brought low and punished for the self-hatred the subject feels. Debasement or annihilation are the only thing that can satisfy the irrational contraction that spawned the ideology.
So what is to be done?
In regard to social-political movements, I have no idea. Envy is a part of the human condition and will rear its ugly head wherever human action transpires. I have little power to change anything other than myself.
I refer once again to the first part of the Psalm above;
We cannot control what is in the heart of others, only what is in our own. I believe this concept is one shared by any worthwhile religion or philosophy. We subdue our passions through logic and morality. We recognize that the inadequacy we feel relative to the rival’s superiority is a logical fallacy. One can only aspire to be the ideal version of themselves and cannot possess the personage of another. We must recognize that envy is a purely destructive force and the first to be destroyed by it is the envious. Beyond logic, we have a moral duty to recognize that envy seeks to justify violations of the natural rights of others:
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. James 3:16
If the source of envy is not recognized for what it is, we find ourselves going down the primrose path from envy to resentment, resentment to hostility and from hostility to action. The end result of unchecked envy is the violation of first principles if not the outright abandonment of them.
In my opinion, the opposite of envy is gratitude. This is no profound revelation yet the application is a constant challenge. When one takes stock of the blessings in their life and values them in the right order, contentedness takes the place of envy.
I write these articles to be instructed more so than to instruct, so perhaps some of you fine Glibs can propose how we might organize (or disorganize) society to combat collective envy?
“Don’t set your mind on things you don’t possess…but count the blessings you actually possess and think how much you would desire them if they weren’t already yours.” –Marcus Aurelius
Comments
247 responses to “Bob Boberson tries to sound intellectual about Envy”
the standard we use to see how well off we are is not the intrinsic worth of our own well-being but how it compares with that of others.
Zuckerberg studied Kant ?
erste!?
Envy/Jealousy are part of the human condition, and what makes us strive to be better, and have stuff. Also, its why any flavor of collectivism wont work.
I think Bob made a good case for aspiration being separate from envy/jealousy.
But aspiration is driven that way.
I don’t agree. Aspiration lacks the ill feelings towards others, that envy displays.
Yeah. Aspiration is inward focused.
More clearly stated than I was able to do.
So when Michael Douglas said ‘greed is good’, he was wrong ?
im Not a philosophy major, but my understanding of greed is taking more than you need, while harming others.
So if you take more than you need (like a prepper), w/o harm….
That’s not greed, because no one was deprived by you taking more
And this is where there’s a slope about “depriving” and the man exacting a cost from the worker for labor for a profit…
I was just thinking that my neighbor’s prepper shed had more cans of black beans than mine… so…. I’m going to help myself
Envy/Jealousy are part of the human condition, and what makes us strive to be better, and have stuff.
Envy=/=ambition
In fact, I’d argue that ambition perverted with pride becomes envy.
Or I could read the rest of the thread where everybody else says the same exact thing.
Or you could just distill normal behavior into “vices” and “virtues”.
Well written and thought out.
I find it unappealing that writing “Jealous” as a reply to someone’s Facebook post celebrating an accomplishment or good fortune is now considered acceptable and even polite.
Don’t be jelly, girl.
Someone needs to go to jelly camp.
Thanks, I appreciate that! That ties into another philosophizing I’d like to do regarding shame/honor culture. There was a time when embracing the worst aspects of our nature was frowned upon.
Just like if some waif with A-cups saw your imgur and made the same comment ?
I don’t have a problem with that. It’s an expression of approbation without sounding pretentious or insincere about your (probably vague and fleeting) happiness for that person. Only so many “You go, girl!”s to go around.
I very rarely give accolades, that way they are more meaningful when I do.
When you post your accomplishments and good fortune on Facebook, you want people to know. So sometimes I want to acknowledge my friends’ accomplishments and good fortune, but I don’t want to put a whole lot of thought into it because there.are.so.many.people.to.praise.
Isn’t there a thumbs up emoji that you can use?
/doesn’t have FB
Yeah, but with some people, I feel I should be somewhat personal about it.
Punish the good so you don’t have to reward the bad.
Great point, I totally agree!!
Good for you!
*stars to peel off gold stars, then throws them in trash*
You’re amazing!
