I have the glory and honor of appearing on a few court-appointed lists in the area. This means I represent clients for misdemeanor, felony, and child protective/ delinquency cases. And I really don’t mind doing this kind of work. Strangely enough, going to law school really prepared me well for doing this kind of work. Go figure. Although it wasn’t taking the required criminal law classes that prepped me, it was the overall structure of the classes.
One of the perks of my job is that I get to read a lot of police reports, and talk to police officers and detectives a lot. The reason why I say this is a “perk” is that it makes me look at the arguments law enforcement would use if the case goes to trial, and how police psychology works. It’s actually quite underhanded and manipulative once you break it down into its pieces.
Sometimes, and it has happened more recently thanks to getting on those court-appointed lists, I have potential (retained!) clients call me with the following scenario: “I was at a party last weekend, with a lot of friends. My friends tell me that Tom says that I committed a crime against him, and that he called the cops. Should I talk to the cops?”
My advice is always “No, you have no obligation to talk to the cops.” And then I tell the potential client, “if the cops call you, tell them you won’t be questioned without your lawyer present.”
1. The format: Police reports are written in a good guy/ bad guy format. It’s like a play. Usually –and I can’t think of a time I have seen it any other way — the person who calls the cops is the “good” guy. Once the cops identify the rest of the players in the play, they will try to finger one person (or possibly a group of people, who end up as co-defendants) as the “bad guy.”
This is the beginning of how the mind set of law enforcement works. It’s easier to sell the story to a jury if the play is simple. Good guy / bad guy is a scenario we have all seen, and the jury will want vengeance, justice, or something, for the good guy. This is how a conviction is made. Also, police and prosecutors know their audiences: it is the general public. What is the general public’s IQ? How does the general public feel about victims and justice?
2. Corroboration: Talking to the victim, or alleged victim as I like to call him/her, gives the cops a list of other people to talk to, witnesses, before they talk to the person they’re trying to cast in the “bad guy” role.
This is how under-handed the police mindset is, as talking to other witnesses first becomes a set-up for the defendant to put his own picture in the frame, or cast himself in the starring role. It also gives police an inside edge, as this leads to a cross-examining of the defendant from their first contact.
This is part of the officer’s job. And it works in their favor — talking to other witnesses gives “corroboration” to the alleged victim’s story. If the witnesses back up the victim’s story, then the cops have some corroboration, and the victim’s story sounds more like it would stand up in court. Back to selling this story to a jury: if there’s a witness who says the same thing as the alleged victim, then the jury will have more sympathy toward the alleged victim, and it is easier to get a conviction.
3. Contacting the defendant: The scene is now set, the cops have a victim, and some witnesses. Now all they need in the play is the bad guy.Once the cops call the potential defendant, they begin with what is called a “leading” question. Sometimes these are called open-ended questions. It’s the sort of question an interviewer uses on a job interview, such as, “where do you see yourself in five years?” it doesn’t lead to a “yes” or “no,” instead it leads to more of an explanatory answer.
Or, in the potential scenario of being pulled over, it sounds more like this “How fast did you think you were going?” This leads to an answer that can be incriminating such as, “I’m not sure, but I think was going about 35.”
Except in our “play,” as written by the police, it sounds a bit more like, “Hi, Jim. My name is officer Bishop with the County sheriff’s office. Tom talked to us, and said you committed a crime against him.”
This open-ended statement might lead a person to possibly deny the assertion, or to try to correct the cops. The problem is that any other statement a potential defendant makes at this point can be used to cast him in the role of bad guy, no matter the answer.
Usually by this time, again, cops have talked to other witnesses, and so once the defendant says something, an officer can counter with “Well, Mr. Johnson said you went after Tom with a carving knife.” Here’s the corroboration coming to assist the cops, and further explanations by defendants are only helping the police.
Also, the next thing a defendant says – even if it is the truth — may lead to a credibility problem not too far down the road. The options are to either a) deny what has been said by Mr. Johnson, or possibly point the finger at someone else; or b) deny what was said totally. (Option (c) is also available, however).
At the first contact by police, asserting an attorney’s assistance would be helpful. Instead, defendant should answer, “I’m sorry officer, but I can’t talk to you without my attorney present.” That’s option (c), which no one seems to take!
Either way, the cops have an alleged victim, and a corroborating witness who already say nearly the same thing. But according to the defendant, those two are both liars now. That won’t seem likely to a potential jury, will it? This is just grist for the mill of the prosecution. Think again of the audience, which is the general public. Who should the jury believe: the defendant – or all of the possible ways to agree with the prosecution: instead the jury can believe the alleged victim, officer testimony, credible witness testimony . . .
Police also know that facts are confusing – the victim and one or two witnesses usually get a few facts wrong, but this still can be OK to a jury. The victim is sympathetic; so it makes sense what with being attacked that the victim might get a few facts wrong.
4. The defendant’s natural response works against him. This is where manipulation also comes into play, in case it wasn’t used already when contacting the defendant. Most people are raised to think that the cops are good people, and that working with the cops will help everyone (even when being questioned about something).
A second natural response happens when police contact a suspect. The suspect wants to “set the record straight” about what really happened. This works against the suspect as well. The police aren’t interested in getting it straight, they are interested in the “good guy/bad guy” scenario.
Back to my job: I can’t tell you how many times I have had clients tell me “I was respectful”– “I didn’t make a scene,”– or “I cooperated.” Even clients with fairly extensive criminal records tell me this, when their prior involvement with law enforcement should have them knowing better. Who cares whether you cooperate with the police? The police will do their job whether you cooperate or not. And that’s what they are paid to do, so why help them to do their job? I don’t see the cops coming along to help you do yours, now do I?
5. The fact that cops wear uniforms works in their favor. It’s intimidating, for one. Second, it tends to lead to obedience on the part of defendants. Clients/defendants know that cops have uniforms, guns, and jails at their disposal. So it’s easier for cops to get compliance, and so defendants/clients to give in to authority: the alternative can be scary – even if you are innocent. People in that situation tend to want to get out the situation as quickly as possible, so it’s easier to tell the cops something. Third, the uniforms are de-humanizing. It’s not a guy who happens to be a cop, it’s a cop! People see the uniform, but not the individual in uniform.
