Weep Not
Weep Not, weep not,
She is not dead;
She’s resting in the bosom of Jesus.
Heart-broken husband – weep no more;
Grief-stricken son – weep no more;
Left-lonesome daughter – weep no more;
She’s only just gone home.
James Weldon Johnson[i]
This is the third in the three-part sub-series on the Plan of Salvation. The first part is here, and the second part is here.
The Spirit World
Death, regardless of method, results in the separation of the soul. The body goes into the ground, and the spirit goes into the spirit world to await the resurrection.
The spirit world is comprised of two major divisions. The righteous – those who have accepted and lived the gospel – go to paradise. Paradise is “a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.”[ii] Those who have not accepted or have not lived the gospel go to spirit prison. This is where those who have actively rejected the gospel pay for their own sins.[iii] This time of suffering is what we call hell.[iv]
In the spirit world, we will be reunited with our loved ones who have pre-deceased us. Joseph Smith said:
I have a father, brothers, children, and friends who have gone to a world of spirits. They are only absent for a moment. They are in the spirit, and we shall soon meet again. . . . When we depart [from this life], we shall hail our mothers, fathers, friends, and all whom we love, who have fallen asleep in Jesus. . . . It will be an eternity of felicity. [v]
What is a Spirit?
A spirit is a non-corporeal person. Spirits are adults – even the spirits of people who died as children. Our spirits were adult before we were born into mortality, and they still are.[vi] They look like they did in mortality, but they are perfect in form. They take with them all the attitudes and appetites they had in mortality.[vii] According to a revelation received by Joseph Smith, spirits are material – simply a finer grade of matter than we are.[viii]
Where is the Spirit World?
According to Brigham Young – the second president of the Church – the spirit world is here, all around us.[ix] We simply cannot perceive them because our eyes aren’t pure enough.[x]
Missionary Work
The spirits who have accepted the gospel and received the needed ordinances don’t get to spend all their time lounging around, however. They are actively engaged in teaching the gospel to the spirits in prison[xi]. Once one of the spirits in prison accepts the atonement they are cleansed from their sins, and once their ordinances have been done, they move to paradise. There is, you might imagine, some urgency on both sides of the veil to get this work done. Elder Neal A. Maxwell, an apostle, estimated that there are seventy billion people in the spirit world.[xii] What percentage of those are in spirit prison is unknown, but consider that the majority of humanity has lived in a time when the gospel and its ordinances were not available. Each of those must have the gospel presented to them in the spirit world, and the ordinances performed on their behalf in the mortal world, before their final judgement can occur. During the millennium, the temples will be open 24 hours to catch up on all the ordinance work which will be possible once we can consult the resurrected dead directly about when and where they lived, and how they fit into the overall family tree.
The Resurrection
Resurrection is the joining of the spirit with a perfect and immortal body. This will happen to everyone ever born on the earth[xiii] as a result of the Atonement. This is a gift from our Heavenly Parents and Jesus. Jesus was the first person resurrected, and others who had died before him were resurrected at the time of his resurrection. Since Christs’ resurrection, individuals have been resurrected when it was necessary to their mission. As an example, Moroni died sometime after A.D. 420, but he was a resurrected person when he appeared to Joseph Smith in 1822. Additional examples include John the Baptist, (who restored the Aaronic priesthood [xiv]) and the apostles Peter and James (who, along with John the Beloved[xv], restored the Melchizedek priesthood [xvi]).
The Morning of the First Resurrection
When Christ returns at the beginning of the millennium, the righteous among the living will be caught up to greet him, and the righteous dead (those who accepted his gospel on earth, or who never had the chance to hear it on earth but accepted it in the spirit world) will be resurrected to descend with him. Once Christ has descended to the earth, there will be another resurrection of those who were unwilling to accept the gospel in mortality, but accepted it in the spirit world. These two resurrections are what Christ referred to as the resurrection of life.[xvii] It is also referred to as the resurrection of the just.[xviii]
The Resurrection of Damnation
Those who reject the gospel in the spirit prison will remain there until the end of the millennium. They will then be resurrected in what Christ called the resurrection of damnation.[xix]
Judgement Day
After the millennium, and after all of us are resurrected, comes the final judgement. Each of us will stand before Christ and be judged for our actions in mortality.[xx] We say “stand before” Christ, but I believe it will be more along the lines of a private interview where we will review our life with Him, and we will come to a mutual agreement as to where we should go. Christ will be our judge because he paid the debt for our sins and suffered our afflictions in the Atonement, and is thus best able to give a rendering of our account which is both just and merciful. The final judgement will determine where we go for eternity. Both grace and works will factor into the determination, but the precise mix is unknown. As I mentioned in the religion poll, my understanding of grace is evolving.
With a very few exceptions, our eternal destination will not be a punishment. It will be a reward for the level of faithfulness we showed in mortality. In the Joseph Smith article, Mojeaux made the following comment in reply to Creosote Achilles:
Mojeaux on September 17, 2018 at 12:39 pm
“Not bad, but no where near as good as it could be.”
But you might not be comfortable in what is as good as it could be.
This is a crucial point. Because Christ is a merciful judge, we will be sent not to a place which will make us miserable, but rather to where we will happiest. We would not want to be in a place of greater glory than we are able to bear. The prophet Moroni said:
Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell.[xxi]
Kingdoms of Glory
In a response to Tundra in the first article, I said (in part) “There isn’t really a burning hell in Mormon theology, simply various degrees of distance from God.” This was the seed which grew into these articles on the Plan of Salvation. The degrees of distance are, with one exception, referred as kingdoms of glory. The kingdoms are named the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Telestial Kingdom, and their glories are compared to the sun, moon, and stars respectively.[xxii] The final destination is not a kingdom of glory, and is simply referred to as Outer Darkness. What follows are brief descriptions of the kingdoms, and what kind of people will live in them. For full descriptions, see D&C Section 76.