Thank you, Bob. You did a fabulous job.
Thanks, that’s very kind of you! It was actually kinda fun to write and flowed better than some of my other attempted (and abandoned) articles.
Just my experience, but I’ve known more women than men that are “envious” of others. The concept of sour grapes seems to apply to more men then women.
I don’t know about envious, but women do seem to be more jealous, speaking in general terms of course.
That’s something probably more in Q’s wheelhouse but my immediate response is that women on a very biological level have an impulse toward envy because being outcompeted could quite literally leave them out in the cold in a caveman scenario.
That being said put 3 dudes and one woman on an island and I’m pretty sure you’ll see male jealousy/envy burn shit to the ground
That’s how boats get built.
I concur.
If you’re looking to Q for advice, things have gone horribly wrong.
BUT IT’S NOT FAIR!!!
JK good article – still reading…
Bob, had sat down to write on this subject I think I would have conveyed pretty much these ideas but not nearly so well. I’m jealous.
Thanks, I’m really glad you enjoyed it and I’m sure you’d have handled it just as well (if not better). I’m always a little nervous when I write these because I have great respect for the intellects (perverse as they may be) here.
so perhaps some of you fine Glibs can propose how we might organize (or disorganize) society to combat collective envy?
Being a Christian, my belief is that we don’t overcome it in this life. We can redirect our impulses socially to be more or less damaging, but people are corrupted, and every single thing we do is tainted with pride. Trying to get rid of envy, individual or collective, is laughably impossible. See, e.g., new Soviet man.
As an atheist, I agree.
Honestly, it really isn’t a problem for me. I can’t remember ever thinking, “Gawd do I hate that guy for having something I want.” Sloth? Yeah, I got that one. It’s tough to know what really is going on in other people’s heads.
I can’t remember ever thinking, “Gawd do I hate that guy for having something I want.”
I don’t think envy is always so forward. For me it comes as “I could’ve [insert hard work that results in good outcome] twice as well as that person, but [Insert excuse as to why I’ll never do that hard work, usually because its financially risky]”
I wouldn’t consider that envy. That’s arrogance or hubris. If you want something, go earn it. If you don’t, then you really didn’t want it in the first place. As the saying goes, “You can’t will desire.”
Sounds like sloth.
Hard to tell which because trsh wrote, “I could’ve twice as well as that person”. Could’ve done twice as well = sloth and arrogance. I’m assuming that was the missing word.
It was less of a sloth thing, although there’s a tinge of it. I was trying to get across the taking for granted of others’ efforts and difficulties and focusing solely on their results.
Didnt I address that at the top of the thread ?
I wish I had said it before both of you.
I was envious that you said it first, so I decided to steal some of your limelight. ?
I very much agree. I don’t think there is a “solution” that can fundamentally change human nature. I do wonder what changes might happen culturally beyond “damn millennials” that might make people more concious of the fact that personal envy should be struggled against rather than indulged in.
Agreed. However, that doesn’t mean we just give up and so “Oh well, that’s human nature.” That behavior should be called out and confronted. And I don’t mean in a “reeducation camp” sort of way. More on a personal level.
Everyone who complains about “economic inequality” should be made to read this. When Barry O. and Bernie complain that economic inequality is the worst problem we face (well, except for “climate”) what they’re really saying is “Give in to your envy, give me power and I’ll heal you.”
K. Marx agrees with you.
Thank you for the article, unfortunately, I have no idea how to organize society to combat collective envy. All I know I can do is try to not succumb to temptations and be an example to my family, close friends, and hopefully if/when the time comes, my own children.
That’s about all I’ve come up with. I think envy- as-ideology is too appealing to human nature to be overcome by what you said above. Just look at Julius Caesar/Cato the Younger. Cato had all the respect/integrity, Caesar promoted the grain Dole and had all the popular support.
As an aside and somewhat related, I would greatly look forward to a future piece by you on honor/shame culture as you mentioned upthread.
#metoo – very interested in that topic.
I’d be excited to do that. Work is going to pick up for a little bit but I’ll start giving it some thought.
Add me to the list of “please sir, can I have another?”
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey”
But what if it’s a really sexy donkey?
