Recently my Glib friends were kind enough to publish an article I had written wherein I laid out a case that there is empirical evidence of the existence of natural rights. I contend that natural laws existing independent of man govern both human society and the natural world. We don’t invent these laws, we discover them. When we attempt to concoct laws to better suit ourselves it has invariably resulted in failure of our attempts to shape the world around us.
Today we can successfully manipulate the natural world beyond the wildest dreams of our ancestors. Because we have discovered many of the laws that govern nature people from even one generation past would be in awe or disbelief of the world we live in today. Our understanding of the natural laws governing chemistry and adherence to them has given us ever increasingly sophisticated and useful metals, plastics, medicines, fuels, and building materials. Combining that with our understanding of physics allows us to create ever more useful machinery for manufacture, transportation, communication and tools for discovery or deeper understanding of natural law. They have allowed us to discover whole worlds, both macro and micro that mankind never knew existed. Using that deeper understanding increases our ability to lengthen our own lives and improve the quality of that life. It enables us to vastly improve our ability to produce food and simultaneously improve our environment.
These applied sciences are not a God’s eye view of the universe. They are analogies. Underlying these sciences is mathematics which is also a human invention and an analogy. Underlying the mathematics of applied science are mathematical constants. These constants may be expressed mathematically but they themselves are not analogies. They are descriptions of the behavior of the natural world as it exists independent of man.
If we try to invent our own, such as changing the gravitational constant to G/2 instead of G to save ourselves a great deal of effort and expense in the construction of rocket ships, our rocket ships will fail disastrously. Using any number other than G will result in failure. From this we can infer that a gravitational relationship exists. We simply express it as G. It is not subject to our whims. It existed before humankind, it exists now and it will exist long after we are gone. The universe makes the rules, we do not.
In the same way that discovering and adhering to the laws of physics gives us success in manipulating the natural world, discovering and adhering to the laws of economics and human nature gives us success in social endeavors. Human nature is a product of evolution, not something we concocted. Any system we devise is subject to the body of natural law. Numerous efforts to change human nature have been tried in order to salvage some preferred but failing system and like The Good Ship G/2, all have failed disastrously. Our successes have been the result of observing human nature and creating a system to mesh with it. Our most notable failures have been the result of working the other way about. From this we can infer that human nature exists independent of our desires, it is not ours to invent.
By far the most successful political system in human history is the one currently in effect in the United States, and not just by a little bit. The success has been so spectacular as to almost defy description. It has allowed individuals, both natives and foreign born immigrants, to contribute more to humankind than all of the systems in history combined. It has created more wealth in a mere hundred years than all of humanity throughout history. Nearly everything that makes the modern world what it is was conceived or popularized by people in the United States.
This tells us that the premises that underlie that system are more comport with the natural order of things than any other system. The corner stone of that system is the premise that all people inherently and equally possess inalienable rights. Inalienable in that those rights exist as a product of our humanity. They cannot be granted or taken away. They are an integral part of every person. Building this system from the bottom up resting on that premise is the key to that system’s success. From this we can infer without doubt that inalienable rights are naturally occurring.
The key to other system’s failures is ignoring natural law and attempting to build the system from the top down, something that can no more result in success than attempting to levitate and build a house from the roof down. Starting with a preferred ideal outcome, ignoring simple truths and then inventing a system to achieve that outcome does not work. It does not work in politics or economics any more than it works in science. It is remarkable to me how far afield from natural law some systems go. We only have to miss one or two natural laws for the system to collapse, yet some systems ignore even stark truths, such as that happiness is better than sorrow, that strength is better than weakness, that wealth is better than poverty, that independence is better than dependence, that health is better than sickness, that success is better than failure, that good is better than evil, and of course that natural rights even exist.
Being of the mind that ends justify the means, that a few eggs have to be broken to make an omelet, leads one to commit all sorts of evil. Evil does not result in good. Wishes do not inform reality. That is farcical thinking, pure and simple, akin to magical spells. Recognizing that inalienable rights are naturally existing and respecting them results in success. Violating inalienable rights results in failure. Building up from sound principle gives us a sound house. Attempting to build on air from the roof down gives us a pile of rubble.
*I am not attempting to argue the origin of natural rights. That is an argument that cannot be resolved. My attempt is to give a sound argument that they exist not as an invention of man but are naturally occurring. Those that argue that they are in invention of man are doing so to justify hand waiving them away. As for the arguments over the origin, God or nature, I don’t care. It is good enough for me that both sides agree that they do in fact exist.
Using any number other than G will result in failure. That is a most apt metaphor.
Less poetic, but another notion that proves design failure is when the outcomes of the new law are even worse than the original supposed evils to have been cured. But the sad thing is that we seldom get that sort of full accounting, so ideas like rent control and gun control are popular even though the downsides are widely known and repeatedly proven.
This is similar to the flawed-but-best notions about representative republics, private capital, property rights, and personal rights; all those notions have down-sides; it’s just that all other systems have more/worse downsides.
…all those notions have down-sides; it’s just that all other systems have more/worse downsides
A thousand times this. It frustrates me no end when people go on and on about the faults of capitalism only to turn around and suggest socialism as a solution. Capitalism isn’t perfect, no system is perfect, and the pursuit of perfection will always be frustrated and often lead to worse outcomes. So many people are eager to create heaven on earth, and in the pursuit end up creating hell instead.
Envy is the foundation of socialism. Envy is a big problem. I think it was RC who said once that what other people have in no way affects his ability to create wealth.
Personally I think lack of envy is the first step on the road to libertarianism.
Envy can drive people to work hard to acquire things.
Or it can drive people to steal things.
One of those is compatible with libertarianism. One is not.
This is why I contend Sloth is the driving deadly sin of Socialism. They want what other peope have, but don’t want to put in the work required to have it.
Very accurate, but I want to point out that they are willing to work real hard to deny others things they lack or to take away what others have… They just don’t want to have to work for what they get…
I have lamented the demise of the Tenth Commandment here in the past. Envy is the root of much evil and is a for-real named sin to all you Jews and Christians.
I’ve said before many times that I struggle with envy. However, part of my problem is that I work hard to acquire those things I want, but bad choices I have made in the past hinder any progress. This is all my fault, so I work hard to stifle resentment. THEY (whoever THEY is) obviously made better choices.
I don’t want the things other people have; I want to buy my own.
I certainly don’t want to take away what they have. I don’t care that they have it.
Yeah, that is why you will not be allowed in the progressive club there Mojeuax.
It is a difficult fence to have to straddle: wanting *the kinds of things* they have and resenting them but not wanting to take it away from them. They earned it; it’s theirs; they don’t owe me anything. Now, how do I get mine?
“Capitalism is the worst system, except for all the others.”
– I forget who said it.
Churchill regarding democracy, I think, but I could be wrong.
“I didn’t say half the things I said.” – Yogi Berra regarding popular quotations.
Most modern political systems work from the premise that man and society are perfectable. It is a seductive proposition, but one wholly based on hubris.
That’s the central premise of progressivism and has been since the very first progressives.
Right: almost nothing can be perfect or without costs
Maybe it’s the way I was raised, but I expect downsides and costs. To save or invest is to defer other expenditure; to succeed in war is to suffer casualties; to be strong requires exercise; to enjoy a pet is to onboard the responsibility for its humane death eventually. Everything naturally comes with initial cost and, often, unhappy residues.
I almost enjoy spending money on some things: I feel successful when I pay insurance premiums, pay for car or home repairs. Maybe those expenses mean one less scoop of ice cream in this life, but I was ready, did what I should have done, and was ready to carry my weight when each time came.