The Celestial Kingdom[xxiii]
The glory of the sun. This is the brass ring. This is the kingdom every member aspires to. Those who live in the Celestial Kingdom will dwell in the presence of our Heavenly Parents forever. Christ and the Holy Ghost will also live here This is eternal life.[xxiv] The people who reach this kingdom will be gods.[xxv]To reach this kingdom, one must have accepted Christ and His Atonement, received the necessary ordinances, and lived in accordance with the teachings of the gospel. The exception to this rule is little children. Little children who die before the age of eight are innocent, and will live in the Celestial Kingdom.[xxvi] Also, those who had no opportunity to accept the gospel in this life, but did accept it in the spirit world will live here.
The Terrestrial Kingdom[xxvii]
The glory of the moon. Christ and the Holy Ghost visit, but not our Heavenly Parents. This is the kingdom of the less valiant. These are the people who rejected the gospel in mortality, and accepted it the spirit world, or were members of the Church who didn’t live up to the principles of the gospel.
The Telestial Kingdom[xxviii]
The glory of the stars. The Holy Ghost visits here, but neither our Parents, nor Christ come. This is the kingdom for the unrepentant who accepted Christ neither in mortality, nor in the spirit world. These are the people who stayed in the spirit prison, paying for their own sins, and only came out in the resurrection of damnation.
Outer Darkness[xxix]
This is not a kingdom of glory. No member of the godhead comes here. Those who dwell here are permanently cut off from the presence of our Parents.[xxx] Getting here requires a total rejection of God’s plan after knowing the truth of it. Satan and his angels will be here. The people who go here from mortality are referred to as the Sons of Perdition. These are the damned, and this is as close as our theology gets to the classical burning hell. They have voluntarily put themselves into a state where they are incapable of repentance. Of these, Joseph Smith said:
He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it;[xxxi]
Compared to the kingdoms of glory, not many mortals will wind up here. It requires deliberately rejecting a level of spiritual knowledge most simply cannot attain.
Final Thoughts
It should go without saying, but the kingdoms of glory are incomprehensibly better than our lives here. When Joseph Smith was shown the vision recorded in Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants, his description of the Telestial kingdom – the lowest kingdom of glory – was “And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;”[xxxii] Imagine how much better the others are. Compare the brightness of the stars in the night sky to the brightness of the moon or the sun.
[i] James Weldon Johnson, God’s Trombones Seven Negro Sermons in Verse (New York, Penguin Books, 1927) “Go Down Death” 27
[iv] Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual: Section 76
[v] Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Salt Lake City, Deseret Book Company, 1980) 6:316
[vi] Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine Sermons and Writings of President Joseph F. Smith (Salt Lake City, Deseret Book Company, 1919) 455
[vii] The Post-Mortal Spirit World
[ix] Introduction to the Book of Alma
[xii] Neal A. Maxwell All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1979), 99
[xv] John was not a resurrected being, because John has not died. See John 21:22
[xviii] Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual: Section 76
[xxii] Bible Dictionary: Degrees of Glory
while the theology is interesting, I have read multiple trans-humanists saying that death will no longer be a thing within our lifetime.
There are other views.
It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Thanks for the information and all the effort you’ve put into these articles.
It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.
I’m sure we will eliminate death AND refuse to change social security benefits.
Immortality with retirement at 63, or you hate grandmas!
I have read multiple trans-humanists saying that death will no longer be a thing within our lifetime.
If they are saying that death will become preventable, I highly doubt this is possible. Nothing lives forever, and even if it were possible to prevent the aging process there would still be myriad ways in which someone could die.
If, however, they are being cheeky, seeing as death technically occurs outside each of our “life”-times, then I will allow it.
In any event, trans-humanism strikes me as being a secular religion.
There was an episode in Black Mirror where they are able to download your intact mind out of your body and into a server. The server runs a simulation program where you can virtually live forever. Obviously a lot of details lacking here, but that’s the concept.
I have no idea of the feasibility 20-40 years out and am waiting for our IT Glibs to chime in with laughter. I have read of at least one serious company that is pursuing this concept.
I believe this concept was also in Eon by Greg Bear.
Poul Anderson used something similar in his Anson Guthrie novels.
I have no idea of the feasibility 20-40 years out and am waiting for our IT Glibs to chime in with laughter. I have read of at least one serious company that is pursuing this concept.
IMO, the people who usually buy heavily into this are I fucking love science (fiction) types.
There are a few hurdles to overcome. First is that I’ve never seen any method to actually “download” somebody’s brain into a computer. You can replicate the electrical patterns of a brain in a computer, but I don’t really think that’s any different than creating a video game avatar of your physical characteristics. That isn’t you in the game, it’s a computer model configured to look like you. Similarly, I’m skeptical that loading brain patterns into a computer will result in anything more than a computer with humanoid reactions to certain stimuli. It also has the Star Trek teleportation issue baked in. If I find a way to actually transfer the data from my brain to the computer without just making a copy, whats to say that we didn’t just make a destructive copy. We eradicated me from existence and created a copy of “me” in a computer.