+1 Kinky Kelly
“‘Interspecies erotica,’ fuckoff.”
You thinking Michelle or Barack?
You buy it from him and take it to Tijuana.
And by “it’s” you mean “he’s”?
Despite my abrasive comments, great article, Bob.
Thanks Tres!
Don’t make me think about morality and ethics…
Especially when I’ve got YouJizz open in another window.
Excellent. I agree wholeheartedly, especially the wrap-up regarding the antidote to envy being gratitude.
I also like the distinction between jealousy and envy.
Yeah, I liked that a lot too. I never really gave much thought about the differences between the two, but this piece helped me make sense of it.
Being someone involved in Non-monogamous relationships, it is an important distinction. I’ve faced jealousy, and usually it is out of ear, but rarely had to deal with envy. I also think jealousy is less caustic because is about not wanting to lose something, whereas envy is about wanting to take something.
Politics is institutional envy?
I think you might reasonably describe right politics as being institutional jealousy and left politics being institutional envy.
But I’m also cruising at 32k feet and have been drinking pretty solidly for 3 hours since I’m not driving again until Wed and trying to see how long I can maintain this buzz.
That’s profound, I’ll have to pontificate on that for a while.
Thank you. I’d be interested in seeing someone run with it.
Nice article, Bob. I would be envious of your skill at writing, but I recognize that I possess different skills and am content.
One of those skills is mixing a delicious Moscow Mule. BRB
I’m envious of your Moscow mule! Well not really, I want my own rather than to take yours but alas no vodka available at the moment!
Thanks!
After all the jawing about that drink I finally found some ginger beer at my supermarket and tried one, albeit with lemon juice since I didn’t have any lime and didn’t think to purchase any.
Verdict: I preferred it without the lemon juice. Although it’s possible the lemon juice may be on the verge of spoiling – it had an off taste.
I haven’t tried it with lemon, but I have seen some recipes that call for it. To me, it seems like lime would be a more complimentary flavor. I am partial to Nellie and Joe’s Key West Lime Juice. It has a nice taste, and it’s a few dimes cheaper than RealLime.
Doubt my market offers more than one choice but I’ll keep a look out.
I haven’t cracked a Bible open in decades but FWIW I’m impressed at some of the wisdom that’s in there.
I’ve thought about reading it. I have one laying around here somewhere that I snagged at a library book sale.
What interests me is the historical influence it has had. I always like to have a good understanding of historically significant books or documents, not just take the word of commentators.
It’s so damn long though. Seems like a hard slog.
I think there are books of the Bible that are more accessible than others. I would not recommend reading it in order unless you have uncommon focus.
I was slightly joking. It IS long, although that isn’t a problem so much as it’s being so dense. And I wouldn’t know where to begin otherwise.
What might help is what’s sometimes called a “study Bible.” It’s just a modern translation that’s been annotated to assist present-day readers with bits of historical, cultural and archaeological info pertinent to the text being read. I bought my wife an NIV study Bible a few years ago after she found herself reading various English Lit classics and not having the background in the Bible that she needed to understand some of the allusions and themes. It’s been very helpful for her.
Yeah I figure I would need some help like that.
Well it can’t be worse than Mein Kampf… Absolutely dreadful writing, no logical flow of information whatsoever, and completely devoid of wisdom.
I bought that stupid thing over two years ago if I remember right, and I’m only about 1/3 through it.
Old Testamnet: Read Genisus, Exodus, Ecclesiastes, Job, Psalms, Proverbs.
NT: Gospel of John. Acts. Romans. Then some of the other Episels….
I’m afraid that other than some watered-down Sunday School versions of many of the stories, I never made it past the first couple pages of Genesis in the real thing….
But appreciate the suggestions!
I’d add Revelations to that list. Just so you know how the story ends!
“He fixes the cable?”
Many non-believers write it off as worthless, but it contains a wealth of knowledge. Philosophical and historical.
^This. I’ve always found it sad that people can be so polarized as to not even consider it’s historical and philosophical significance, let alone worth. Growing up as a fundamnetalist I can understand that polarization however.