Well folks, that is all I have for now. Thanks for listening. Feel free to comment, leave suggestions, etc. My upcoming specials will be:
Part two: The Big C: When do your Constitutional rights “attach” to the situation?
Part three: Evidence problems. What the police report says, can it be “in” evidence?
Lastly: this is totally worth the watch: a criminal law professor covers exactly the same topic I just did!
My favorite thing is the anger that every cop has ever shown when I refused to speak with them, especially answer their questions.
NewWife thinks that’s weird.
They dont like it when you tell them that they can’t search your vehicle either. It gets their hackles up to be told no.
That’s a fun one. So much of their traffic stop shenanigans is predicated on most people being ignorant of two things: 1)that they have absolutely no right to search a vehicle without your consent unless there is probable cause 2)that they have no right to detain you any longer once the incident you were pulled over for was resolved.
PC is pretty trivial to get, unfortunately.
So PC is at the discretion of the officer? Are there any situations where a parked vehicle requires a warrant?
Whenever they summon Officer Fluffy to walk around the car and “alert”. Their 4-legged PC machines never fail to give them what they want.
What Lach says. And, “Due to my training and experience, I recognized the odor of marijuana.”
Officer K-9 sez you have drugs….
But here’s the thing – usually, they have to wait for some other cop to bring in Sgt. Rin-Tin-Tin. That’s where part two comes in. You are not obliged to sit there and wait for them to bring in a fucking dog once the stoppable offense has been handled.
True. However, officer friendly can take his sweet time writing you a ticket and generally speaking fluffy isn’t too far away.
. You are not obliged to sit there and wait for them to bring in a fucking dog once the stoppable offense has been handled.
*crash*
We’ll look at that. You have a broken taillight. How didn’t I notice that before I stopped you?
*disappears for 20 minutes to write you up a warning*
I have long believed that if the people in this country simply asserted their rights everytime they interacted with the law, then the vast majority of the bullshit cops pull would end.
I agree. Also I said this the other day;
Step 1: All civil law suits against the cops are paid out of the that departments pension fund
The incentive to protect bad cops goes away pretty quick.
No, then the state would just need to dump more into the pension fund. Take it out of their overtime or equipment budgets.
Maybe even better. Of course the best solution is to abolish public sector unions and force them to carry personal liability insurance but I know that will happen about the time hell freezes over.
I won’t settle for less than unlimited criminal liability for their own actions when viewed through the lens of someone not wearing the uniform of the night watchmen.
Make the Police Unions responsible for it. The city is not responsible for the bad actions of the officers and all of the officers get the benefit of the union for collective bargaining. If the Union thinks a given incident is somehow the fault of the officers training or some such then they can file a grievance and try to recoup the payout.
Now with the Union on the hook for paying for the suit individual cops have every incentive to police each other because when Officer Roid Rage decides to beat the shit out of someone or Officer Trigger Happy decides an 8 year olds lollipop looks like a gun all of their Union Dues go up.
I like it. I also would like it if all money collected from fines, tickets, etc was converted to paper currency and burned every wednesday.
Letting cops write tickets that the state profits from is all kinds of fucked up.
Yep. Incentivizes all the worst behavior. Our founders would have a thing or two to say.
Got a speeding ticket in a local (very small) city after dropping by a friend’s house. Went to court, assuming I’d end up taking defensive driving to avoid the insurance hit. Judge says for approximately the same out of pocket cost, they would handle the ticket “in house” (not send info to the state, etc.). I went that route, knowing full well it was a pure money making ploy, just to avoid wasting my time doing the DD course.
I watched your video where they searched your car. That was enraging.
If I remember correctly the fact you were nervous about their shakedown lent credence to their excuse to search you.
“He was nervous, he must be afraid of what we’ll find.”
“He was too calm, he has to be hiding something.”
I watch a lot of true crime shows on the ID network and this is exactly their attitude.
The ones that really get me are when an innocent person has been in jail for years and DNA proves it.
Going through the case files shows how the investigation was half assed, or the cops decided who did it before really investigating, or there was no shit malfeasance going on, yet the cops never admit to anything.
Same here. Many, many hours of watching ID has really opened my eyes to how many people are convicted on astonishingly flimsy evidence. I’ve lost count of how many people get charged with murder because “His reaction to his wife’s death was ‘off'” “He didn’t react the way I thought he should have when I asked him if he did it” It also opened my eyes to the fact that cops will say and do absolutely anything to get you once they make up their minds that you’re the guy. Even minor errors in memory get turned into “see, he’s a liar! He’s changing his story!”
I think this is especially true in the case of murder. They need to get someone and fast because they know the more time that goes by the less likely they are to “solve” the case. So once they zone in on the suspect they abandon all other evidence collection and make the chips fall into place. If you want to watch a really good/infuriating documentary try “An Unreal Dream”:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B011P27IT2
It drives me insane when they talk to jurors after trials.
It’s always “Their demeanor wasn’t what I thought it should be”, or ” I felt they were lying”
Very rarely do they talk about evidence.
I was strange. I actually wanted to be picked for jury duty. (It helped that I get paid full salary for jury duty days). I wanted to actually evaluate the evidence. And well, They panelled a jury before I got my chance.
There’s a reason I haven’t watched the Making a Murderer on Netflix. It would piss me off far too much.
It’s also not terribly accurate. They took the “there must be a good guy and bad guy” script the cops used and inverted it. The truth is there were no good guys, just awful people all around.
“Making a Murderer” had me screaming at the TV, but there still is some room for doubt.
Unreal Dream” just breaks your heart. Poor guy spends 25 years in prison because some asshole prosecutor and lead detective said “meh, it’s always the husband.”
Cops make their decisions about what they believe in a criminal situation the same way your friends and neighbors make their decisions about what they believe in a ‘who’s cheating on who situation’*. It has little to do with logic, proof or fairness and much to do with preconceptions, confirmation bias, and the innate human tendency to form convictions without proof.
*or, at the risk of pissing off some of the Glibs, the way people here (and everywhere) jump to conclusions about what happened in a news story based on two or three, possible erroneous, ‘facts’ in an initial blurb. hint: not every crime that targets someone you dislike is a false flag. And conversely, not every crime that targets someone you do like is a conspiracy.