Second is that we don’t really understand where the “spark of reason” comes from. What part makes you, you? We have seen where various types of brain damage change somebody’s perception of their surroundings or alter their personality, but nobody is has been able to point to a certain part of the brain and say “that’s you… Without that part, you’re not a person anymore”. It is possible that the whole is larger than the sum of its parts when it comes to personhood.
There is the matter of the body and its effect on the mind, as well. Are you, you without the peculiarities of your endocrine system and anatomy that affect your mind?
Removing these physical variables would likely change your personality considerably.
It was also done in the Thousand Culture series by John Barnes. Hell, it was done as a concept on an episode of the Max Headroom television series.
We’re missing a lot of steps to get there. First we’d need to be able to read the data out of a brain, then we’d have to store it somehow, then we’d have to emulate everything, and at that point, we’ve developed independent AI’s.
“Hell, it was done as a concept on an episode of the Max Headroom television series.”
If you employ Max Headroom to make an argument you have already won. Well done
First time I read this was in Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition.
Yeah, I think we are a long way out from being able to digitize your consciousness and operate in a virtual reality, but the guy does make a compelling case that you might be smart to freeze your brain until that time does come around. Worse case, you are still dead and left less money to your heirs. Best case, you “wake up” as a recovered soul in virtual reality.
Lol the problem is FAR worse than leaving it to the IT glibs. The Bio-Medical glibs have a shit ton of problems to solve, none of which do they even have promising leads on before the IT glibs even have a problem to start cracking. Realistically we are probably a hundred years away from having enough understanding of what Consciousness is to even consider such a project.
Lets put it this way. We are far closer to putting a stop to aging than we are to actually downloading a persons consciousness
Altered Carbon had something similar as well, where your consciousness was loaded into some kind of memory device that could be transferred to new bodies when the old one died.
If I remember correctly wasn’t that sort of how they solved interstellar travel? Instead of sending your body to a distant planet, they would needlecast your consciousness to the planet where it would be put into a local body.
Maybe? I’ve only seen the show, not read the book.
The “stack” that held your consciousness was implanted at the base of the skull. If you were shot/stabbed in that spot, it would destroy the stack and thus cause “real death”.
It also led to the hilarity of the superhot Mexican detective chick bringing her grandma back in the body of a recently killed biker type.
The books were all pretty decent. Interesting gimmick because you can put your hero into any sort of body you want for a particular story.
Like ManBearPig’s predicitons about apocalypse, I doubt this happens any time soon without the solution being ridding ourselves of our biological form. That having been said, I am going to hell when I die. That’s where all my friends are going/have gone to. And I will not be in line with the usual riff-raff, because I will have a management position when I get there. So neener-neener.
Heh. Orson Scott Card defined the Telestial Kingdom as “the only place there’ll be enough Mormons for a good softball tournament.” We’ll probably bump into each other there.
that being said The Terrestrial Kingdom does not sound that bad. Seems as far as I can get
Also are there conjugal visits in spirit prison?
In theory there are, but in reality they are pretty rare. The main problem is that ghost lovers are pretty reluctant to engage in sex because of how hard it is to clean the cum.
Pretty embarrassing to show up at a haunted house with sheets that are stiff and stained.
I believe that the spirit prison is more a state of mind than a penitentiary 😀 . Life there will be much like life here, so spouses who want to will be able to live together.
I see it as a big convention in a nice hotel with fun workshops, a buffet, and a pool and stuff, but you can’t leave the premises.
Welcome to Hotel California?
Christ, I hope that fucking Henley isn’t there.
You’d hope for better guitar playing in the afterlife. But if you go to hell, I’m sure you’ll hear the Eagles.
This on repeat for eternity.
*turns life around*
I was stuck in the back seat for an 8-hour road trip and the two stoners in front refused to change the tape… 8 hours of Bob Marley’s greatest hits.
You are dissing on Joe Walsh?
There is a special hell for people who don’t like Walsh.
Better than burning in an eternal lake of fire just cause I never heard of this dude named Jesus.
Somewhat related and not meant to be dismissive of the topic about the Mormon conception of an afterlife, but I think the mythology of faith is less important to civilization than the philosophy of faith. I’d venture to guess that the belief in an afterlife and its specifics has had less of a civilizing impact on society than the radical moral code that Christianity first developed (which was radical in comparison to the prevailing Greco-Roman moral code).
Especially considering the fact that most Christian sects are very vague about what earns a parishioner redemption. “Faith alone” or “grace” are not really a quantifiable attribute.
. I’d venture to guess that the belief in an afterlife and its specifics has had less of a civilizing impact on society than the radical moral code that Christianity first developed (which was radical in comparison to the prevailing Greco-Roman moral code).
I think the afterlife and its specifics only matter insofar as they reliably inform the morality. If I have a kid and I have a choice between Moloch, who, based on the relevant mythology, may or may not decide to eat my baby, and the Abrahamic God who damns those who feed babies to Moloch, who am I going to choose to follow?
I often consider Orthodox Judaism where the topic of an afterlife is vague and ill-defined, at best. The lack of a reward for moral behavior in this life does not detour many of them from following the law.
Who are you calling “them” there buddy!
I forgot the parentheses
(((better?)))
“If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
Let the wise man announce him and kings fear him.
Kings, if you oppress me, if your eminencies disdain
The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow,
My avenger is in the heavens: learn to tremble.
Such, at least, is the fruit of a useful creed.”
…Voltaire (?)
It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.
The future? Nobody goes there, anymore. It’s too crowded.