19th Century British archaeologists made their bones (literally) by reading the OT, figuring out where a city or battle was, and digging. It is an incredibly accurate historical document, maybe the most valuable ever.
It makes a handy owner’s manual.
And great stories, too!
I haven’t read a bible in 20+ years as an agnostic, But I’m thinking about it. I was devout as a teen and it has informed a great deal of my thinking. MikeS is correct.
It is also an interesting factor in looking at just how much historical literature and culture was influenced by it (for obvious reasons) and as society has turned away from it, they need to find a new paradigm to frame the world (ie. Harry Potter). The comparison is extremely stark when you compare the obscure, throwaway references from Shakespeare or Dickens or even common phrases that trace their origins back – and how ignorant the younger generations are to any of this. The UK kept some things a little longer with their mandatory Religious Studies courses, but even those are just skeletal frameworks at this point.
Probably my favorite verse from the whole Good Book.
+1 Wedding verse.
The funny thing is applying that verse to marriage is not necessarily incorrect but sort of a superficial reading. The context was much bigger than just marriage. I agree, awesome verse.
I find that one is a pretty succinct ethos; act justly, love mercy, walk humbly.
Short, simple, and sweet, just the way it should be.
Unfortunately, in my experience, at least 50% of Christian pastors advocate policies for society that reek of envy (though they will explain it away as Christian charity and compassion.
Yeah. I had a preacher alude to the idea that right wing ideas needed to be balanced out by left-wing ideas because ‘charity’. I had a hard time not blurting out “it’s not charity if you give someone else’s money away.”
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Rhywun, if you haven’t dug into Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus, have a look. Marcus was a strong influence on Christian philosophy.
Not at all – never even heard of the latter. This stuff is way outside my wheelhouse but I’m noting it for possible future investigation, thanks.
Excellent, Bob.
“but weakness; and one instance of their hatred of weakness is hatred of self” Hoffer
It took me a long time to like myself, to believe in myself. I was 45-50 years old before I understood that others liked me for myself. Al Franken’s Stuart Smalley played on this (though his character was really creepy, maybe Franken’s real persona). I believe politicians personify this self hatred and try to find the feelings of adequacy by staying in power as old, doddering coots, i.e. Pelosi et al.
When one learns to like oneself there is no need to try to tear down another through insults, like a waiter or sales person as being an inferior.
I can’t stand that.
That, to me, is almost like slavery. A malcontent can abuse the shit out of a service worker because their livelihood depends on it. (yeah, I know they can quit, but still).
Of all of the supposed “injustices” that I see, that’s probably the one that irks me the most; and, I see it a lot from unhappy “wealthy” people.
I’ve known some very gracious wealthy people who treat everyone around them as equals.
I’ve known some who act exactly as you describe. It must be a sad, lonely existence.
To be honest, most wealthy people I know are that way. Good, kind people.
It’s the outliers that stick out in my mind.
I know it’s not prevalent, but it really pissed me off when I see it.
Almost a couple decades ago, in my late 20’s, early 30’s, I used to give a wealthy(ish) friend shit for always buying us drinks and stuff, back when me and the rest of my friends were poor AF. He was just trying to be nice (and he is in fact, one of the “nicest” people I know). But younger, stupider me couldn’t see that. He just dedicated himself earlier than the rest of us – his “wealth” was entirely self-earned. Now I’m him. I like to think.
Ill have the Coor’s Light, and a double-Crown. Kthnxbai
People can pick up the tab if they want or not.
What really sets me off is the treatment of employees. I see it less and less these days (probably because everyone carries an internet connected recording device in their pockets)
But it still happens.
The same people who tee off on low level employees for circumstances they have no control over…. those are the same type of people who beat the shit out of their kids when they have a bad day.
Scum.
Yeah, your comment just tangentially reminded me of something from my past….
I agree with your beef. Those people have probably never been on the other side. And if they have – ugh, that’s even worse.
Worst boner killer ever for me:
In a 3rd world country and a cute American girl I’d met was acting flirty and suggestive. Over the course of a couple days I went from being very interested to repulsed by her based on how she talked to the locals. Condescending, demanding, bitchy. To the point that I would rather continue in what was a rather long streak of celebacy than spend another second around her.
Drink more. Make orphans.