Crazy angry losers do bad shit. They do it because they are crazy; because they are angry; because they are a loser. They then justify it by saying it was political, because that way they can feel important and martyred rather than face the fact that they are evil little toads.
Watch the three Paradise Lost documentaries sometime.
the way people here (and everywhere) jump to conclusions about what happened in a news story based on two or three, possible erroneous, ‘facts’ in an initial blurb.
¡ I can’t wait on the facts if it delays my owning the XxYz!11!?
So? The big difference between sitting at my keyboard going “yeah, that sounds more like (crazy conspiracy theory)” and doing so in a jury box is that my keyboard never sent anyone to a rapecage, and there’s no solemnity to shitposting on Glibs.
Obviously, but it’s still rationalization not reasoning when you do it. Not a personal attack, we ALL do this, it is wired into our brains. Most of us never actually think, we conclude based on emotion/imagined narrative then justify the conclusion.
Jarflax- I’m not wanting an argument but I’m going to go to bat for some of my fellow Glibs for a second. I saw something else on here a while back about how as people of the NAP, we shouldn’t be saying things like “punch-able face” and the like. There is a huge chasm between saying you’d like to see someone punched and actually punching them. You haven’t violated the NAP for having those thoughts. To say you have is to try to police someone’s thoughts.
In regard to speculation; we all have our biases, it’s what makes us human. And yes they can lead us to draw wrong conclusions. Unlike the Cops and the News media, we don’t make being objective a pretense. These forums often serve as an outlet for us to blurt out our ideas as they pop into our heads and carry no consequences. It’s quite different from someone who holds power in these situations whom has an expectation to be objective. So I don’t think the “Thou hypocrite!” comments are really fair. I see whatyou are saying and I agree that it’s prudent to reserve judgement but I certainly don’t begrudge anyone a little speculation.
Bob, you are misunderstanding me. I am not calling this out as a specifically Glib failing. I am saying it is basic human nature to see and instantly lock in on an interpretation of any situation that fits our biases, etc. Then once that interpretation is locked in ego, team loyalty, patriotism, tribe, whatever you want to call it pushes us to rationalize our way to support that interpretation. I would venture to guess that 99%+ of human ‘thoughts’ are straight hind brain animal reactions dressed up in pretty verbal clothes.
My point is a very old one. It is what underlies Judge not lest ye be judged. or Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.
https://law.justia.com/cases/kentucky/court-of-appeals/2013/2011-ca-001851-mr.html
I was the foreman for the retrial.
Two misdemeanor convictions. $1k fine and 1 year.
He was practically hi-fiving his lawyer after that result.
ron73440- that’s a symptom of how dumbed down we’ve become as a society and how nobody is taught basic civics at any point in their lives. Also it doesn’t help that the jury selection process ensures the most ignorant people with the least to do end up on the jury.
Saw one where a guy’s wife was brutally murdered and raped.
The fear in his eyes was unreal as he described the moment in the interrogation when he realized that they all thought he did it.
He lost his job and the cops got his best friend to wear a wire, and it went unsolved for a while.
Eventually a serial killer was convicted for it, but the husband was destroyed.
That’s terrible. How anyone could have one iota of faith in the justice system after that baffles me.
Jarflax- You’ll here no protest from me on any of that, I heartily agree. I see now that you were offering the ‘glib conspiracies’ as an example rather than an indictment. I just bristle a little bit when people try to compare individual failings to failings of institutions. The consequences and power differential make those unfair comparisons IMO (I see that’s not what you were doing now) .
Damn i get confused when threads run this far down…..
Institutions are made up of individuals. It is the real tragedy of humanity. There is quote, I think by Jefferson that I can’t recall exactly, but it is in response to someone decrying republican rule by saying that people are incapable of ruling themselves. The quote is to the effect that granted that people are unworthy to be trusted with control over their own lives; how much less should they be trusted with control over other’s lives.
I’ve heard it before and it’s a good (and very true) quote. Also on of the simplest and effective arguments for individualism : An individual can infinitely fuck up their own life, an institution can infinitely fuck up everyone’s. So which one would you rather see empowered and which one would you see restrained?
“Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.”
And related from Madison:
“But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.”
Thank you. yes that is the quote I was thinking of.
“Most of us never actually think, we conclude based on emotion/imagined narrative then justify the conclusion.”
Actually, reality is that this is all of us. Not just most. People have some emotional trigger that they then rationalize into a perfectly logical reason for things. This is why I have made the case with my fellow IT AI developers that AGI/ASI (Artificial General Intelligence/Artificial Super Intelligence) are impossible. There is no way to teach a machine/system that is predicated on pure logic to work like humans do.
Most goes with never in my post 🙂 In other words, we all do this almost all the time. Most of us literally never do anything else, but I’m holding my faith that a few of us do sometimes actually think and that is what has gotten all of us to this amazing world where we are spending a morning talking about interesting stuff on magic talking boxes that show us porn!
We are monkeys, but just occasionally we produce Newton/Aristotle/Da Vinci and because of that life is awesome!
Newton was a failure.
That was their whole deal. I was a bit nervous and very worn out from a day at work. They took that as me being tweaked out and hiding drugs. It really pissed me off.
It’s been awhile since I’d seen it, I’m sure it wasn’t easy, I’ve had to deal with asshole cops once and I was shocked at how shaky I was after.
I wasn’t detained so it had to have been worse for you.
They have only asked me to search my vehicle once. I don’t do drugs, have a legal carry permit, and had no reason to worry, but on principle I told the officer it would only happen if I could record the search on my camera and/or my lawyer was present. When asked if I had something to hide, I pointed out that was not the case, but I didn’t know her from Adam, and had no desire to waste a fortune on lawyers because she had planted something on me. The lady cop went batshit crazy on me, but I refused to back down. In the end she just let me go when she realized I was not going to let her just “search” my car without me having some protection.
When you speak to an officer, you are giving evidence. That’s all you are doing. The less you speak, the less evidence you are giving.
So what do you do when their response to refusal to answer questions is to smash your window, drag you out of the car and beat you bloody? I have places to be and can’t afford the interruption.
Dashcam?
I don’t think waving the camera at them fends them off like garlic to Romanians.
Also, how does this advice translate to border crossings?