The adult task is eliminating unnecessary costs, minimizing problems where we can. But let’s not dream up systems that are even worse than the ones we have!
Well said, it’s hard to disagree with truth, yet people persist
No, it’s not!
“Being of the mind that ends justify the means, that a few eggs have to be broken to make an omelet, leads one to commit all sorts of evil. ”
This leads to all sorts of debates, among libertarians and many religious folk, if it applies in cases of self defense (such as the War against Japan).
Read, for instance, the cases made by all sides in the question “should we have bombed Hiroshima?” and you’ll see what I mean: six of one, half dozen of the other, and hindsight is 20/20 but it isn’t wisdom.
OT: I’m about to head out to Winnemucca, Nevada in an hour or so. I’m gonna count tens of thousands of bales of alfalfa tomorrow. If any Glibs are in the area and want to meet for steak and whiskey tonight, email my handle at gmail. Oh, I’ll be counting tens of thousands of bales of alfalfa Friday in Imperial, California. Any Glibs stuck in the desert that want steak and whiskey Thursday night, let me know.
Hope you’re not driving a Buick out there.
I had to look that up. It’s just past the middle of nowhere.
I live right near Route 80, but 2,500 miles east unfortunately.
But I was just reading in the BBC this morning about how the US is awash in guns and segregation, and how we must do something to correct these flaws. England doesn’t have guns or segregation so they must be doing something right!
While it’s stupid to have a chip on your shoulder about a war we fought over 200 years ago, I have a hard time not getting flustered when some limey starts tut-tutting the United States for our perceived backwardness. Fuck off, John Bull, nobody gives a shit what you think.
Most of this I see in written form or as Pierce Morgan blathering on TV. Once however I ran into a proper English girl here working for the summer. She could not understand the value of the Second Amendment no matter how I explained it.
Me: It’s got nothing to do with hunting or sporting. Our founding fathers saw self defense as a natural right and knew that an armed populace cannot be oppressed from within or without. That’s why we have the Second Amendment.
Her: [said in queens English] But what about people’s right to be safe?! I think those ideas are rather old fashioned, besides who is going to oppress anyone. We’ve moved past all that.”
Bleh.
Did you at least whip out your John Thomas and give her a good shagging?
She was built (both mentally and physically) to be a school marm. Her Austrailian co-workers on the other hand…..lets just say I really wished I’d had a reason to be around that summer. Stone cold foxes who really liked to have a good time.
Also the Australian girls all thought guns were cool and thought Aussies giving up their guns was regrettable.
Slutty, fun-loving Aussie girls are one of G-d’s many gifts to the world.
I’ve been told that American guys who hang around Australia do well for themselves, height, $, and good looks not being a prerequisite. After this girl went viral a few years ago I’ve been wondering why I’ve been wasting my life here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRRTp-_EDrI
/sorry her boobs aren’t bigger Q
@Boberson
you can’t swing a dead cat in Jasper AL without hitting a girl as hot as that
who can cook! (hint: Jersey accents need not apply)
which sad “here” are you languishing in? the US is a big place, but the roads connect in all kinds of handy ways
You leave Michelle out of this!
I am currently languishing in WV where hot girls are as common as hens teeth. The genetics are here but typically the ravages of opioids, cigarettes, mountain dew and Tudor’s Biscuits set in around 23.
In the case of Michelle Jenekke I concede that there are other specimens that are of equal physical qualities. In her case it’s the bubbly self-confidence and flirtatiousness that bumps her from regular hot to unicorn hot IMO.
God, I remember that warm-up dance.
I generally like plumper women, but yeah, just…yeah. Athletic and girly-girly all at once.
Her smile is the icing on that very hot cake. She has one of those smiles that make you reflexively feel happy and smile back when you see it.
What part of SEC sorority girls don’t y’all get?
As NewWife says as she jauntily strides towards the kitchen in contemplation of making my next sammich “make it happen!” Try to picture that with the little clap in tempo while they talk that they do whenever they’re organizing a cocktail party.
Why the Securities and Exchange Commission has sororities.
“old fashioned”
In other words, I have no argument against it so I’ll object on temporal grounds.
Also:
“who is going to oppress anyone. We’ve moved past all that.”
MUH RYT SIDE OF HISSTOREE!
…and about 75% of the world would like to have a word with you about that.
Airshit One is a perfect example that giving it up doesn’t really give you safety in the end either.
Assuming for a moment that such a right exists… her country is doing a shit job at protecting it.
There cannot be a right to be safe as no entity can provide absolute safety.
Gun ownership was never particularly widespread in the UK even in the 18th century. The “upper middle classes” could open weapons and that was the class from which many of the American revolutionaries emerged. And, given the widespread ownership of weapons it made sense to extend it as a natural right.
While I don’t disagree with Suthen’s overall point, the Lockean idea of rights, while couched in universal language, was really written with an eye to property-owning males.
Of course. Jefferson only vaguely conceded that Blacks might have rights at all. Many of the Enlightenment Thinkers were only partially aware of the implications of their own ideas.
But that means they were totally wrong about everything!1!
the Lockean idea of rights, while couched in universal language, was really written with an eye to property-owning males.
Which does nothing to invalidate it. The crime wasn’t the view of individual rights. It’s that it wasn’t extended universally,.
Agree. I was more responding to the average Brit’s lack of interest in gun ownership. While the idea may have originated in English enlightenment thinking, it was never experienced by that many Brits.
Holy fuck. In her home country they are throwing people in prison for telling jokes, a la old timey USSR. I guess it is not oppression if you torture the right people.
The only Patreon I ever did was Count Dankula. Fine if anyone thought his “Nazi pug” was offensive, I can get that.
Putting him in prison for it? GFY.
I think those ideas are rather old fashioned, besides who is going to oppress anyone. We’ve moved past all that.
The age of empires is less than a hundred years past, and we still read daily of totalitarian and semi-totalitarian regimes oppressing their people in ways both large and small. Narrow-mindedness and short-sightedness are the bane of democracy.
But what about people’s right to be safe?
Who is safer? Somebody who can defend themself, or somebody who can’t?
The problem with your inquiry is that you come to it from the wrong perspective. If you understand that the class advocating for the disarmament of the people (the plebes) real motivation is that historically the plebes eventually get fed up and fight back, and then an armed plebes comes after them and they get butchered, you will understand that their concern is solely to protect themselves. Fuck the serfs/rabble.
Because being an unfree subject is less backwards than being a (somewhat) free citizen.
Sod off, swampy.
Fuck the Brits and their half-assed freedom. Why do we have these backward conventions and traditions: because you beat them into us, Dad! As (((they))) say: never again * rechecks ammo inventory *
Proposed law: any (any!!!!) subject of the British crown may emigrate to the US and shall be granted a green card immediately after
a/proving he has surrendered his native “citizenship”
b/agreeing to live by the fruits of his own efforts
c/paying for three American progs to move to the UK
“c/paying for three American progs to move to the UK”
LOL, if only…
“England doesn’t have guns”
True enough I suppose.
“or segregation”
East London begs to differ.
Clearly Airstrip One has got it all figured out what with talk of banning kitchen knives and the police actively covering up massive amounts of child rape for the sake of “diversity”.
I was being facetious, you half-wit (:)) Of course they have both, and especially lots of the latter. Not that it’s any of the gummint’s goddamn business.
I know, I can just imagine the BBC guy actually making such arguments since their society is so enlightened as opposed to us rebellious colonists.
For a country without guns they sure have a lot of gun crime.
Well, with a disarmed populous that risks the long arm of the law if they are stupid enough to resist successfully, gun crime pays well. And I actually had one of these prog asshats tell me that it was far better to endure getting robbed than to have either party shoot and kill the other. Seriously.