Good instinct.
Thanks, Fourscore. I feel it’s always a struggle to get to that point of self-love and confidence, and you’re absolutely right.
Thanks. I have my own struggles with feeling content and liking myself. Some days I feel like I’m very well adjusted and see myself accurately. Other days I absolutely loathe myself. The days I loathe myself are the days I’m most miserable and most likely to spread that misery around.
I’m truly grateful that I’ve never had much impulse to lust after power so I can feel adequate.
Thanks Bob. This has given me a lot to think about.
BTW, Tulip, I finally had time to make that cake, but the daughter wanted to make a gingerbread house instead. Turned out a bit goofy, but fun to do with the kid. Have you made one of those?
I didn’t read it because I’m half in the bag and intellectual stuff is pretty much lost on me at this point. Did Bob succeed in sounding intellectual?
There are several schools of thought on the matter, each more intellectual than the last.
Superb. The breadth of knowledge and intellect amongst the Glibbies is enough to find hope for the future.
I mean, except for OMWC and Tres, that is.
Tres is Agile Cyborg. True story.
wasps in hoards flygin over the plains to feed the yearning budgies their desired allotment of venomous milk before the SCOTUS vote occurs and once again they put in place another ghost shadow beings come from that dimensions and open their cavernous cunts and spew forth the cosmic sammichies of placation we are all just on some mind trip planet of dos equis and cardboard
That’s much too close to the mark.
It’s the “sammichies of placation” that really sells it.
Makes sense to me…
I just want to take the opportunity to once again mention what an excellent book Meditations is. Aurelius tends to repeat himself, but I’m still very glad I read the whole thing. It has helped me get through some shitty situations.
Awesome. I’m stealing it off my parents bookshelf when I leave this weekend. I’m going to read that and Epictetus too boost my Stoic cred.
Bob, add Cicero to your list. As for Epictetus, there’re a bunch of titles available on Kindle for little or nothing.
Thanks! Will do!
Meditations is a good read. Seneca is also very accessible with many editions available on the intertubz.
The statue of Marcus in the article has an interesting history. It survived the period of the christians melting down thousands of Roman statues because it was attributed to being of Constantine.
That’s cool, I didn’t know that. I was reading the other day about the disagreement between historians about the extent to which M.A. persecuted Christians. If Meditations accurately represents the man it seems incongrous with his worldview. On the other hand, ancient rulers being idiosycratic hardly is a unique phenomenon.
Good article Bob. I appreciate your discussion of the distinction between jealousy and envy.
“A man’s as miserable as he thinks he is.” Seneca
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” A different dead white male.
I can’t keep up with the compliments so I’ll do one last blanket thank you. I’m very humbled with all the praise for the article and very happy that it was enjoyed. It’s the holidays so I’ll indugle in some emoting:
I appreciate this place and all of you very much. It is a truly special thing to be able to discuss ideas and deeply personal sentiments with a group of strangers and be met with thoughtful, compassionate responses.
I appreciate you guys and am very grateful for this site.
I
I, I , I, I…
My poor attempt at a funny aside, I agree 100%. This place, and these people, really is(are) special.
Better than my poor attempt to come up with a witty rejoinder….I just spent 5 minutes failing to find the three stooges “Aye, Aye” bit to post in response.
This really is a special place with lots of great folks. The level of intellectual stimulation I get here, along with the acceptance and bon hommie is amazing. It’s a special corner of the internet
Very fun read. Different way of looking at it than I usually do. Thanks, BB.
This government shutdown is the best. Team Blue can’t give Trump his wall and Trump can’t not get the wall. It’s the irresistible force paradox. Literally. Who’s gonna blink? Unfortunately, government desire to fund itself always overcomes the partisan bickering. I pray this thing lasts at least a few months. A year or two would be even better.
Having it happen during the slow holiday week while no one’s paying attention is genius – however that came about. I seem to remember previous “shut downs” getting a lot more attention and therefore ending practically before they began.
That these “shutdowns” are no longer seen as something that must be avoided at all costs is a good thing, regardless of how it turns out.
That and department heads that don’t seem determined to make the shutdown as painful as possible to ordinary citizens.