The worst are those interior Border Patrol stations like in west Texas. Again: I ain’t saying nothing but sitting in the driver’s seat with the window barely cracked enough to deliver a driver’s license. We can sit here all day, folks.
Does the pattern repeat along the Canukistani marches? I’ve only ever crossed borders at airports, and I’m trying to work out what to expect.
That’s the worst part of it: you’re just driving across Texas minding your own business and suddenly you’re cordoned onto the badguy queue and some $22/hour dude is using his official voice. Fuck him.
I’ve only had problems trying to get back into the U.S., and only one true jerkass border agent.
Going north of the wall, it was basically your standard questions: “do you have any weapons, fireworks or explosives,” that sort of thing.
Except when I brought my parents along. When he found out that they were from Texas, the agent kept asking if they owned any guns “it’s OK if you own them, you just can’t bring them across.”
The Jerkass kept repeating questions trying to get me to change my answer, and he wanted to know where the receipt was for my hotel, why I hadn’t declared any presents, why I hadn’t bought any presents to be declared, how much luggage I brought with me…
“Then why are you asking if I own any rather than if I’ve got any with me?”
Same here, and this was back in the day before you needed a passport to go to Canada. I was with a friend, and we were questioned as to how we knew each other, where we worked, why we were in Canada (because we were under 21, and could buy alcohol up there?), why we were driving, how we were getting home, etc.
Just find a group and cross en mass with total disregard for the rules, then you can become hero to the left.
Despite living only a couple of hours away, I haven’t crossed into Canada recently.
Back in the 90’s (when the drinking age in Canada was 18 but 21 in the States), they rarely checked anything.
As a general rule the Canadian Border Control people were fine. It was the US border Patrol dudes who were the dicks.
Now, I’m told you’ll need your passport to get back in to the US
I carried my passport when driving around the US, because New York drivers licenses look fake to me.
Thanks for this article. I look forward to the rest of the series. I’m always interested in a professional opinion on how to handle these situations.
“My advice is always “No, you have no obligation to talk to the cops.” And then I tell the potential client, “if the cops call you, tell them you won’t be questioned without your lawyer present.””
Best advice ever, and I usually have a low opinion of ambulance chasers as well.
How often have you seen the cops try to intimidate the accused by saying something along the lines”only guilty people ask for their lawyer.”?
Most people believe that. I know I used to. We’re all trained that way by watching TV shows and movies where you know who the bad guy is because he’s the one who refuses to talk without an attorney. “He’s lawyering up – he must have done it!”
Now I know that only a fool talks to police without a lawyer.
^This. Even as a witness to a crime I think I’d be loath to say anything without legal representation present.
I’m guessing far to often.
I have only known a few dozen cops. I’d consider some of them friends. I’ve had coworkers who were cops, my karate instructor was a cop, I dated a cop’s daughter.
Every single one of them, without exception, would lie and abuse their authority if they thought the target of abuse deserved it.
I only know a couple cops… Ex-cops. They actually hated the environment and got out. Much respect for them, but at the same time if they were the good cops that means there are less of them now.
Or if another cop needed an alibi, I bet.
“It’s only a few bad apples… and they needed to be protected at any cost.”
I’ve had a law enforcement say to me, and I quote “I’d definitely lie to protect another officer, even if he murdered someone.”
Not sure if this is just a tribal attitude or if this is something that’s ingrained in Police Academies but it’s absolute bullshit.
This. Several cops are in my extended family (as befitting an Irish family in NY). I love my cousins. They’re fun guys. However, I know for an absolute fact that all of them would cover for bad cops……because they’ve told me as much.
Yup. Testilying is real.
Thats the frustrating thing about well, 99% of the public, they have no problem with violating someone’s constitutional rights once they’ve decided the perp deserves it. As much as I appreciate the counter-counter culture message in Dirty Harry I gotta say Callahan was way off…..
exactly: no one believes in the rule of law; What they really believe: “get the jerk”
If the jury doesn’t like you, friend, you are fucked, the facts be damned
I wish people understood what “the rule of law” meant. My Dad accuses me of wanting anarchy(the bad kind) and my response is “no, I want the rule of law to reign supreme.”
What good is the law if it won’t allow you to use it against those you find icky?
I play golf every week with my best friend, a reasonable gun control type who owns several pistols and an AR15, and a twenty-year cop; they both think they know what’s right for everyone else, and they never dream that the state will use force to fuck up their lives.
And they both know I loathe this about them; my standard shorthand is “eliminate the police.”
Excellent article and I’m looking forward to the next one!
That’s option (c), which no one seems to take!
This is the answer we’ve drilled into our kids. ALWAYS have only a single word for an answer. “Lawyer.”
Fortunately, my lawyer is a large, physically intimidating guy who has killed people. And an ex-ADA so you can’t bullshit him.
Is Big Lou your lawyer.
Nope, Chuck Testa.
WTF?
Hopefully most of you have heard of this little site before, but if you haven’t: Flex Your Rights. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like it’s been updated in a while, but there’s still some helpful information there.
Some friends and I recently had a discussion as to whether TV cop shows condition people believe cops can wipe their ass with the constitution. Sort of like the CSI effect, but instead it trains people to not realize their rights are being trampled.
That’s been going on forever. Think of all of the villains in movies and TV shows who got off because “there was a bad warrant”, “the judge let him off”, “evidence was kicked out”, etc. Hell, it’s part of the backstory of the Freddy Krueger.
I have seen some interesting discussion on getting rid of the exclusionary rule and I’m mostly convinced that it is a bad thing.
Currently, When a cop violates the law to obtain evidence of guilt, the evidence is dismissed. There is no consequence for the cop that violated the law.
If when a cop violated the law to find evidence, the cop was prosecuted for violating the law, then there would be an incentive for the cops to follow the law when gathering evidence.
I’m still an advocate of use of force cases being tried by jury with no mention of their ‘badged’ status being admissable and the barring of uniforms from the audience. If they pass the same use of force standards as the rest of the populace, they can go back to work after their Unpaid vacation. If not, it in the clink they go for twice the time of everyone else because of their abuse of the public trust.
Qualified Immunity needs to go away. FFS, here’s a story (I posted it the other day as well) about a cop being caught in a lie in court, under oath.