Good article suthen, and sorry about your ribs. That sucks and will hurt until it dont no more.
Thank you. I will survive.
I’ve had broken ribs a couple of times, both from martial arts competitions. Didn’t really bother me except for laying down to sleep, coughing, laughing, and sneezing.
^^^THIS^^^
I busted two ribs – it was horrible for exactly the reasons you state. I lived on Vicodin and chocolate chip cookies.
G. . . is not subject to our whims
Here’s the intractable ration I can’t get around: a fourth of folks are socially broken. They are unable to transact with most folks because of
a/destructive under-culture (I give everyone a second chance, but the English ’round here is often unintelligible) including constant drama and offers of violence
b/ lack of social skills (being suitably covered with outer wear and punching a clock and being at one’s workstation by 6:59am)
c/ crippling addiction
The only comfortable reaction seems to be to live on enough property far from the madding crowd so that one seldom encounters and little finances backward behaviors, but I don’t for one second believe that the nutcases can be starved away or starved into successful behaviors. I think this is something of a fixed law like the gravitational constant; therefore laws/bureaucracy that hope to fix these are hopeless wastes of resources.
Single women of a certain age have it bad: add the semi-normal guys who live in their parents’ basements and have taken on tons of pointless debt, it might be a full third of marriageable men are actually unavailable.
“The only comfortable reaction seems to be to live on enough property far from the madding crowd”
I agree.
It is partially, at least, a product of being too successful as a society. The incredible abundance produced has allowed the proliferation of non-productive, and even socially destructive, behaviors. In the more brutal past, the lack of excess resources available to society would have resulted in the marginalization and social ostracism and even use of force to curb behaviors that were damaging to the culture and to society. Our current ability to indulge them due to the unprecedented wealth available is not the norm, and of of course it will not last. The destruction of Western culture will also result in the destruction of our current immensely wealthy and comfortable state of society. As the cycle goes, hard men create good times, good times create soft men, soft men create hard times; hard times create hard men; etc. etc. Unfortunately, the freedom and advancement of the Western enlightenment is unlikely to be duplicated once it has been brought down.
Abundance is the downfall of empires. Every empire in the past has the following stages:
1. The Age of Pioneers (outburst)
2. The Age of Conquests
3. The Age of Commerce
4. The Age of Affluence
5. The Age of Intellect
6. The Age of Decadence
We are most certainly in the age of decadence which is marked by – Defensiveness, materialism, frivolity, an influx of foreigners. the Welfare State, a loss of confidence, and a weakening of religion.
Assyria, Persia, Greece, the Roman Republic, the Roman Empire. the Arab Empire… all went through the complete cycle in 208 to 267 years. The get powerful, then they get rich, and the wealth makes them weak. We’re weak now, just waiting for the next then to come along and sweep all this nonsense away and start over.
http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf
You realize that such historism is exactly what the Austrian school was founded in opposition to, right?
6. The Age of Decadence
Unfair! I’m willing to endure 6 if it’s my turn, but I missed the thrill of 5.
I’m not sure there’s anything to get around here other than the fact that these people only exist at the pleasure of a system that tolerates them. As a preamble, I’m not arguing for going back to the Savannah, nor am I advocating loading these people in cattle cars and sending them to the showers, I’m just stating reality as I see it. Back on the Savannah, people who couldn’t function died/were killed. It’s actually a tale of how incredibly prosperous and generous “we” are that these people’s existence is tolerated and they don’t just end up dead in the street. We don’t starve them away purposely because it’s not something that current society considers moral. Absent any kind of safety net or family or charity, however, it’s not a question of whether they get starved out, just how quickly it happens.
J. Peterson makes a similar argument about people with IQs below 85; in most ways they are simply fucked through no fault of their own. What do you do with them? As long as the welfare/charity keeping them alive is privately funded, I couldn’t care less; I’ll even donate. It’s when you start using the public dole that I get my hackles up.
I’d guess Sub 85 IQ’s were less of a problem in the past. There was plenty of simple, repetitive labor to go around. It doesn’t take a genius to run an ax, shovel or plow. With automation on the horizon I have a hard time picturing what said people can do.
I know a Down’s syndrome man who works at Wal-Mart and volunteers at a fire station in my wife’s homeown in Oklahoma. He’s more productive than a lot of regular people I’ve met.
Sure, I didn’t mean to imply they couldn’t do things, just that such work is getting scarcer. In my experience many folks with DS do everything with a can-do attitude that most of us could only wish we had.
I make a great living putting those folks out of business: everything I design or build has the principle goal of improving output and quality while reducing total cost by designing people and their mistakes out of the system.
When I regard my loud, swaggering, truck-driving family, I can’t imagine what possible use the world will have for them other than as cat food.
Also sweeping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgZx_vQcgHo
Actually people with sub 85 IQ’s are ALREADY locked out of productive employment for all intents and purposes. Peterson tells a story about a former client of his with an IQ of 85 and the work they did to try and get this guy a job. Peterson managed to get him an unpaid job stuffing fundraising envelopes for a non profit and the guy was incapable of doing that well enough to keep the job. You might find the occasional job here or there that a person with that level IQ is capable of performing sufficiently well to earn a paycheck doing but they will be few and far between and about 1 in 10 people have an IQ 85 or below.
They’re locked out because of the minimum wage. And yes, that’s explicityly what the eugenicist-economists of the early progressive movement had in mind when they started agitating for it.
BTW, the link between Hitler’s atrocities and progressivism is not an imaginary one. Hitler just took the principles of eugenics to its logical conclusion.
And the progressive movement may not consciously use the principles of eugenics in crafting new policies, but in holding onto old policies which were the product of eugenic thinking, and coming up with rationalizations for those policies to continue into the present, they seem to be creating habits of thought that infect how the weigh and generate policy ideas.
Thus they seem to unconsciously be applying eugenic principles in their thinking, but obliviously and inchoately.
Jeeze, I had the same rant almost verbatim to my wife a couple weeks ago.
These idiots, the sjw’s, Muslim extremists, *any* extremist, soy boys, the unproductive, the destructive are only able to operate at the pleasure of the productive. Keep poking the productive with a stick, and you might get swatted back into place. But these creeps are too stupid to realize it, and they just keep poking. It won’t end well for them.
Your wrong Suthen, but John Dingell knows what we need.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/john-dingell-how-restore-faith-government/577222/
What a fuckin’ scumbag.
He has several good ideas to ensure a permanent Democrat majority. What’s the problem?!
Reminds me of the Alan Dershowitz opinion article in the Wall St. Journal. You make America Great Again by following Democratic policy prescriptions. Um just no.
“There are many reasons for this dramatic decline: the Vietnam War, Watergate, Ronald Reagan’s folksy but popular message that government was not here to help, the Iraq War, and worst of all by far, the Trumpist mind-set.”
The Trumpist mind-set. Care to give us some details? Dingleberry should fuck right off.
His father was a Congressman, He was a Representative (for 59 damn years!). Now his wife is a Representative.
Hasn’t Michigan suffered enough?
They keep electing them. so no.
Wow. Just…WOW. I can’t even…Fuck you, dude. Fuck you and die already.
(Note: not you, Scruffy – the asshole in the article)
There’s a name I hoped to never hear again – and he wants to get rid of the Great Compromise – the deal that made the country possible. Fuck you. That’s a recipe for a break-up in the best case scenario – more likely a civil war the kills half the population.
But I don’t think the US government should be so lenient.
Great article. It’s amazing how many people will fight tooth and nail against the basic fact that “water is wet”, because of their own desire for power and control.
Excellent article Suthen, thank you!