Forget your lust for the rich man’s gold
All that you need is in your soul
Truth.
What else did Papa tell you when you was young?
Mr Boberson –
Thank you very much for this – your thoughts kind of ride along with my observations of the petty family politics and gripes I have to hear from people, on what is supposed to be a time of year where gratitude should be practiced.
A friend of mine gave me a copy of Meditations awhile back, and I am now incentivized to pick it back up.
Happy New Year
Jealous of the World https://youtu.be/4midYzDFT5o
Hey
I forgot how jangly that song is. Wish I could write one like that. Now I’m…. Jealous Again https://youtu.be/_A0dLcWzUCo
I didn’t really find room to follow them but that song is one of my favorites from that scene.
I’m envious I didn’t come up with this article.
/sighs.
Good read Bob!
I wonder how much procrastination plays into envy. Some people are just envious because they don’t get around to getting things done and may be perturbed by those who do.
And by ‘getting things done’ I don’t necessarily mean ‘over achievers’ or ‘go-getters’.
Also. The phrase ‘pay your fair share!” came to mind while reading this. It’s another spin on envy I reckon.
Yeah, the line from “envy” to “give me your shit” via the various justifications for that is worth exploring. I think we all see it & Bob did allude to it but… how does it happen?
When 51% of a society is envious of the shit 49% of society has, the 51% votes “give me your shit.” It’s called democracy.
It’s insane. It’s…. Insanely Jealous https://youtu.be/j45sakJOj_E
Yeah, but they dress it up with so much BS to justify it – what kind of brain works like that? I refuse to believe that more than 50% of us are that broken.
Interesting track, BTW. … Oh, Robyn Hitchcock? I didn’t know that. I only know his later stuff.
So what is the word for admiring someone else’s possession and wishing it were your own, without wanting to deprive him of it? I’m “envious” of friends with good marriages and children, but no way in hell do I want to take on their wives and children as my responsibility. I take much more pleasure in my friends having the things I want than I would their being deprived. “Admiration” doesn’t quite cut it—I admire many people, but have no interest in the traits for which I admire them. I don’t want to paint, or sing, or write for a living. I can feel lustful toward women without wanting to take on the burden their boyfriends or husbands endure. My envy would immediately degenerate into jealousy. And then heavy drinking. Which I do already. But, like, purposeful drinking. Which seems awful. My heavy drinking is strictly recreational.
Two anecdotes come to mind: I had an English friend who sneered at the idea of “keeping up with the Joneses,” despite (or probably because of) his having grown up among “the Joneses.” He wrote it off as hopelessly bourgeois. He was a thoroughgoing socialist toff. And I say this as someone who, for years, envied him in a sickly, I-wish-he-were-dead way. I wanted to be him, down to his roots. Down to his very Englishness. I was envious of his nationality, I felt so declasse. And having been looked down on as his American charity case, I hated him. I wanted him to have none of it.
Another: my brother used to repeat some poll he’d heard from Michael Moore or whatever: “Half of Americans think they’ll be in the wealthiest 10% within their lives.” He said it as a sneer against the dumbass Republicans, who “vote against their own self-interest.” They vote to keep the wealthiest wealthy, and themselves poor. If only those poor blessed hearts knew better.
I envy whoever can work out what I was going for in sharing this. I wish I could. And I wish you couldn’t, you asshole.
LOL you’re drinking recreationally now, aren’t you? Me too.
Oh goodness, yes.
#metoo
Oh yeah, he’s drunk. I recognize it very well. Which means I can also appreciate his drunken philosophizing.
I hated him so much. So much. No, imitation and flattery be damned, I hated him for his very being. His being informed my insecurity. But that’s the emptiness of envy, isn’t it? At some point, either you murder or you despair. And I despair.
*theater applause*
“I wanted to be him, down to his roots. Down to his very Englishness. I was envious of his nationality, I felt so declasse. ”
Well, you are a Scottish groundskeeper.
There you go. Otherwise, you just hate yourself in general.
It really like the philosophy discussion, but most of what I was going to say has been said already. I’m a bit late to the thread.