Graham V. Connor was some of the worst judicial reasoning with some of the farest reaching consequences in the last 50 years. Unfortunately nobody on the right will ever make a peep about it because all their favorite judges were in the majority.
*farthest
Goes back longer than that. The 1950s Dragnet TV/radio shows used that trope.
There’s an episode that aired after California adopted the exclusionary rule about how this terrible criminal (HE WAS SELLING DRUGS TO CHILDREN!) got away because of the rule.
Of course, Friday never bothered with silly things like warrants.
Real life also conditions people to believe that cops can wipe their ass with the constitution.
+1 letting “that scumbag walk on a technicality?!”
I have an awesome idea for a glibs t-shirt but have zero skills creating digital graphics: A thin-blue line flag superimposed over the constitution with a brown streaky line in place of the blue line. Inspiration courtesy of Straffinrun.
And Lady Liberty weeping in the background.
Yes, absolutely. Like I said above, cop TV shows and movies indicate who the bad guy is when there’s someone who’s being questioned who insists on having an attorney present.
Maybe there needs to be a new cop show (“Oddly Enough” or “WhoDaThunkIt” or “FML”) where every week a totally innocent person is railroaded by our justice system using only the tamest and most trite methods.
I blame L&O: SVU for most of the hysteria surrounding child abductions and other “special crimes.”
I hate that fucking show.
With the hatred of a thousand fiery suns.
I blame people not paying attention to the 80’s child care scares. Or not paying attention to the D&D scare, or the backwards masking scare, or the comics scare, etc…
My wife will watch that show on marathon — hour after hour. I have told her that I hate the show. She has finally gotten to the point she doesn’t watch it when I am around.
Kinnath,
I have been busy, but your beer will be mailed tonight.
Great. I look forward to it.
The extended forecast is above freezing for the next week. So the beer should be safe in a truck over the weekend.
the ANC knows what’s good for you
sorry, OT, but we all knew this was coming
“. . .there was overwhelming support in the public hearings for a constitutional amendment on expropriation of land without compensation,” parliament’s press office said.
GIMME YOUR SHIT!
Something comes to mind about “Those who want to rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul’s support.”
Wise heads here have already predicted mass starvation: how long before the redistribution lands everyone back in the stone age?
the electricity is in the care of the Harith !
hmmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhBIPZCVj84
Don’t talk to the police. It can never help you.
Also, informative article.
That video was the one that got me to think twice about everything I thought I knew about police and prosecutors.
That’s a great video. I’ll show it to my boy before he gets old enough to drive. It should be shown in civics class in about 6th grade if we had an education system in this country that’s goal was to educate.
The role of government schools is to indoctrinate you about what the government wants you to think. Which is that they are totally legit, and you should trust their authority, and let them steal from you.
Showing you how to stand up to them isn’t gonna happen.
A couple of years ago some yahoo on a fucking scooter getting pissed I honked at him when he tried to cut me off. He tried to kick the side of my car, hit the tire, and comically bounced back the other direction and onto the sidewalk. (He was trying to enter from the right from the gutter. He called the cops and claimed I hit him and drove off. When the cops called me I said, “I have nothing to say without a lawyer.” There was a long silence. The woman-cop says, “We just want to clear this up.” Me “Lawyer.” Another long silence as if thinking that would prompt me to talk. “Goodbye.” from me and that was the end of it. Until he tried to file an insurance claim and wound up on insurance fraud charges himself.
Insert Nelson Ha-ha. I like that story.
Great article, thanks for writing it.
I’ll just dredge this gem up from last night’s links. I can’t get enough of seeing the inebriated, crying, cop.
I’m sure that I too would get such kid-gloves treatment from police if I wrecked my car while drunk.
uh-huh
Seems guy with the cam (Im assuming a supervisor) was actually going to let him drive home early on.
My first job out of law school was in the Solicitor’s Office and I also read a lot of police reports. I learned that most of our local police are borderline illiterate and rely on buzzwords to get their point across. My favorite being “I felt a leafy green substance in his pocket.” Oh really, you felt green?
borderline illiterate
That may explain why they feel the need to wave their dicks in your face. Every encounter I have had with a cop, they were complete assholes to me at the outset. The worst I have been accused of is speeding. It’s not like he witnessed me commit an assault or murder. The least they could do is show a little respect to the people that are held at implied gunpoint to pay their salaries.
Respect a Peasant? Never!
Why would a slaveowner respect their slaves?
Once you understand their mindset, their actions become way more predictable.
Great article. Thanks, Elspeth!
It’s like I don’t recognize you anymore.
/not a comment on the comment.
Halloween’s over. I’ll pick up something Christmasy after Tryptophan Day.
I have been so consistant in avatar that I’ve actually debated taking a printout of the full image on my road trip so Glibs can identify me.
I’m afraid to say I have been using a photo from my youth.
So I don’t exactly look like my avatar.
Put a big vinyl decal on your car.
I don’t want the car to be identified – they might figure out how I plan to flee the scene.
Travel with it as a cardboard cutout. Hello carpool lane!
*Imagines scene at border crossing*
I don’t want to have to answer those questions.
And here I’m contemplating changing mine.
You all have much better eyes than me. isn’t your avatar just a grain of wheat bulb?
No
I am easily amused, and equally easily bored.
Thank you! I forgot it was being published today, then I remembered. Ah — the thrill of being in print.
“I’m sorry officer, but I can’t talk to you without my attorney present.”
This is something I asked about a few times without getting an answer. What if I (as well as the vast majority of people) don’t have an attorney on retainer? How can I make the statement above if MY attorney doesn’t even exist? That’s probably why very few people insist on attorney’s presence when questioned by the police. In a couple of cases when I needed a lawyer (entirely non-criminal) it was a PITA to get one and it took weeks–granted, it wasn’t very urgent.
“my” in this case doesn’t mean “My attorney who is my personal bitch on retainer”. It means a lawyer hired to represent you. Whether you have that lawyer on retainer, or you hire him after police contact, but before you say anything to the cops, doesn’t matter.
This. “my lawyer” is short for “a lawyer representing me”.
As a lawyer, the first words out of my mouth when questioned by a cop will be the same as yours. My phone call would be to my boss to see if he has any defense lawyer buddies who want a new client.