To use your terms; the “G” of economics is really the reality of scarcity. Human nature evolved to accommodate the immutable realities of existence, one of which is that resources are scarce. One truth that many people find uncomfortable, and progs/SJWs find intolerable, is that these scarce resources get allocated unevenly based on competence. The question “competence at what?” is answered by what kind of economic system you try and use. Capitalism is the most moral since it’s competence at fulfilling demand for goods and services in voluntary, mutually beneficial transactions. Most (all?) other systems typically degenerate into competence at stealing and/or killing to obtain resources by force. No socialist or communist system solves the problem of scarcity or distributes resources in a purely egalitarian manner; all it does is disguise “might makes right” in flowery language of justice and equality.
You are correct. They dont solve the problem of scarcity. I hadn’t thought of it that way before. They actively ignore it or take it as a given that it doesnt exist.
They pretend scarcity can be solved because of technology or magic, but reality is that no technology will ever be able to provide everyone with everything. Simply doesn’t work that way. Especially when you need skilled labor to make shit. 3-D printing will not solve this either. materials, time, and ever growing demands will always get in the way.
Thank you Suthenboy, this was a very thought-provoking article. I like how you illustrate the underlying laws of the natural world and how our expressions of them are analogies.
I have a friend who’s an anthropologist specializing in the Hausa (a Muslim group in western Africa), but he’s traveled to lots of place and seen lots of different cultures. He has interesting things to say about how different peoples have chosen to organize their societies. In talking with him, it’s struck me that, the same way there are different ways to solve a math problem (you can graph it, apply algebra, use arithmetic, or even different methods within the same mathematical system), humans have come up with different solutions to cultural problems–marriage, how to raise children, courtship, punishment of crime, etc. Some solutions might be best practices, some might be good enough, some might be outright failures.
I do think you’re right that the United States has come up with best practices in a lot of areas–especially related to economics, government, making a living. I wonder about certain other areas. For instance, I notice in the United States there is a lot less emphasis on extended families than in many other countries. Actually, there’s a lot less emphasis on extended families in the US now than there was in the US in the past, as well. Sometimes I’ll come across a lucky family where the grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings, etc., all live pretty close together, sometimes in the same neighborhood. This seems like a much better way of doing things than with my family, where many of us are spread across different states in the mid-South. I think it results in closer, more-loving relationships between more family members, and more people able to contribute to child-rearing, household emergencies, maybe even small business formation. I wonder if the US wouldn’t benefit from setting up laws and customs that encouraged closer family relations like that. I don’t know, it’s Just a thought, not a sermon.
Taking an axe to the welfare state would fix that particular ill in a hurry.
THIS
When my mom was 8, my grandfather died so my grandmother moved in with her parents. Later in life, when I was 15, my grandmother moved in with my mom and step-dad, and eventually lived with us for 20 years. After the death of my step-dad, my mother lives with me and my daughter. Yes, there are advantages, but goddamn if there aren’t plenty of drawbacks as well. We Americans like our individual freedom and self-reliance; the emotional and financial entanglement and overall drama of extended family-ship wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea, methinks.
My famopticon will ensure that my dependents keep a watchful eye on one another.
“We Americans like our individual freedom and self-reliance; the emotional and financial entanglement and overall drama of extended family-ship wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea, methinks.”
We love our freedom and self reliance so much that we let the state take care of our parents when they get old.
…and gladly let the state watch our children for 8 hours a day, 9 months a year.
Social Security and Medicare were a big enabler in America’s famed “mobility” allowing families to move around the country in search of better opportunities. Of course, a lot of that mobility also involved old people selling everything and moving to Florida and Arizona.
Now, now. They worked hard and paid into the system for their “entitlements”.
My mom read my mind on that score. She always went on about “not being a burden”; well, in the end she exited fairly early (well, 72) so it didn’t really matter. But yeah, my family is very typically American in this regard. I agree with arguments on both sides of the issue.
I specifically moved 3000 miles from my parental units and siblings, not because I didn’t love them, but because I wanted to make sure I would keep loving them.
Hi jatnas! Long time no see
I love my mother, but I can only handle her in short intervals.
There is a reason I moved away at 17 and have never lived closer than 2 hours away from her since
My parents were about 75 minutes away – now they’re 10. The extra responsibility – guess who they call to take care of anything physical that they can’t? – me! And my brothers aren’t around because one is a whole state away while the other is Canadian.
I suppose it has benefits – free dinners, babysitter, and the chance to reconnect with my dad after my tumultuous teenage relationship with him. But gosh they are stubborn people. I know it’s only going to get worse as their mental and physical abilities begin to fail. They’re both still very much with it at 77, but I’m starting to see the physical decline.
“Happiness is having a large, loving family. That live in another state.” – George Burns
The deep thoughts of Karla Marx:
“First of all, it’s just plain wrong, the idea that we’re going to lose economic activity. As a matter of fact, it’s not just possible that we will create jobs and economic activity by transitioning to renewable energy but it’s inevitable. It’s inevitable that we’re going to create jobs. It’s inevitable that we’re going to create industry,”…..And it’s inevitable that we can use the transition to 100% renewable energy as the vehicle to truly deliver and establish economic, social, and racial justice in the United States of America. That is our proposal and that is what we are here to do,” she said.
Paris says “hi”
“It’s inevitable that we’re going to create jobs.”
The amount of stupid contained in just this one sentence is staggering.
Just wait until someone explains to her the number of extra jobs required to dig the foundations for the windmills that will arise if the workers are only allowed to use spoons instead of shovels and wheelbarrows!
+1 Milton Friedman
Of course the government will need to conduct a needs assessment to the tune of $10M and then put out a contract for digging spoons which will be awarded to the lowest bidder at a mere $350 per spoon.
Those spoons better reflect the lived experiences of female minorities or minority females, buster.
Well, duh, it will be specified in the contract that the manufacturing company will be female minorities or minority female owned.
Well no, she is correct to a point.
Switching the entire basis of our energy production will absolutely create jobs. It may even create more jobs than it destroys although this is highly unlikely. What it absolutely will not do however is produce prosperity because the costs of switching is going to sap far more from the productive capacity of the country than just continuing what we are doing and letting change happen organically when it makes economic sense to do so.
In other words what good is a job that does not pay you enough to live much above starvation level poverty?
Also creating jobs is not the goal of an economy. Creating wealth is. Labor is a cost.
She specifically said “really the value for me is that I believe that in a modern, moral and wealthy society, no person in America should be too poor to live. That’s what I feel,”
So that job that keeps you hovering around starvation is the goal I guess.
The goal is to use this absurd mandate for “100% renewable energy” to accomplish a laundry list of Marxist goals.
I would like to thank the residents of the great state of New York for giving us someone special enough to divert attention from the dumb young woman we elected to represent my district in Iowa.
I respectfully decline the thanks. I do not reside in that district and did not contribute to this spectacle.
Yeah, don’t pin that shit on me, either. She does promise to be great fun for the next couple years, though.
I’m considering trying to work my way into the protest circuit to eventually be her staffer in a plot to ultimately #metoo her.
After you hate bang her, or before?
If a word of that were true it would happen all on its own sans govt action.
My God, that woman is a moron and doesnt appear to be sane. The voters that put her in office should be deported. I know, if you aren’t free to be wrong, etc. Fine. They should go be free somewhere else.
Actually, I suspect she’s right.
Renewable energy (by which she means wind and solar, I’m sure) is essentially duplicate infrastructure on top of the current fossil fuel baseline generating capacity. Renewables don’t replace baseline generating capacity because they are intermittent. So we’ll have all the jobs of current baseline generation, plus all the jobs for renewables.
The only downside is that your electric bill will be multiples of what it is now.