The Future
The glory of the sun. This is the brass ring. This is the kingdom every member aspires to. Those who live in the Celestial Kingdom will dwell in the presence of our Heavenly Parents forever. Christ and the Holy Ghost will also live here This is eternal life.
Pass. I’ll bet none of the best musicians (or you people) will ever make it there. Booooooring.
Thanks, G! I’ve really enjoyed your articles.
Well, I’m going to Hell for sure. Yahweh read some of my Jewsdays.
Dude. That fate was sealed in your teen year back in the 1800s.
There’s a reason I made you do the baptism shit with my son. I wasn’t going actually ask to be hit by lightning bolts.
You still gonna have to wait in line with the plebes, while I have me a cushy management job…
I dunno. You might be surprised. God likes music, and he might give extra grace points to his favorite musicians.
From a reliable source:
I’m really hoping that Gaiman did right by PTerry for the adaptation. Due out in the first half of next year.
I hope they don’t fuck it up too badly. It was such a funny book.
Gaiman is involved, and said it was close to PTerry’s dying wish. The cast looks pretty good, and the costuming works from what’s been released. Gaiman’s already said he’s going to be including some of the stuff they had discussed for the sequel into the series, and he’s been involved in production before (and he’s running the second season of American Gods).
God likes music
The Church of Christ says that only Pentatonix is making it through the pearly gates.
Assemblies of God say without Strats and Zildjians, they’re SOL.
The Reformed Presbyterian Church allows only a capella psalm singing in its services.
It seems obvious that we don’t actually get to know what the afterlife holds in store for us. Life would suck without it’s mysteries. If I only act as a decent and moral person for fear or eventual punishment after death, I’m merely engaging in self preservation of a different sort. I believe that living my life correctly here and now is it’s own reward and none is further needed nor expected.
relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7dPlQCIWk
OT:
Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost
Gee. Who would’ve seen that coming?
Over/under on when Mr. ‘Not that hard’ is fighting a harassment suit?
The woke Left’s puritanism will inevitably lead to the prudish ideals of the old Religious Right. Amazingly (but not surprisingly), the same people who once criticized the Religious Right’s prudishness are muted or supportive of the woke Left’s puritanism.
The Pence Rule is the way of the future (but, also the past)
The woke left is much worse. Traditional Christianity was rarely radical. Whether they believed in “faith alone”, “grace”, or “good deeds”, most Christians usually said “okay, good enough” and got on with life. There were limits built into the belief and rarely was it taken too far. The whole “who’ll cast the fist stone?” thing.
The Spanish Inquisition is the most notorious example of Christianity taken too far, and it usually exaggerated and taken out of historical context (a country newly liberated from 8 centuries of Islamic rule).
Islam and the Progressives have no limits and will go into purity spirals. When Muslims aren’t killing infidels, they are often fighting amongst themselves. The French Revolution is the ultimate example of a leftist purity spiral. Once they ran out of opponents to feed to the guillotine. they started in on their slightly less dedicated brethren. The Chinese Cultural Revolution played out in a similar fashion.
Maybe the Islamists are just 600 years behind the Christians. Lot’s of religious persecution in the Middle Ages, that is when they weren’t going on Crusades to kill Infidels.
Of course, the central figure of Christianity wasn’t a warlord with a child bride, so maybe Islam isn’t 600 years behind Christianity and just has a lot of extra baggage to unpack.
Wahhabism was their back to the Koran religious reformation. What’s in their respective books determines where any reformation will go.
The best part about all of this is that the women are peeved that men are scared to be around them, but yet want every accusation of harassment to be taken as gospel.
The cynical part of me think that they hate the Pence Rule because it takes away their ability to outright screw a guy’s life over.
Were these experiments prescient?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun#Mouse_experiments
I have never heard of those experiments before. Fascinating! Thanks for the link, Q!
Seconded
Wow. We’re mice.
Careful there with such generalities! I am a rat!
The Stainless Steel Rat?
Only if a TOP MAN like Calhoun is in charge. Kept food and water abundant but instituted rent control.
“Men have to step up[…]and ‘not let fear be a barrier'”
Why? Why is it on men to fix any of this? How ’bout this: you go start your own private equity firm or venture capital fund and hire only women. Stop making everything someone else’s responsibility. It’s pretty obvious that #metoo is completely out of control and is only 10% about empowering victims to speak up; the other 90% is about misandry and having a bludgeon with which to beat your enemies into submission. You can hardly blame those enemies for creating strategies to survive.
Why is it on men to fix any of this?
Good question. The assumption that men have to step up sounds awfully patriarchal. I didn’t sign up for this equality thing just to have all the responsibilities of a patriarch but none of the benefits.
That’s the gist of their argument though, isn’t it? Just like the asshats peddling reverse racism as the cure for past racism, these metooers are not asking for a level playing field, but one where they reap the benefits and men pay the price. And these will be the first ones that will immediately play the wounded doe if they can reap benefits & sympathy for it.
They want the rules and the game to be rigged in their favor.
I was just talking with an ex-coworker about an incident we had about 5 years ago. We had a female project manager who always wanted to be “one of the boys” and would swear, tell rude jokes and act like a guy so she would fit in.
At one point, she had some issue she wanted to fix. Every developer/engineer she talked with told her that it was too complex and costly for us to do. The customer would just have to live without that feature. She hated the answer and would bring it up all the time. Finally after about a month of this, she brought it up in a group meeting and my ex-coworker rolled his eyes and started in with “It can’t be done” answer (I was about a half second behind him).