^This. I have a license to practice and according to the Supreme Court of Ohio am competent to do so in any court in the State. According to me I know a bit about real estate, some stuff pertaining to contract and commercial law, a touch about trusts and entities, and 1 basic fact of criminal law…. Get lawyer before talking self into rape cage.
Good to know. Would you happen to be in the SW corner of the state? I mean….just in case.
Are you planning on talking yourself into a rape cage?
No he is planning on having me do it! and yes I am one of the Cincinnati area Glibs.
Happily noted.
Someday Ill have to post the pic of me with Eric Deters…..
“I’m sorry officer, but I can’t talk to you without an attorney present.”
Problem solved.
I live a blissfully boring (and legal) life and should never need it, but in my wallet is a business card for a local prominent defense attorney.
^THIS^^
I worry because of my OC’ing that I could easily be accused of something and as we all know, you may beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride.
I have Saul Goodman.
So you need a criminal lawyer?
Well, it helps understand your requirements.
That was one of the greatest TV show lines ever.
That’s who I’d pick too.
IANAL, but… If you haven’t been arrested and you’re refusing to answer questions without an attorney present, they can pack sand. If you have been arrested and you don’t already have an attorney, you’re entitled to be provided with one.
Yes, you’re entitled to be provided with one, but in my area, that only happens after you’ve been in custody … or arraigned. So that means there’s a complaint against you. . . you’re not just “being questioned.” At that point, it’s the State of MI versus Fried, make sense? No obligation to provide legal advice while cops are “just talking” to you. Cops may not have “enough” information to make a complaint –yet — if they’re just talking to people.
Right, but if they’re “just talking” to you, what’s to stop you from telling them to have a ‘blessed day’ and continuing about your business? “I’m not answering questions without a lawyer present. Am I being detained? No? Bye, then.” grrizzly (or anyone else) doesn’t actually need a lawyer on retainer for that.
Right.
After the “Am I being detained”, “No, we’re just having a conversation,”, “Then I’d like to be on my way.”, how often do they actually say, “Okay, move along.”?
They don’t need to say anything after they say you’re not being detained, so you just say “well, bye” and go on your way.
I’m crazy, I want some assurance that my departure won’t solicit a response of rapid-onset lead poisoning.
They won’t shoot you for that, more likely just a tackle from behind followed by a “STOP RESISTING” beat down.
I always envision these encounters as being traffic stops, so I saw it being me driving off followed by a hail of gunfire “He’s trying to run me over!”
Just drop the attorney part.
I’m sorry officer, but I have nothing to say to you.
With all due respect officer, I will not be answering any questions at this time.
See, my problem is with the “due respect” part. If I say that like I mean it, it’s not going to go well for me.
Be polite to the police. They have guns and immunity. Politely say you will not speak with them without your lawyer. Then stop talking. Do not get into 20 minute discussions of your rights. You have no obligation to prove the nature or extent of your rights to the cop, winning such an argument will not make the cop instantly recognize your rights, and the more words you say the more chances there are for one or more to get you in trouble.
^^
You’re dealing with a gorilla holding a gun. If it was a literal gorilla holding a gun next to you, would you taunt or disrespect it? No, you’d be very cautious and deferential until they were no longer a threat to you.
Address them as if they’re royalty, and cuss into your beer once you get home.
Man, make one snarky comment…
And yes, I treat police like I would any other large, dangerous animal. Move slowly, don’t jump, and speak in a calm, reassuring voice. I’ve had my run ins with the law (both as bystander, innocent party, and arrested). Now that I look more respectable, and drive a better car, I’ve been free of needing to deal with them for quite a long time. And I’m happier for that.
You’re dealing with a gorilla holding a gun. If it was (sic) a literal gorilla . . . you’d be very cautious and deferential
I talk to cops like I do dogs: I’m not deferential because I’m a full citizen, not a solicitous biatch. I prefer to be civil back to someone who is already being civil, and that is usually the case. But I’m okay with the exceptions.
The last cop I talked to: I got pulled over, no carry permit or even DL on me, left my wallet at the house (very rare), and he starts the exaggeration game about my driving, so I argue with him. “You were all over the place” whatever that means. Five minutes later he is sick of me and just stomps off and drove away . . . which I oddly respect. I think he was just too cool to go nuclear on me, so he just let it go.
I drive very aggressively and get pulled over all the time; tickets are just overhead to me. It’s amazing that I haven’t gotten into the real shit with a cop before; I have hated them since childhood when I figured out that they would frame anyone if the facts weren’t enough.
Pure hate on my part; there is no way I could ever perfectly conceal it.
I have never been pulled over.
I think it’s because I’m a boring looking white guy in a boring looking car driving in a boring manner.
I talk to cops like I do dogs….Pure hate on my part; there is no way I could ever perfectly conceal it.
and you talk to dogs in a way that drips with poorly concealed hate? Get bit a lot do you?
“Who’s a good little fuzz? You are. Yes you are.”
“Who wants a donut? You want a donut! Yes you do!”
Also on a more serious note courtesy is not being a deferential biatch. “Sir/Ma’am, I decline to speak with you without an attorney present” is not deferential, but it is perfectly courteous.
Get bit a lot do you?
Course not: dogs are pack animals and just want to know who’s in charge; I don’t confuse them with childlike squealing or submissive behavior.
Do not offer the police officer a treat.
Dogs like to know who is in charge, but if they perceive you as hating them or fearing them they won’t treat you as pack leader, they will treat you as ‘not of the pack’ and they will react accordingly.
All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
Lying well is an important life skill.
I just plan on screaming ‘Diplomatic Immunity!’
But then Murtaugh would shoot you in the head.
“It’s just been revoked!”
Ah, so you’re one of the “sovereign citizen” types? Cool, let me know how that goes! 😉
trying to get some business huh?
Uncivil and Chipwooder got the joke, so I’ll let this slide.
She’s not South African.
No she’s a Scot
I use this formulation, “Respectfully, officer, I do not wish to answer any questions and I do not consent to any searches. Am I free to go?” Repeat until they get that you refuse to incriminate yourself.
Cops https://imgur.com/gallery/RUKrV6a
Here’s an interesting question: does anyone seriously believe that anyone who is actually close to Trump would talk to Mr. ENB?