The point is it won’t have a net creation of jobs; sure a lot of jobs in that industry, but the extra costs will kill jobs in other areas. And if it’s not as efficient, there will likely be a net loss of jobs (or more precisely general prosperity).
Damnit So close
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/04/politics/michael-avenatti-says-no-2020-presidential-bid/index.html
Great article.
I, for one, would like to see more philosophizin’ in these parts.
I’m often told here that ship X has sailed when I don’t embrace some practical partisan posture. Are there great questions on practical libertarianism?
I started to write something up about rechts fahren; as a process guy, I love the metaphor of the open highway as community and driver etiquette as law. Since US roads ain’t gonna be private anytimes soon, I cornered myself and could not come up with a rationale for codifying highway etiquette as law. So I gave up.
But dilly-dallying in the left lane is clearly theft if not assault, and I should get to mount a heavy rifle of some sort on my truck with which to defend myself!
That is because law is too blunt an object to use as enforcement for something like highway etiquette.
It requires strict concrete language that can cover all (or at least the overwhelming majority of) cases and punish only those who infringe on the rights of others. The problem is each of those 3 requirements is mutually exclusive of the others.
Etiquette however is governed by far more flexible and nuanced systems than law and as such it works to make the roads work more efficiently as it need not be universally adhered to without breaking down, can easily change and adapt to changing systems, and is not enforced by violence or threat of violence.
of course; I was just being silly; notice my inclusion of the ridiculous idea of cannonading people for snoozing in the LH lane
when all you really need is a snow blade and then just bash them the f*** out of the way
https://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/a-destructive-wedge-through-memory-lane-minimyth
RVs on two-lane roads, especially mountain roads, are an NAP violation.
Weirdly enough, I’ve had a similar article percolating in my brain for quite a while. Particularly how Germany has a lower per capita rate of automobile accidents despite the lack of “55 to stay alive”.
My answer – William Graham Sumner.
The way my German teacher put it, they have fewer accidents but the ones they do have are characterized by spectacular carnage.
And as we know, somewhere, some Germans are getting off to that too.
Here in Texas the speed limit is 85, and even on smaller one lane roads it is frequently 75 in rural areas.
Our accident fatality rates are bad, however.
..
I would not really look at “per capita” accidents though. I think when you also need to control for miles driven.
That’s a good point.
Not, sadly, a good link, though.
Fixed.
Here in Texas the speed limit is 85
Umm: it is in a few tiny places, wherein once I was content at 82 (7 over) contently waiting on folks to get out of my way
but now it’s infuriating because one can seldom even do the speed limit . . .so that same 82 is now maddening.
Give me US385 where I’ve had cops just give me a friendly wave even though I was maxxed (95 in the Chevy work truck).
Yeah. It’s still pretty high at 75 even on country roads, and I exactly encounter your issue.
..
But see post below.
Even though the speed limit is really high, people won’t do it. Why? Because many people aren’t comfortable in their big old trucks at that speed Very noticeable when you are stuck behind some pickup on a country road. .
Particularly how Germany has a lower per capita rate of automobile accidents despite the lack of “55 to stay alive”.
Keep in mind they also have a ridiculously high barrier to entry (in the form of a rigorous licensing process), which serves as a confounding variable that makes it difficult to discern where their better driving abilities actually come from. I’ve known some Germans who were temporary residents of the US who found it easier to get a US license + international license than going through the German drivers’ licensing process.
That’s part of what I planned on discussing. In particular, the origin of thinking for such licensing laws.
There was a series of studies on speed limits conducted a while back which basically concluded that over 99% of people simply drive within about 5 mph of what they consider safe regardless of what the local speed limit says. They could really only drive down or up a couple of mph in the experiment. So I’d you posed a speed limit that was way slower than what was actually safe people would only reduce their speed very slightly. If you posted one way higher than what was safe, people would only slightly edge toward it. People basically just drive what they feel is comfortable naturally.
Bingo. I was familiar with those studies too. I also read that city planners have begun to account for this and if they calculate a road could be safely navigated at 35, they’ll recommend the limit be posted at 30, knowing the majority of drivers will go 35.
When I drove on Autobahnen in Germany I typically maintained the speed between 100 and 125 mph. 100 mph is the average speed that drivers willing to stay in the right lane maintain. If you want to overtake cars you have to drive faster. I rarely exceeded 125 mph, but many other drivers did. How could it happen, according to the studies, if the vast majority of my driving is in the US with max speed limits of 65 mph (I typically do 75)?
As Urthona said, it’s based on what you’re driving. Would I feel comfortable driving a 15 year-old, poorly maintained F-150 at 125 mph? Hell no! But what is the point of buying, say, a Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG, if not to go 125 mph+ on a regular basis?
But what is the point of buying, say, a Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG, if not to go 125 mph+ on a regular basis?
Chicks. Duh.
I hate speed limits. I like those experiments in Europe where they removed all signage and forced people to get their shit together. Granted, they limited city center speed limits, but that doesn’t seem irrational.
I-80? Anything goes.
I drive a BMW 5-series in the US and on that vacation in Germany I rented a BMW 1-series. Both cars can go 125mph+.
How could it happen, according to the studies, if the vast majority of my driving is in the US with max speed limits of 65 mph (I typically do 75)?
It also depends on road construction. There are variables in road design (radius of curvature, width of lanes, etc.) that factor into the “safe” speed of a road, which is typically a bit higher than the posted speed. Thus, a road designed for a speed limit of 75MPH may actually have been designed for a safe speed of 85MPH while the unlimited autobahn may have been designed for a safe speed of 125MPH.
I drove Mrs. Dean’s E63 AMG once, from the dealer through the Hill Country to our house, about a 3 1/2 hour drive. Mostly on two-lane roads, with a good chunk of it on somewhat twisty roads. The only way I could keep it under 90 mph was to use the cruise control. What a machine – 600 horsepower, naturally aspirated, managed to drive like it both like was on rails and was stalking its natural prey – other cars.
Why keep it under 90? Speed traps, and deer.
Thank you Sir. I fell and cracked a rib last night. I wanted to make sure I was present when this article was posted but I was a bit infirm. I had some vodka and ibuprofen earlier and fell asleep. I woke up, came here and the first thing I see is your comment. You made my day.
Thanks!
I started as a philosophy major, flipped to EE, and then CS after the math-e-matizing got to hard for my drink-addled brain.
Much of philosophy – at least to me – is like debating how many angels can dance at the end of a pin; but some I found rather interesting.
I have a friend who followed a similar path. It’s not my bag at all so listening to go on about that stuff is exhausting. Thank god I only see him at events where there is a lot of alcohol involved.
That’s because it is. Philosophy is like the field of medicine in where you have a whole side of it that works and produces demonstrable results and another half that still believes in the 4 humours and shit. I don’t believe chiropractors should be banned from practice, but I’m not going to their clinics when I have an illness.
Philosophy major here.
I’ve actually found it pretty useful, because my profs were genuinely teaching us how to think, and how to have some self-awareness about our thought processes.
That’s what philosophy should be – I’d even respect a continental philosopher who still sought to instill that in his or her students.
-1 Derrida
+1 Kripke
Exactly.
Carpet is gone … and it’s cold in here with a bunch of windows and doors open. Putting in underlayment now after they scraped away 25 years of carpet goo.
Workers look like they escaped from prison and working incognito to escape the law. God bless America.
Cork Flooring going in now.
I had cork flooring in my kitchen. I loved it. But my fucking animals scratched the shit out of it.
Another disadvantage of having an extended family situation is that they prevent you from strangling your pets to death.
I’m worried about the dog – hoping the trimmed nails will help. And an area rug to stop the worst damage. Yeah – let’s put in new flooring and then cover it up!