She flipped out, swore at him (and the rest of us), slammed her laptop shut and stormed out. We all sat there stunned and wondered what the fuck just happened. Turns out she did to to HR to report us, but another woman who was at the meeting talked her out of making a formal complaint.
Long story short, the project manager had to go work with another group because from that point on we all treated her like an unexploded land mine and wouldn’t meet with her 1 on 1 or send any private emails to her because we were terrified it would bite us in the ass.
Yeah, this guy is going to be wondering how he got to the point where he is being sued in about a year. The only variable I’d want to know before putting down money on exactly what day he gets fucked is when promotions and raises are handed out.
Long story short, the project manager had to go work with another group because from that point on we all treated her like an unexploded land mine and wouldn’t meet with her 1 on 1 or send any private emails to her because we were terrified it would bite us in the ass.
There’s a woman in my office that I’m quite hesitant about interacting with. She has made her views very clear, and she’s a victim waiting for a transgression. I got roped into a conversation about how some communication from management was sexist because it went into more detail about the women’s dress code at a certain event than the men’s dress code. As I waited for the first opportunity to extricate myself, I sat in pained silence. Evidently I didn’t hide it well because she asked me what was wrong. I responded with “oh, I’m not allowed to have an opinion on such things” and got the hell out. The funny thing was I don’t think she understood that I was being sarcastic.
I applied for a position in a department with 2 positions open, and when I discovered that she got the other position, I was no longer excited at the prospect of getting that job. Thankfully I was under qualified and didn’t get it.
With people like that, BCC is your friend.
In a previous job, there was a woman like that; I blind copied my manager on every single email interaction with her.
I thought it was BBC. Man, I can’t keep up with all the slang words anymore.
BCC for your boss, BBC for your wife.
Mr. “Just Don’t Be An Asshole” is missing the biggest fear of these people: false accusations. They are trying to minimize the risk of false accusations by avoiding situations which would make it easy to make a false accusation.
This is exactly right. I’m not worried about being an asshole. I’m worried about encountering an asshole.
Dude, women don’t do that. And if they did, it’s justified by billions of years of the patriarchy’s existence.
“Just try not to be an asshole.”
And I suppose you suffer from the delusion you’ll be using *your* definition of “asshole”.
Haha, sucker.
On topic since we’re talking religion:
https://besumone.com/blogs/religion/the-7-deadly-sins-from-social-media
Seems about right.
Are you bob?
Bob on December 03, 2018
You left out Grindr.
Easy to say. I’d love to believe she’s in heaven with my dad, but I got nothing.
Don’t feel like you have to answer, Gad. It’s an empty statement.
This might be late for the thread, but being Gadiaton’s co-religionist, I can relate. I’ve been taught the things he’s been outlining for as long as I can remember and I used to find comfort in knowing what was supposed to come next. Then my mom died (coming up on 4 years on Wednesday) and it didn’t bring much comfort. I can have faith (Hebrews 11:1, faith) that she is there, but that hardly dulls the pain that she is no longer here; that 2 of my children have been born since she died; and that my dad re-married a grade A bitch. I guess i can take some solace that dad is going to get chewed out for his poor choices when he and mom are reunited.
MB: I’m sorry for your loss, and the fact that your children will never know their real Grandmother. Also, sorry your new “mom” is a real bitch.
I can’t speak for you, but I never knew how much I’d miss her.
BP: there are reasons that she is “my dad’s wife” rather than my stepmother.
I’m also sorry for your loss. I honestly don’t think there has been a day go by that I haven’t thought of her, how much I miss her, or how much I’d give to give her that one last hug. Also, I don’t know that I ever knew that emotional pain could be physical. Loss and grief are not things to be trifled with.
I’m typically a “invisible hand” kind of guy, but I’m ready to throw it down the drain and get authoritarian if “the hand” doesn’t get winter parking figured out.
We lost like 5-10% of our parking spaces this morning! come on people.
Somewhat on topic and I’m curious, anyone around here watch The Good Place?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Place
It is honestly the most brilliantly original thing I have seen on television in decades. Somehow they have managed to make a 30 minute prime time sitcom that involves fairly serious discussions of ethics and moral philosophy (one of the characters is a professor of such), keep it from being a woke snooze fest, and make it hillarious. Plus even though she is dumb as a box of rocks in real life Kristen Bell is almost always worth looking at.
I love that show. Well, did. Third season is turning into a bit of a dud for me.
I loved season 1, 2 was still good, I haven’t seen 3 yet
The British chick is pretty damned hot too.
Yes, the first two seasons were amazing (the Trolley Problem, oh how I love you).. Third season has its highlights, but I miss some of the insanity that was ever present in the earlier seasons. I’m hoping they’ve got a plan written and this is just the middle section.
If Ted Danson greets you in the afterlife than you have to be in hell. Ted Danson is a monster
If there is such a place, you’ll get a chance to meet Swiss. All of us who know him personally have had a hell of a time trying to find a character flaw. Bastard doesn’t have any.
You mean besides his dislike of puns?
*narrows gays*
That is one of his great virtues.
That’s because he’s just another Tulpa.
Oh, if you only knew. I do have things to answer for.
” even though she is dumb as a box of rocks in real life”
Kristen Bell could coach the Chicago Bulls and nobody would even know they fired Fred Hoiberg.
… go on.
/John Paxson
Baltimore, never change.
https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2018/12/02/woman-with-a-heart-of-gold-good-samaritan-stabbed-to-death-in-baltimore/
Diversity is our strength.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households
That’s a much bigger issue than illegal immigration.
The numbers on Medicaid across all demographics are just shameful and will, IMHO, be the proximate cause of the final economic collapse.