OT: does anyone have any idea of how to value a Lane cedar chest. I’m looking at one tomorrow from a Craigslist add. It’s oak with a well used lid with a lot os scratches on it. I’m fine with sanding and refinishing the top. Guy is asking 125 but he would take 100$ for it. Does this sound like a good deal as it did to me.
Link the craigslist ad.
Can you get the serial number? Should be on the underside of the chest.
My wife had her chest (1930 something, originally from her mom) refinished & restored (rotted boards). It was stunning beautiful. She gifted it to her grand niece.
https://www.lanefurniture.com/about/frequently-asked-questions.html#no18
This link sent me down the memory lane of watching Price Is Right and all the luxe furniture they gave away by companies that either don’t exist any more or are on life support.
Can I hear more about your wife’s chest?
?
This looks relatively new,but I’ll see tomorrow.
It’s from maybe like 1948 to maybe 1960. In a retail shop out here in LA, it would sell for at least $250+.
Hard to tell from the photos, but assuming it’s structurally sound, it’s worth it. Also, find out if the seller has the lock mechanism. Also, there could be a matching dresser, nightstands, and maybe a makeup table. And a mirror. And a headboard/footboard.
I’ll look into it. I’m not in the market, but the room it’s goin into is a guest room with nothing but a bed. If I can get the set for cheap I might consider it.
Thanks for the input.
Here is the ad.
https://allentown.craigslist.org/fuo/d/walnutport-cedar-chest/6768738155.html
It’s pretty plain on the outside, but looks beautiful on the inside. I have no idea on the valuation of such pieces, but I’d pay $100 for it, provided it checks out in person.
$100 is a very reasonable price.
That’s what I thought. It’s worth 100$ to me.
Thanks for your input all.
Since Im proud of my work….
Tres Cool on December 27, 2018 at 10:10 pm
wasps in hoards flygin over the plains to feed the yearning budgies their desired allotment of venomous milk before the SCOTUS vote occurs and once again they put in place another ghost shadow beings come from that dimensions and open their cavernous cunts and spew forth the cosmic sammichies of placation we are all just on some mind trip planet of dos equis and cardboard
Needs more space penises, agile
Penii were strongly implied.
Sammiches coming from cavernous cunts doesn’t sound very appetizing, even if they are tuna fish sammiches.
“even if”?
Well, it at least fits with the theme. If you want to be pedant about it, maybe we could go with kippered herring sammiches.
Ham or cappicola would be completely unacceptable.
But brother don’t you know, brother don’t you know?
That jealousy is a curse, much worse is the silence
Strange, you’re moving out of range
https://youtu.be/bvjsAIpNy6I
Love that song – one of you degenerates hooked me on that.
Thank you Bob. A great post which has attracted excellent comments.
Envy is the most productive of the deadly sins.
I’m envious of this band. I wish this was my shoegaze band. They have it all. Goofy hats. Long hair. Australian. Chick bassist. Chick guitarist. Offset Fender guitars. Bright, poppy, jangly. Totes jelly!
https://youtu.be/Zsm7kEI17YQ
Niiiiice. Aussie shoegaze is some of my favorite shoegaze.
Yeah buddy. How bout some Swedish shoegaze? https://youtu.be/nTHimNWxF9Y
I am seriously going to ask that punker barista at my local coffee shop to play bass in my band.
Ha I have that – I bet you linked it last year.
Have some Swedish jangle.
Whoa! Thanks for linking. If you don’t already, you should stream DKFM https://decayfm.com/
That looks right up my alley – thanks!
goddamnit the lakers lost like morons.
About the final question. I believe there is no answer, like in most of the questions that plague libertarians
No LeBron, no Rondo; no dice.
Why are you a Lakers fan?
For the same reason there are Americans who are fans of Chelsea, Tottenham, or Man U? Or American fans of the Yomiuri Giants or Nippon Ham Fighters.
Sports!
Pick the best team and be a fan? I don’t get that at all.
Best teams get publicity, even in foreign countries. Marketing works. Lakers are the biggest brand in NBA basketball. Plus, Vlade Divac was an international sensation.
I was able to pick any team to be fan of when I moved here. The Tokyoites all look down on people from Saitama (just north of Tokyo) so I became a Seibu Lions fan.
Go Rions!