Two dogs. No scratches in the Pergo after 13 years. I could have afforded to put real hardwood down. But not to refinish it every other year.
Well, I have ceramic in the kitchen now.
I’m leaning toward the new LVP (Luxury Vinyl Planking) in my basement.
There is carpet now, but I get rare cases of water coming in, and carpet sucks for that.
Looks like Pergo but is completely waterproof, and the better stuff is thick and quiet.
Cork is awesome, but I also have the pet problem. My dogs have annihilated our hardwood floors, which admittedly weren’t in the best shape when we bought the place. They’d shred cork in a month, if they didn’t saturate it in wee and poo the first time we went away for a weekend. Or to work for a day.
This composite is fairly hard – I banged the sample piece with a hammer and it only left a minor dent. – but I haven’t rubbed dog or cat nails across it multiple times.
I’ll confess my cheap-ass way of dealing with old nasty carpet, basement slab, destructive kids and cats, and lack of funds:
Peel-and-stick vinyl wood-look tile. Unless you walk on it barefoot, you can’t tell. I get compliments on it all the time. “Oh, you did that yourself? Whoa, nice.”
I do use area rugs liberally, but that is for warmth, not to hide the fact that it’s cheap.
Mind, this is only temporary until we can afford to gut the whole thing and do a complete rehab.
That does look pretty good. And the price is right, that’s for sure.
That’s pretty much where we want to go. Cheap and easy until the kids are gone in 10 years then make the place nice. I am really interested in the stuff where you can replace the individual squares once they are damaged or worn and not the whole damn floor.
Right now we are in epoxied subfloor mode as a temporary patch after pulling up the nasty carpet (HM’s point above, damn MIL’s dog that I had to put down the old fashioned way).
Also peel-and-stick. See my long link above. In the background you can see the white-and-black check tiles in the kitchen. That was carpeted when we moved in, we abused it dreadfully, but didn’t know what else to do, then I got obsessed with black-and-white check, then we spilled something on the carpet that killed it for good. I Kilzed the subfloor and laid that down in the kitchen and family room. I think I put down a good 800 ft2 of it.
I had to re-do the galley part of the kitchen earlier this year, but it took little time, a few tiles, and a spot or two of Liquid Nails.
That’s what I figured. Where I used to work used the carpet squares in the new building, all commercial grade of course. That was 10 years ago and it was fairly new at the time, I believe.
I was going to mention the kitchen. i like that black and white, but our house is mostly open and not conducive to big changes between the kitchen/dining/living rooms. It would be too much for such a large space I think.
Saltillo tile for the whole house. If you look just right, you can see where the dog nails scratch it. Its supposed to look kinda rustic anyway, so eh, who cares.
Area rugs for decoration and comfort underfoot. And also to provide better footing for, yes, the dogs. Blown knees are no joke on a dog, trust me.
We had engineered hardwood at the last house. Tough as nails – little to no damage from the dog paws.
My grandparents did that for a lot of the first floor. Basically the rooms that get the most traffic, particularly that you can get to from outside. It looks good and it cleans easy. Cold, though.
We did engineered hardwood for our daughter’s room. That stuff is great. Wasn’t too hard to lay down, either. The only downside as I understand it is that you really only get maybe one or two shots at refinishing it before you’ve sanded through the pretty layer, but I doubt we’ll be in the house long enough for that to be an issue.
Cock flooring?
When you rub on it, you bang your head on the ceiling?
More Cork
I’m putting coretec in my bedrooms. Starting to feel like a refugee living in the office while my house is being remodeled.
http://www.usfloorsllc.com/display-category/coretec-plus/
OT, @Akira.
I posted a reply to your question on pushups yesterday but it was already too late.
Pushups are more versatile than most people think. Get in the push-up position and put your hands in a position so that the tips of your thumbs and index fingers touch. Those are known as “arm blasters” and for good reasons. Hands directly beneath your shoulders are the standard and are designed to work your shoulders. Spread your hands out about six inches on each side and you’ll be working your pecs. You want to work upper chest? Elevate your feet.
When I was in the fire academy at my department, upper body days would include about 600 pushups, in addition to all the other physical activity.
I don’t do push-ups, planks, etc. these days because my shoulders are shot. And not because of the academy. Over your lifetime, enjoy your youth but pay attention to your future. For my money, lighter weight and higher reps are the secret to long joint life. Keep the heavy lifting to a minimum.
Man, in my younger years I could knock out 82 military qualified push-ups in under a minute. Now that I am wiser, I can knock out 50 if I really push myself, 45 without much effort, and while it is more than what most people can do, I feel inadequate. Does help keep the body looking better according to the ladies.
push-up position and put your hands in a position so that the tips of your thumbs and index fingers touch…
Raise up your butt and lower your face to your hands – these were know as Pussy Eaters in Boot Camp and some Drill instructors required us to have our tongues out while performing the exercise.
Form is everything.. How are you going to develop muscle memory and do it by instinct if you don’t do the whole exercise right, huh?
Stossel.
http://reason.com/reasontv/2018/12/04/stossel-google-and-facebook-cross-the
TW: TOS.
They’re still stupid about it. I went to look at my data and they pegged as a “political moderate” (which I am not, but I guess I don’t fit into Republican or Democrat). My biggest hobby was apparently that I’m a huge soccer fan. I’m not. It’s not even my favorite sport, and certainly not my favorite hobby but I happen to have followed some soccer related stuff on Facebook. Other stuff was wrong too.
They have a very limited grasp of me, frankly.
“political moderate”
Burn the witch!
“Our understanding of the natural laws governing chemistry and adherence to them has given us ever increasingly sophisticated and useful metals, plastics, medicines, fuels, and building materials.”
Why no mention of sex robots? That’s what it is all about man!
Video from the last Glibertarians meetup.
I am NOT clicking on that… I know better.
Alright you knuckleheads. Somewhere around here I have a couple of texts on the philosophy of law. One was published in the early 1970’s, the other in the late ’90s. They both spend a lot of time scratching their heads about natural/inalienable rights because they claim there is no sound justification for believing in them. They claim they are arbitrarily invented to justify much of our legal system. Jefferson discussed the subject and said that he used ‘God given’ as a justification because he knew it would fly in a highly religious culture but he admitted that aside from that he could not formulate a sound argument in defense of the idea.
I have tried here to present a sound argument that works for the religious and the non-religious. I am trying to show that inalienable rights are a real thing, not some nebulous invented bullshit. Is this argument just re-inventing the wheel? Is it bullshit? Is it sound?
One of you lazy bastards take a swing at it. I didn’t throw this up in the air so you could all keep your pistols holstered.
The proof that you have a “right to speak” is found in the fact that you have the ability to speak.
I have the ability to murder. Do I have the inalienable right to do so? I think most people would not find that to be self-evident.
I have the ability to defend myself. Do I have the inalienable right to do so? I think most people would find it to be self-evident.
Also, one thing the progs, commies, pinkos, socialists, and most non-libertarians have in common is to hand waive away natural rights by claiming there is no justification for believing in them – in other words, it’s ok to steal.
Only from those that have more than they do, of course….
FIFY
I happen to agree with you, but I’ll throw this at you as a Devil’s advocate position that I’ve encountered:
The concept of a right only has meaning insofar as it references an interaction with another being. It doesn’t make sense to talk about a right to speech if there’s nobody who could prevent you from speaking, and you wouldn’t say that a sinkhole opening up under you has infringed on your right to freedom of movement because it isn’t an entity and has no will. So rights don’t exist in any meaningful sense outside of a social context. That being the case, they can’t be inherent. They must be a creation of society. That many societies create the same rights just points to the fact that humans all tend to desire the same things–safety, property, the ability to say what they want, etc.–and societies that survive tend to be those societies that balance out the conflicting desires of their members. Rights are simply a rephrasing of moral values held by a society. They don’t come from anywhere special, and they don’t mean anything.