Those Medicaid costs for illegal immigrants are paid by the individual states, though. The federal government does not, by statute, provide funds for illegal immigrant welfare programs. Medicaid is a system partially funded by the individual state and the federal government.
But, yes, Medicaid is bankrupting states. Particularly wealthier states that are far more generous with the program, but receive a smaller matching rate from the federal government
The local paper had an article recently on how Medicaid was busting its budget in Virginia after the expansion, which the had GOP fought for years. It blamed the overages on “bad estimating”, and that it was totally unforeseen.
The cost overruns on Medicaid expansion was expected by anyone who was paying attention (and has occurred in every state, including those who did not expand their Medicaid system). It’s called “The Woodwork Effect”.
Also, the expansion has provided a perverse incentive so that those states that expanded the program prioritize enrolling poor single people (newly eligible) over poor people that previously qualified for the Medicaid program. The reimbursement rate for the newly eligible is around 90% despite a state’s wealth level. In contrast, those previously eligible still receive the standard reimbursement rate (which ranges from 50% to 75%, depending on a state’s median income).
Expanding Medicaid was a terrible idea. The Medicaid system was already growing in cost and now it is largely insurmountable to correct these costs.
Oh I agree, I cursed audibly when I read the headline. An excerpt of the stupidity/mendaciousness.
Nationalizing all those bankrupt programs under a single universal service will solve all those problems. The HHS will simply mandate that they not be bankrupt anymore.
“If we run out of money, we’ll just print more!”
The Fed needs only mint a $20,000,000,000,000 coin every year to pay for all the health services Americans (and our extra special guests!) might ever need. It’s not like China will stop buying our T-bills. They’ve always bought our T-bills.
Those Medicaid costs for illegal immigrants are paid by the individual states, though. The federal government does not, by statute, provide funds for illegal immigrant welfare programs. Medicaid is a system partially funded by the individual state and the federal government.
That’s the way its supposed to work, sure. I can assure you, though, that every state has multiple ways of diverting federal Medicaid matching funds away from providing health care to Medicaid beneficiaries. Here in AZ, we will be funding teacher raises out of federal Medicaid matching funds. The Medicaid matching funds we got for Medicaid expansion are mostly going to non-healthcare programs. Money isn’t just fun, its fungible and easily repurposed.
So I don’t buy for one instant the idea that no federal money is being spent to provide Medicaid benefits to illegals.
Do you have a linked article about the AZ issue? I’m not familiar with that topic.
But, yeah, all funds are fungible to an extent (unless it’s money that goes to Planned Parenthood, then we’re suppose to pretend like money is never fungible)
Just my observations and a little math on the Medicaid expansion money. The expansion is funded by a tax (pardon me “assessment”) on hospitals. Whatever we pay in the assessment should come back to us as payments for Medicaid services, only with the 2:1 federal match added on. Oddly, we are basically breaking even on the assessment, which means that the 2:1 federal match money is going somewhere else.
The teacher raises are supposed to be funded in part by lower Medicaid costs and with expanding that assessment. So the same money which is being taken from hospitals now and generating federal matching funds is being increased, and with not even the pretense that the hospitals will come out ahead. That 2:1 federal matching money is going somewhere, but it sure isn’t coming to us.
When the federal teat dries up, and it will, the whole house of cards is going to come crashing down.
“The teacher raises are supposed to be funded in part by lower Medicaid costs and with expanding that assessment.”
So they aren’t actually using the money from the Medicaid match (which would be against federal rules), but instead imagining that perhaps there will be cost savings (that will most definitely not materialize) in order to come up with the money for the teacher raises.
These are the same shenanigans that so many states employ to provide a balance budget each year (which is required in every state except for one).
So they aren’t actually using the money from the Medicaid match
They are getting federal matching funds created by the hospital assessment.
That money is not going being used to pay Medicaid costs.
So I think they are using the money from the Medicaid match for non-Medicaid purposes. I’m sure its being laundered first, but every penny that a hospital puts into an assessment creates two pennies of federal matching funds. Those two pennies aren’t coming back to Medicaid providers. Where are they going, then?
Not possible. The gang at TOS has emphatically informed me over and over that illegals can’t get welfare.
Correct. Also, this is just fear mongering by racists Republicans.
They are not illegals: just undocumented, which means that illegals are not getting any welfare!
/progtard
And they are all here to work hard, be patriotic non-rent seeking heroes. Gillespie himself has assured me many times.
Welch is also fond of qualifying his statements about illegal immigrants being a net boon with “once you throw out education”. So if you ignore the costs they add to educate all of them they are a positive.
Well yeah, there are lots of budgets that could be markedly improved by throwing out one of your biggest costs too.
I don’t know how anyone can quantify whether illegal immigration is a net boon or a net cost, since the primary defining characteristic of illegal immigration is that they are not easily identifiable, because they lack a domestic paper trail.
Legal immigration is no doubt a net gain, but I have no idea how anyone can study the effects of illegal immigration. That’s like studying any self-declared classification- you have to rely on the respondent telling the truth in a situation where many are incentivized to lie.
Isn’t that the dream problem for statisticians? You can pull whatever number out of your ass that you want. For sure it will make your preconceived conclusion absolutely true. And no one can gainsay your conclusions because you KNOW that they don’t have any accurate data either.
Think tank money for the win!
One of the main reasons why I don’t think we should use statistical analysis with multiple variables and a value judgement (how do we define “net gain” or “net cost”?) as evidence in support of any public policy. It’s scientism for the sake of scientism.