Japanese Go Lion!
There’s a railway museum in Saitama that I’ve been wanting to go to.
Go Carolina Mudcats!
Now you’re just making shit up.
How about the Rizing Zephyr Fukuoka or Earth Friends Tokyo Z?
Speaking of Fukuoka, Fucku Hawks. There was a foreigner that was threatening Sadaharu Oh’s single season homerun record. Oh was the Hawks manager at the time and they walked the guy everytime he came up in the final series of the season. They walked him even when it was obviously stupid in the context of the score. Pure asshole move.
Hey ladies in the place, I’m callin’ out to ya
There never was a city kid truer and bluer
There’s more to me than you’ll ever know
And I’ve got more hits than Sadaharu Oh
https://youtu.be/Naf5uJYGoiU
Tottenham have some magical attraction that I don’t quite get for a team that is nowhere near as successful as the usual suspects.
/go Liverpool – or maybe don’t get TOO successful
You just like the imagery that comes with “hotspurs”.
I explained this before.
In the 90s everyone was a bulls fan and capitalism brought bulls hats to Romania. Everyone was wearing one. A buddy of mine and I were looking for anything but a bulls cap to be different. He found a knicks one I found a lakers one. So that’s how it started. Later on became Kobe fan which cemented things
So you were ignorant that the Lakers are the evil empire. Fair enough. Now that you know that, what’s your excuse.
*Kobe rivals Jordan in my book as a GOAT candidate, though the top is Wilt.
Lonzo will soon put all that talk to rest
Were you a sportsball fan when Lou Alcinder was with the bucks? I have trouble keeping track of all you old folks.
My issue with GOAT talk in any sport is that different eras different games can’t compare really
How dominant were they in their own era? How popular was the sport? How close was the next guy in talent of the same era?
Yeah, it’s kind of pointless. With sprinters, you just look at the clock. There’s no doubt Bolt is the GOAT.
What? Celtics are evil, Lakers are good.
/grew up in ‘80s west coast
Celtic Pride.
I agree. Fuck the celtics
’50s Lakers, Mikan (Mr Basketball), Pollard, Mikkelson, Whitey Skoog. What’s not to like. Saw those guys play when I was about 13.
Wilt
Jordan
Kareem
Kobe
LeBron
Magic
Forgot BowWow.
No Bird? You crazy.
Bird is in a group of 10-15 dudes that could all make a claim for #7-10
Shaq
Oscar Robertson
Bird
Bill Russel
Karl Malone
The Admiral
Gervin
Tim Duncan
Pippin
Iverson
Yadda
Yadda
Yadda
“About 40% of Japanese teens say sex education at school is useless: survey”
Kids these days…
“Of the total, 66.7 percent had masturbated, with 74.8 percent of them using smartphones to access explicit content and 8.8 percent simply fantasizing.”
Link: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/12/27/national/40-japanese-teens-say-sex-education-school-useless-survey/#.XCW8gGKRWEc
Rote memorization and cramming?
Clamming?
Bullshit, 100% masturbated, only 66.7% admitted to it.
no, 66.7% masturbated while taking the survey
I want to do one more cartoon before the end of the year, but I lost my days off this week, Saturday after work will really be the lynchpin if I can make that happen, depending on what is scheduled for the last day of the year.
Yeah? You are going to have a hard time topping the grinning Biden groping Gulag Barbie.
Jordan Peterson really is a phenomena.
Doubt many will see this, but several people were talking about reading Epictitus(discourses, I assume), and Marcus Aurelius (particularly meditations). I’ll make 2-3 suggestions as someone who just finished reading both a week or so back. Meditations is just random thoughts, kind of a journal. It’s relatively easy reading, but it won’t give you a structured look at stoicism. If you only have time for one book, read Discourses. If you don’t even have time for that, read only the Enchiridion, it is a cliff notes version of the philosophy.
I apologize Bob. I have been looking forward to this article since you first mentioned it and I wasn’t around when you published.
I enjoyed it very much. I am tempted to say this is one of if not the best article published yet. Very well done.
I would add that there is a strong element of hate to envy, which is why socialists are so damned hateful.
People who wonder how we ever end up with mass graves should read this article.