Oooo…”Sources close to the president”…..always so reliable. I’m still giddily awaiting he and ENB’s next twitter gafs……they made some doozies last year.
No, not for a minute.
This is a simple one. NEVER GIVE THEM A WORD. I DON’T CARE IF THEY JUST WANT TO TALK. I DON’T CARE IF YOU’VE DONE NOTHING WRONG. YOUR ONLY WORDS TO A POLICE OFFICER SHOULD BE “I AM INVOKING MY RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT AND WILL NOT SPEAK TO YOU WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT”. Because thanks to court precedent, if you don’t tell them this in words that are simple enough for a 4 year old to understand, it doesn’t count.
ANYWAYS.
Off topic, but this Jacob Wohl press conference should win a Golden Globe for best comedy of the year.
Thread: https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1058025098500849666
Jesus, with how shameless and brazen this kid is when confronted with his obvious fraud, I think he has a bright future in politics.
I’m just glad that the media investigates fanciful sexual assault allegations when the right principle is involved
Just a reminder:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/nbc-news-raises-eyebrows-by-sitting-on-info-that-contradicted-michael-avenatti-client
https://freebeacon.com/blog/nbc-news-sit-evidence-discrediting-kavanaugh-accuser-weeks/
Yeah, and avoid any slang like “Get me a lawyer, dawg.”
We all know never to talk to cops without a lawyer but here is the scenario I never see discussed. Your wife/child is missing. You suspect or possibly witnessed an abduction. Seconds count. You will obviously be the number one suspect out of the box. How do you handle this without setting yourself up to go to wrongly go to prison for the rest of your life and ensure that they move the focus from you to actually doing their job as quickly as possible? How do you respond to request for searches, phone records, computer access, general questions, lie detectors to be as helpful as possible? In other words, what do they actually need to do their job as opposed to what they want in order to pin it on you and how can you help get them on the right track right now.
That’s s tricky one. I guess you just have to call the cops and take that chance. My wife and kids are more important to me than I am, if I were in a situation that shitty, I would just lay it all out and let the cards fall where they may.
Aside from calling the cops, I’d be doing everything in my power to locate them on my own as well.
also not calling the police to report your missing kid/spouse is going to absolutely guarantee that they focus exclusively on you once they learn of the disappearance.
Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?
I would definitely call them, they have more resources than I do, it’s just a matter of how best to deal with them.
I would do what comes naturally when a loved one is missing. I’d spend every waking moment searching for them. Oh, officer friendly wants to interrogate me? Sorry, I’m too busy canvassing neighborhoods for my loved one to be distracted by this BS. I have one priority, and that is to find my loved one.
“I would just lay it all out and let the cards fall where they may.”
That would be my instinct as well but I would be interested in the best way to handle it.
You just call Liam Neeson.
I’m not building a water purifier here, what would I need him?
He can get the vault dweller to do all kinds of fetch quests.
But they take for fucking ever to get around to it, and usually their response is to slaughter everything in sight, loot everything that is and is not nailed down, and forget to come back for just as long to turn it in.
Which is what the cops would do as well, so same results either way.
Fuck the police.
Call Liam Neeson.
I’d be worried that in the process of him bringing them back they would be kidnapped by even worse people. That could end up be repeated over and over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/29/opinion/khashoggi-mbs-saudi-arabia-susan-rice.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion
Susan Rice can’t help but lie. Good of the NYT to allow her to spread a blatant lie.
FTA:
“The Saudi-led coalition in Yemen shares direct responsibility, along with the Houthi rebels and Iran, for the worst humanitarian crisis in the world, while the United States has continued shamelessly to provide support to their bloody war. Although the Obama administration initiated support to the coalition to help defend Saudi territory from Houthi incursions, it finally moved to curtail arms sales when the aims of the war expanded and the constraints we tried to impose were flouted.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/22/us-saudi-arabia-weapons-arms-deals-foreign-policy
The reality (from April 2016):
“As Obama has preached a kind of tough love – telling the Saudis that he won’t commit US military resources to reflexively support them against Iran – his administration has dramatically ramped up arms sales to the kingdom and other Gulf allies. Since 2010, the Obama administration authorized a record $60bn in US military sales to Saudi Arabia. Since then, the administration concluded deals for nearly $48bn in weapons sales – triple the $16bn in sales under the George W Bush administration.”
I love how people who could care less about the War in Yemen just three months ago are suddenly super concerned about American arms sales to Saudi Arabia.
This was the media’s previous reaction to Rand Paul offering a bill to end weapon sales to Saudi Arabia a year ago:
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-defense-contractors-will-lose-jobs-if-u-s-stops-arming-saudi-arabia/
Does Blitzer have any concept of the implications of that question?
Just remember, Blitzer and most of the media personalities are now clutching their pearls over America’s relationship with Saudi Arabia are liars and even went so far as to defend President Obama who threatened to veto a bill that Congress passed to allow American citizens to sue Saudi Arabia for its involvement in 9/11
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/obama-veto-saudi-terrorism/479112/
https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2016/10/07/buyers-remorse-will-congress-regret-overriding-president-obamas-veto-on-saudi-arabia-bill/
https://www.newsweek.com/obama-saudi-arabia-911-september-11-lawsuit-hijackers-osama-bin-laden-502379
Just remember, Blitzer and most of the media personalities that are now clutching their pearls over America’s relationship with Saudi Arabia are liars and even went so far as to defend President Obama who threatened to veto a bill that Congress passed to allow American citizens to sue Saudi Arabia for its involvement in 9/11
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/obama-veto-saudi-terrorism/479112/
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I attended an AIAA conference a few years back where one of the keynote speakers was some VP from Lockheed Martin talking about how the Joint Strike Fighter was such a great jobs program. You could probably hear my teeth grinding from the opposite end of the hall.
I don’t think I’d be able to sit through such a conference. You have better self-control than I
It was a nearly week-long engineering conference and was overall actually quite enjoyable. But because it covers such a wide variety of sub-disciplines, the keynote speeches tend to be of a more general interest to the industry nature (and none of the technical sessions take place concurrently).
I have to attend a conference every year in New York that has nothing to do with foreign policy or the defense industry, but for some reason they always have a keynote speaker at the end who discusses foreign policy and defense. This past year it was a general who discussed the nefarious work of the Russians (under your bed!) and how the US needed to be further engaged in the conflict in Ukraine.