Legal immigration is no doubt a net gain
From a purely financial perspective I am doubtful if this is the case. For this to be so, the average immigrant would have to be on net more productive than the average native. From a government only perspective, this is not so, as the average immigrant pays fewer taxes but takes greater welfare. From an economy-wide perspective the case is much stronger, but I am unsure what side of the balance an objective analysis would land.
Legal immigration is no doubt a net gain
More likely? Sure. No doubt? I dunno, given that study on welfare utilization.
I have no idea how anyone can study the effects of illegal immigration
The one place where we know to the highest degree of certainty who is or isn’t an illegal is in prison. I have seen studies that illegals are overrepresented as violent offenders, by a lot. I have no doubt most of those are in the drug trade, so SLD applies.
This gets back into the question of “how do you know”, but we sure see a lot of sketchy “Medicaid” recipients who have no English. On occasion, when we need to track one down, they often have disappeared, and we get a vague story about “family” back in Mexico.
a value judgement (how do we define “net gain” or “net cost”?)
Once you get beyond net gain/cost to the government (determinable on taxes paid v government expenditures on), you are deep into the subjectivity of sorting out the value of voluntary economic transactions (and that’s leaving aside even more intangible non-economic values).
That doesn’t make a bit of sense and has nothing to with those statistics.
Forget it Drake, it is Welchtown.
It isn’t so much about welfare as my pet peeve that any time Welch talks about immigration, he makes it seem like every immigrant pays four times their body weight in taxes and it is super awesome. Then he starts throwing out caveats like you have to ignore the costs of educating all the illegal kids. (there are a couple others, but I’m not willing to go relisten to the 5th column to remember them).
Kmele Foster is the only reason to listen to the Fifth Column anymore.
Kmele for president
WTF? How is this possible? I had to get my parents to sign some bond thing when I was getting a permanent resident card after we got married where they guaranteed that she wouldn’t be a deadbeat on welfare and if she was, they were going to bill my parents.
I fucking hate ICE even more now if it turns out that they slickered me and I was a sap for signing that shit.
Have we finally hit the limit on denial of reality?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/emile-ratelband-loses-age-change-suit_us_5c0556dee4b07aec57512a0c
TW: HuffPo
He forgot to switch genders and/or races at the same time.
I’m shocked they didn’t agree and yank his pension.
If he had succeeded, think of how many people would have declared themselves 65 and started collecting pensions immediately.
This is another perfect example of an issue where the only defense that they can come up with is “Because! It is different”
I don’t see where the quantity of people who have weighed in with an opinion in a debate has any bearing on the validity of the argument. I hope he appeals so he can force the court to quantify how many people have to debate an issue before it can be considered valid.
RIP Paul Sherwen – I’ll miss “something very special” during the TDF.
“I’ve never seen such an outpouring,” Phil Liggett said. “I’m convinced Paul had no idea how much he was loved. But the answer is clear today.”
It was Monday morning in the U.S., but late afternoon in South Africa, where Liggett, the longtime television commentator and voice of the Tour de France, was on the telephone from his home in the Limpopo province, some 300 miles northeast of Johannesburg. I’d phoned him to talk about Paul Sherwen, Liggett’s TV partner of more than 30 years, who died suddenly on Dec. 2, at age 62, at his house in Uganda, stunning the entire sport of cycling.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cyclings-phil-says-goodbye-to-cyclings-paul-1543861003
That sucks. The Tour announcing team was first rate. I mostly watch the Tour for the scenery, but I really liked Phil and Paul.
Hot Yinzer on Yinzer action! hahaha….I’ve never seen someone actually be headbutted outside of movies before.
That’s a pretty cheap shot.
Apparently the guy on the receiving end was the instigator, though. That’s what the girl who recorded it says, anyway.
FIFY
https://twitter.com/munwarenj/status/1068802623946448897
French “Yellow Vest” protest spreads to Belgium.
It would be sweet poetic justice if a carbon tax is the incident that ends the EU supranational state
It would be sweet poetic justice if a carbon tax is the incident that ends the EU supranational state
It is unfortunate that such a development would be a long, drawn out process. If it were possible for it to be condensed down to a single evening, the schadenfreude would greatly exceed that of the 2016 election.
Couldn’t help but think of the earlier WaPo/Tucker Carlson/Daily Stormer thing when I read this
It’s amazing to me that David Duke is still around.
I like our Revit instructor, but she’s been going over saving and organizing PDFs for over forty minutes.
Oh, thank God, we’ve moved on to dissociating local and central files… an option given in a radial in the open menu. Really getting out in the weeds here.
https://jacobitemag.com/2018/11/29/against-the-zeitgeist/
“Against the Zeitgeist”
An article based upon a speech given by Jeff Deist (Mises Institute) at the Property and Freedom Society (perhaps the most controversial sentence ever written).
FTA:
“Today, accordingly, the differences between neoliberals and neoconservatives are more tone and style than substance. Yet shockingly, or perhaps not shockingly, our Zeitgeist Libertarians are right there with them, on a parallel track between them: sharing their ends and only quibbling about means.