There you go. Like I say, I agree with your position and happen to believe in the concept of natural rights, but this is the argument I see most often against them.
Society is what restricts existing rights granted to you at birth. In no way does the existence of a society allow for the recognition of your rights. Just the opposite
So rights don’t exist in any meaningful sense outside of a social context.
OK, I can work with this.
That being the case, they can’t be inherent. They must be a creation of society.
I think there’s a couple of stolen bases, here.
First, why can’t something that only exists by reference to interactions with other beings still be inherent? I would say that language, for example, is inherent to human societies. Can you imagine a society without language? I suppose so, but that doesn’t change the fact that none have ever existed. For any meaningful purpose, language is inherent to human society. So why can’t rights be equally inherent?
Saying its a creation of society implies that it is consciously and/or intentionally created by society. But that’s not really true, either. I think the example of language serves here as well. Its not really accurate to say that some group of people consciously or intentionally creates a “natural” language (English, Chinese, etc.). While there are artificial languages that were created that way, those aren’t the only languages that exist, and language can exist in a society by a process more akin to spontaneous order than to intentional, purposeful creation.
That’s my counterargument, actually. Societal norms, laws, etc., often demonstrate the existence of natural rights in a sort of legislative bas-relief. Laws are formed not because they’re meant to prevent the violation of a right but because of a desire to moderate the punishment of those violations. In other words, there are laws against murder not to prevent murder from being committed but to regulate the punishment: murderers are (in theory) punished equally under the law, rather than according to the ability and desire of friends or family of the victim.
On the infamous desert island where natural rights are demonstrated, a single person doesn’t lose rights simply because there’s nobody there to violate them. Societies are successful to the extent that they support natural rights, which exist prior to society. It’s sort of like (according to my very basic and flawed understanding of it) the Tao. People have inherent rights and tendencies and so forth. The more you try to fight those, the harder it is and the more likely you are to suffer unintended, negative consequences. The best strategy is to guide those forces and steer them rather than try to directly control them. Like a river, you can’t really stop it so much as try to encourage it to go in a slightly different direction.
I’d build on that and say that rights are inherently connected to language. For example, let’s look at color. It is a fact that electromagnetic radiation spans across a spectrum of different wavelengths. It is also a fact that the human optical system can translate light across a visible spectrum of 380 to 700 nm. However, different languages vary in how they divide this spectrum into different categories. While it seems like a fact of nature that a prism divides light into red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet – Thais and Russians (for example) will see “our” blue as two colors, just as speakers in some other languages would have a hard time seeing just exactly where we divide green and blue. In short, I agree with the psycholinguists who argue that while language doesn’t determine what we do see, it does impact what we can see or how we see it.
So if we define rights as the linguistic conceptualization of the necessary conditions for a being to live in this universe, then it seems that like color, different languages will divide these conditions into categories (semantic “boxes”) differently. But just as we can use the tools of natural science to measure light independent of language and culture, we can use the tools of logic to describe these necessary conditions independent of language and culture.
“we can use the tools of logic to describe these necessary conditions independent of language and culture.”
That is what I was trying to do but I am pretty sure I am not the most competent person to do that. I rewrote this article over and over for 4 months before I gave up and just submitted it.
In short, I agree with the psycholinguists who argue that while language doesn’t determine what we do see, it does impact what we can see or how we see it.
We don’t see with our eyes, we see with our brains when they interpret neural input from the eyes. I might even be willing to go so far as to say that language determines what we see, at least to the extent that it influences what/how our brains interpret that input.
Example: when a sign is at the very edge of being legible, you can’t quite make out the letters when you don’t know what it says, but you can make them out when you do know what it says.
That is a good one Bill, but I saw it coming.
I used the gravitational constant as an analogy specifically to shoot down that argument. That constant exists even if there is only one body of mass in the universe. It is an abstraction but it exists in reality as much as you or I do. Our inherent rights exist even if there is only one person on the planet. They dont require some entity to abridge them to conjure them into existence.
That works with my typical rebuttal, as well. Gravity exists whether or not you’re observing it. It doesn’t spring into existence the moment there are two objects with mass, it’s just that it isn’t observable prior to that. Of course, your Constructivists and so forth will say that it doesn’t exist until it can be observed, period, and that each observation is a different thing specific to the observer, so there isn’t a single thing called “gravity” that exists independently. But they’re idiots.
Also worth noting: No matter how many times you shoot them down they will not relent. I remember that paragon of virtue from TOS, Tony, finally one day explained “Fuck you, we are taking your stuff”. That is what it will always boil down to.
Still, I wanted a solid argument, even if in the end it boils down to me saying “No, fuck you. I am shooting your ass if you try that.”
I am trying to show that inalienable rights are a real thing, not some nebulous invented bullshit. Is this argument just re-inventing the wheel? Is it bullshit? Is it sound?
Well, now you are just inviting us to talk about dancing angels and pins and such, as LH & HM were discussing above.
So, let’s dance.
To start with my conclusion: I believe natural/inalienable rights are a supernatural quality, so when I am on the supernatural side of the fence I believe in them and when I am on the sceptic’s side of the fence I view them as invented ideas. I don’t think you can prove them to be “real things” in any natural sense of the term, which makes their name ironic, but to some extent they underpin nearly every philosophical and ideological system, so it’s either all a big ruse used to protect people from facing stark reality or there is something deeper there that calls to us even though we cannot prove it. The only moral system I think can actually be proven to exists in the natural world is “might makes right”, or more accurately merely “might makes”.
The article you wrote provides a fairly good stab at supporting the argument for the existence of natural rights, but its primary weakness is the fact that people disagree on what is “good”, so therefor you can never come to a consensus on what outcome is “good” and therefor can never definitively answer which system best delivers the “good” outcome. Things that one group may consider good another may consider evil, and vice versa, so how can one determine what the true “good” is, other than relying on one’s own intuition – which would make things purely subjective and lean the whole thing hard towards the “invented bullshit” side of the spectrum. In other words, the standard by which to judge whether a system is “good” or “evil” is itself up for debate, as there is no consensus on what is “good” or “evil”, other than the idea that these things exist.
The United States’ system has been wildly successful, but before that there were many contrary systems that were successful, some that even lasted much longer. The patriarchal system of Rome and the Confucian system of China lasted for hundreds, even thousands, of years, underpinning cultures/nations that were objectively quite successful, but they cared little for individual rights. When one has multiple, competing, successful systems, how can one judge which is objectively the superior? We can all judge which one we personally prefer (individual rights for me, and most here I’d presume), but to say that one is better for everyone is to make a claim that is not necessarily supported by the evidence, and certainly not one that will win universal acclaim. If one system was so objectively better, people would presumably realize it and imitate it, but we see that this is not the case.
Just Say’n said in response to you that “The proof that you have a “right to speak” is found in the fact that you have the ability to speak”, but this is not so. We all have the ability to do many things, but this does not give us the right to do so. We have the ability to lie, cheat, steal, kill, but just having the ability does not justify the action. Something else must justify and condemn, and since utility is hardly a standard (as various people, organizations, and societies have succeeded by plotting an evil course), what then are we left with?
In the end where you end up seems to depend entirely on your underlying assumptions (axioms), i.e. where you began, and proving assumptions is difficult to impossible, depending on the assumption. Which all seems to support the idea the rights (and morality) are nothing more than invented ideas. And, yet, something tells me this is not so.
It was pointed out to me recently that is no such thing as a non-circular argument. If you pick out each word in an argument and begin looking them up in a dictionary you will soon find yourself seeing the previous words you looked up in the definitions of the current ones. That is what prompted me to say ‘fuck it’ and go with this argument: If it works then your assumptions are true. Of course, that may not hold. You might have something that works according to principles you are unaware of and your success is an accident.
+1 gadfly’s argument
Yield curve is inverted. Dow plunges 800 points. We may be on the cusp of another economic downturn.
Sweet…
Yeah. Should be some bargain basement pricing on some good stocks, if you have a job to pay for it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgyQcoV4AM8zJW.jpg:large
This is an image from my nightmares
You have very tame nightmares.
My nightmares usually involve hipster dude bros offering me some PBR and some stupid European version of American food (German pancakes). It gives me the creeps just thinking about it.
Shouldn’t that be “gives you the crepes thinking about it”?
WTF are German pancakes? Is that like a Cleveland Steamer or Dirty Sanchez?
No, nothing like that.
You start with a Polish Infantry regiment…
there’s an oven joke in there somewhere
“WTF are German pancakes?”
I have no idea, but that’s what the Irish Speedy Gonzalez is making in the picture
Mmmmm, I love German Pancakes.
https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchen/german-pancake-recipe-2125546
^ Hipster ^
Totes hipster. First had them in the ‘70s when my mother made them.
PBR works great to wash them down.
*Searches duckduckgo. Oh. German pancakes look exactly like what we call Dutch Babies.
https://altonbrown.com/dutch-baby-pancake-recipe/
German/Dutch, potato/potahto. Yeah, they’re the same thing.
Q: What do you call a rich German?
A: Dutch.
The one German dude I know thought it was funny.
I read that as the Dutch are horrible cultural appropriators. Christ, what assholes.
But we gave the world gin.
You are welcome.
I remember when folk were saying this about Bill Clinton. #Blaxit is real, y’all.
okay that was funny
Not long ago there was a discussion here about why there is no equivalent word for white people to ‘nigger’. I dont remember who said it but the best explanation was that whites do not have a collective identity. Call a white guy in a room any pejorative you want and I dont get the notion that the pejorative is aimed at me as well so I am not insulted. Until blacks get rid of the notion of a collective identity that word will have power. I found that guy’s routine offensive because it reeks of collective identity, not because he used the word nigger.
The racism thing is so tiresome to me. I just want to reply with “You aren’t black. You aren’t African American. You were born and raised here just like I was. You are an American.” Surprisingly many people find that offensive as well. Go figure.
I loved when I was jokingly called a “cracker”. I would always laugh and pretend to crack a whip.
Ah, so you actually know what the term means. Not many people do.
i prefer “white male oppressor”
“Privileged-American”
There is, but just not in our culture. Imagine yourself as a white guy, say, in Asia. You do your day to day thing, but you face a daily reminder that you are, legally, second-class, in many respects. You’re not in a situation where it is easy for you to just go back. You might be married to a local, or just don’t have the money. After the millionth time of a taxicab trying to rip you off, or being double-priced even in government-run parks, or your landlord not giving you back your deposit and know that you basically don’t have any legal recourse (I mean you can try, but good luck with that), etc. etc. etc.. And to top it all off, whenever you show a slight bit of annoyance at the situation, you are called a “bird-shit foreigner“, “ghost man”, “outsider person”, etc.. I bet you would start to feel the sting of “farang kee nok” or “gwailo” or “mat salleh“.
This is true. I have been to such places and experienced that very thing. I never felt the sting so much because racism permeates most other societies so much. They all refer to each other by race and most of them aren’t trying to insult as much as matter of factly acknowledge differences. I do admit, the east Asians have a special talent for racism.
east Asians have a special talent for racism
okay then
* checks sarcasm gauge *
Suthen, thanks for this. It pretty much expresses my own thinking on the world much better than I might have.
Vanity Fair has a brief moment of introspection and critical thinking. I am certain that it will not last.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/12/a-trump-haters-guide-to-mueller-skepticism
“IS THIS IT?: A TRUMP-HATER’S GUIDE TO MUELLER SKEPTICISM”
FTA:
“Partisanship is hostile to introspection, but at some point maybe we’ll look back and think again about what was unleashed in the panic over Russian influence. Trump’s White House has pursued what is arguably the harshest set of policies toward Russia since the fall of Communism—hardly something to celebrate—yet nearly all the pressure, from the center-left as much as the right, is toward making it even tougher. As for those tapping along to S.N.L. songs in praise of Mueller and his indictments, they might want to remember that Trump won’t always be in office. The weapons you create for your side today will be used by the other side against you tomorrow. Do we really want the special-counsel investigation to become a staple of presidential life? It’s a creation with few boundaries on scope and a setup that encourages the selection of a suspect followed by a search for the crime, rather than the other way around. This caused calamities in the era of Bill Clinton, and it doesn’t get any better just because the partisan dynamics are reversed.”
And
“Our justice system gives prosecutors a frightening amount of power as it is, and nothing tempts misuse of it quite like the belief in a narrative in the face of a disappointing witness. George Papadopoulos has told people he pleaded guilty to perjury because Mueller was threatening to prosecute him as an unregistered agent of Israel. Jerome Corsi insists that Mueller was (and is) threatening him with a raft of indictments unless he signed on to an untrue story of how he came to believe (or know) that WikiLeaks had hacked the e-mails of John Podesta.
We don’t know why Mueller feels Manafort is lying to prosecutors, but we do know that Mueller is either asking him about things that have little to do with Manfort’s guilty plea, i.e. acting as an unregistered agent of Ukraine, or else asking him things that have little to do with the original purpose of Mueller’s investigation, i.e. Russian conspiracy. The former would mean Mueller was tempting Manafort, deliberately or not, to make up a story to please federal prosecutors (“not just sing,” but “also compose,” as a judge on the case warned last May). The latter would mean Mueller was getting out on tangents and allowing his investigation, Starr-style, to lapse into a shape-shifting creature with few self-imposed limits. Furthermore, solitary confinement is severe punishment, and Manafort has been in it for months. No one doubts that Manafort is a liar, and everyone knows he’s maneuvering for a presidential pardon. He should go to jail for his financial fraud. But that doesn’t mean Mueller is proceeding with a proper sense of proportion or self-restraint.”
To be fair, though, the Russia Fever Dreams have been fruitful. We’re likely walking into a prolonged proxy war in Ukraine (which will likely escalate to a direct confrontation).
After imposing martial law and closing it’s borders, Ukraine has now called up its reservists.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/ukraine-calls-reservists-amid-tensions-russia-59570234
Remember, the cosmos who bought into a conspiracy theory that never made any sense from the beginning when they start pretending how opposed they are to the inevitable conflict about to unfold in Ukraine. They’re indistinguishable from neocons.
I don’t understand the motivation. Does Putin do this shit for cheap political points at home? Distractions? Intimidation?
If he wasn’t a dick, if Russia was a trustworthy and respectful neighbor, there would be huge opportunities right now. Eastern Europe wants nothing to do with the suicidal socialism of Western Europe. A Russian led central-European trade and maybe even defensive alliance could have been the alternative, if the Russians could stop acting like dicks.
I don’t understand it either. He’s taking a Machiavellian view that the state’s objective should enhance the power of the state. But he’s taking a narrow view of what power of the state means.
Hey would we go there? We have 0 interests
You know who else called up their reservists…
Sitting Bull?
Gaius Marius?
My First Sergeant?
The LA Kings?
Any bored dude going back for another round?
Terrific article Suthen!
The universe makes the rules, we do not.
Oh, but we’ll keep trying!