Today’s Zeitgeist Libertarians:
Are similarly globalist and universalist in outlook — and not the good kind of globalist, the market globalist who cheers when commerce triumphs over government, but the bad kind of political globalist;
Hate Trump and consider Hillary Clinton the lesser of evils — when they aren’t openly praising her;
Accept, or at least fail to be exercised by, U.S. interventionism, nation building, and pax Americana — foreign policy always takes a distant back seat to social and cultural issues. They dislike Ron Paul, for example, but offer only muted criticisms of “statesmen” like the late John McCain;
Accept the role of the Federal Reserve, and merely advocate tinkering with “rules-based” reforms;
Accept the legitimacy of supra-national organizations — even as such organization clearly attenuate supposedly cherished democracy — lest they be lumped in with those reactionary “Get Out of the UN” types;
Accept regulated capitalism and the regulatory state as pragmatic, and not only dismiss property rights absolutism but reject the concept of property as the core element of libertarian thought;
Dismiss concerns about PC overreach and campus intolerance;
Accept the overarching narrative that liberals are well-intentioned buy only misguided as to means, while conservatives are evil almost by definition; and as a result they obsess about the tiny, fringe “alt-Right” — with no institutional support, money, or influence — even as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez win elections running on openly socialist platforms; and
Perhaps most importantly, Zeitgeist Libertarians increasingly seek to minimize the intellectual and philosophical components of libertarianism in favor of pragmatic and empirical approaches.
In other words, they sound a lot like neoliberals and neoconservatives — and thus they push political libertarianism toward a convergence with those doctrines. In doing so they take the marrow out of the bone, and reduce liberty to a variant of “public policy.””
These “libertarians” sound an awful lot like Democrats and squish Republicans who don’t want to call themselves Democrats or Republicans.
Zeitgeist Libertarians
Sound a lot like progressives to me, with the only difference being a presumed need to openly disavow libertarian principles and proposals.
Dismiss concerns about PC overreach and campus intolerance;
Accept the overarching narrative that liberals are well-intentioned buy only misguided as to means, while conservatives are evil almost by definition;
Perhaps most importantly, Zeitgeist Libertarians increasingly seek to minimize the intellectual and philosophical components of libertarianism in favor of pragmatic and empirical approaches.
IMO, these parts are the definition of cosmotarian/woketarian
The rest of it follows from accepting the prog PoMo “philosophy” hook, line, and sinker.
He could have just said “Cato”
I don’t think that would be accurate. There are some good libertarians that are employed by CATO. But, as is usually true in these kinds of speeches, it’s pretty clear that as a representative of the Mises Institute he is clearly referring to parts of the Koch-funded groups, without being specific.
Niskanen Center is more like it
I recall their strategy is pretty much literally “influence the elites at cocktail parties” so unsurprisingly it ends up as “pragmatic” advice that tells them what they want to hear…
Niskanen dropped the pretense of being “libertarian” a month or two ago.
So how long until Reason does the same?
You misspelled “Reason”
I thought that was Jacobin…
Never confuse a “Jacobite” with a “Jacobin”
Yeah, I did a double take when I thought Jacobin had published an article by Jeff Diest
The “liberal world order” is dependent on US military backing so…
Judging from what I have read this is a good thing since central banks are run by TOP MEN not short-term political gain
Yes giving TOP MEN more Power and more People to rule over has never had deleterious effects ever. Also how do these Supra-National organizations enforce their will?
Um Libertarian Moment!
The obvious flaw with pragmatic libertarianism has always been that “Big Government is Bad but it is politically inexpedient to reduce it” has basically been the Republican MO since Eisenhower’s time. So unsurprisingly you end sounding scarcely different from the Duopoly.
And the big flaw with the elitist cocktail party libertarianism has been that the elites aren’t interested in anything that reduces their wealth and power…
OT: Escape from LA, baby!
Time to set-up a Youtube series about making coconut rafts…
I heard you were dead.
Back from whence we came. Stardust.
Sure, you are not a clone there, Bukake…
Does he have a large sum of money that he needs to get out of the country?
That is exactly what a clone would say.
Perhaps he should have embraced it and claimed to be a clone. Then those Chinese scientist with their gene-edited babies would be nothing compared to Nigerian scientists and their clones.
The knife arrived. I is pleased.
What would the English Judiciary say?
Whom ya gonna stab with that thing?
That knife is too expensive to stab anybody with…….honest question Kinnath (don’t mean to be a dick), are you going to EDC with that knife?
Which knife?
I’m assuming it’s the $800 one he posted last week
https://www.arizonacustomknives.com/1151-tuxedo-damascus-brend-auto-1-4of15-1006422.html
Probably not. It’s a numbered item from a limited run. So, it’s a collector’s item. A rationale man would keep it pristine.
Probably going to buy a more sensible knife for EDC.
I thought so, I was trying to wrap my head around carrying something that valuable (especially since I reliably lose stuff like that). I’m on my second one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knife-ON8848-BRK-Rat-1/dp/B0013ASG3E/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1543871017&sr=8-7&keywords=ESEE+folding+knife
For $20-$30 they are pretty good knives and low profile enough that I have to remember to not throw it in the washer on accident
Well, I have a $600 Sig 938 and a $1200 Springfield EMP to share duty as an EDC.
While both of those will get the job done if you need to cut a string, for Gods sake man, there are easier ways!
Cool an EMP gun. Does it disable cop cars?
Discussed at length about a year ago.
https://www.springfield-armory.com/products/1911-emp-9-mm/
Yeah, you’d be nuts to carry that, unless you are truly indifferent to cost and don’t care if it gets beat up/lost/stolen/confiscated.
That’s a beautiful knife. I wouldn’t carry it, that’s for damn sure.
He has no control, the knife is alive and will stab whoever it wants to!
We need a Girondin magazine.
RE: Lions and Hyenas. I imagine this is how SP feels ever since the first moments of the Glibening
Damn it wrong thread!