The war boners on all the Wall Street Journal reading white collar professionals was palatable.
The truth and Susan Rice have no relationship whatsoever. I think that’s obvious by now.
\Although the Obama administration initiated support to the coalition to help defend Saudi territory from Houthi incursions, it finally moved to curtail arms sales when the aims of the war expanded and the constraints we tried to impose were flouted.
Even if you take this at face value, it’s still more of the absurd “3-dimensional chess” that always winds up blowing up in our faces.
“Who’s playing Chess? I’m playing ‘Global Thermonuclear War'”
Translation: We cried havoc and let slip the dogs of war. How were we supposed to know they would bite people!
Except that it is a boldface lie. There is nothing to suggest that the Obama administration ever tried to curtail the conflict or support for Saudi Arabia ever.
I’m not to fond of the new opponents of Saudi Arabia’s War in Yemen after four years of pretending as if it wasn’t happening or that it was a good thing. And that includes some congressmen and groups that I generally respect, but went awfully quite about foreign interventionism around the time of Russia fever dreams.
I think Jarflax kind of nailed it. In their hubris, they thought they could intervene with the Saudis as proxy. Then, oh, gosh, golly, there’s people who wind up getting killed, even in proxy wars! Who’d have thought? Now, they want to leave the Saudis out to dry. So, they lie and insist that they really tried to curtail them, it’s just those crazy Arabs won’t listen to reason. Fundamentally, they think they can get rid of the rebels in Yemen without anyone actually winning a war against them. It’s the same 3-dimensional chess bullshit that they tried to pull in Syria. They insisted that Assad had to go. And never stopped to consider the alternative was ISIS. So, they wound up attacking ISIS and then doing everything in their power to offset the fact that the logical consequence of that was to strengthen Assad’s position, which had the effect of helping ISIS, which meant they had to….well, you get the picture.
And the truly miserable part of all this is that these games only have the effect of multiplying the misery that the local civilian populations have to endure. Yeah, getting bombed by the Saudis (or Assad) undoubtedly sucks. But, their lives would have been a hell of a lot better if the war had been prosecuted quickly and effectively, rather than having this crap drag on for years.
The only difference is that we were funding ISIS to get rid of Assad.
Anyone remember that one of Trump’s first actions as president was to end the CIA program that was funding ISIS?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/world/middleeast/cia-arming-syrian-rebels.html
https://reason.com/blog/2017/07/20/trump-admin-cutting-cia-program-that-arm
^ Ed Krayewski was good people.
The WaPo said at the time that this benefits Russia (under your bed!)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-ends-covert-cia-program-to-arm-anti-assad-rebels-in-syria-a-move-sought-by-moscow/2017/07/19/b6821a62-6beb-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html?utm_term=.544d57d4fe94
You know what? It probably did benefit Russia. So. Freaking. What?
The reason the Syrian civil war ended and Europe isn’t getting an ongoing stream on refugees is that we let Assad win the war. And, relatively, that’s a good thing. Is Assad a great guy I’m going to invite over for Sunday dinner? Almost certainly not. Is the world better with him in power than ISIS. You bet.
The idea that some people hold that more American fire power can somehow make a situation better is unbelievably asinine. The involvement of other countries into the Syrian Civil War was undoubtedly making things worse for everyone.
There are bastards all over the world. We can’t go hunting monsters
Proggie on the phone to NYT: “hey, we have typically reliable Democrats asking us uncomfortable questions at cocktail parties about Saudis slaughtering Yemenis for the last several years with US weapons that were sold under Obama’s administration.”
NYT Editor to Fake News room: “shit, we need some cover. get Susan Rice on the phone or Susan Powers or Hillary Clinton some other propaganda mouthpiece. STAT!”
Thanks for the great article, Elspeth! Looking forward to the sequels.
Antipope Frank “Nations Are Built By Migrants”
Me: “Which has historically proved very bad for the people who were already there.”
Thanks, Elspeth. I’ve tried to instill this in my kids as well (including talking to school ‘officials’ without me there). Looking forward to the rest!
Good article. You smart lawyah types with all your book learnin’
and stop using my computer!
That’s what passwords are for…
I thought they were for giving to Russian Trollbotfarmers
He keeps making it guzzoline.
Lol. Someone forgot to switch logins again!
Tulpa.
Objection! Contributer is complimenting themselves.
I do enjoy when LH makes sexual comments under the wrong handle, but this one is just sad.
Great Article. Never ever ever talk to cops.
when their prior involvement with law enforcement should have them knowing better
This is a point my father the probation officer makes over and over. He is always amazed that his clients repeatedly fall for the old “Hey, the only way we can help you avoid a bunch of trouble is if you come clean and tell us what you know” trick.
His beef is that you are on my case load in the first place because you fell for that. Why would it work a second time? But he says it does. And a third and fourth time.
There is an element of the criminal class that has a chronic inability to learn.
That will never change.
Remember it’s typically the dumb segment of the criminal population that gets caught…
Most criminals are not criminals because they’re geniuses. They also tend to have a very limited concept of potential future consequences.
^THIS^
Crime is really for dumb people. I guess I’m talking about basic property crimes here, given that all of us are constantly breaking some law or the other.
I’ve told this before, but my father had a speech where he’d show the parolee that he’d actually make more money if he simply got a job. He could have regular hours and no worry about going to jail. According to him a huge percentage would be aghast at the idea of “having a job” or working for a living. That was strictly for squares.
I think it goes to many criminals have a criminal mentality. which is common among some poor people. I grew up poor and saw it first hand. And by criminal mentality they see the entire world in terms of marks and hustlers. You’re either getting something over on someone or having someone get something over on you. So getting a job is something a mark does, and somehow the guy employing you is getting something over on you. So better to rob and steal, even if you make less and you’re more likely to wind up in a rapecage. It isn’t so much laziness; laziness would be getting a job and building a life. It’s that mentality of a zero sum game, and one of the biggest evils of the left is the way it perpetuates the mindset.
I watch “the first 48” with my wife from time to time. During the interrogation phase, the detective always always always says something along the lines of, “this is your one chance to tell your side of the story”
Um, no. That’s what court is for you liar.
I prefer posthumous memoires. That way you can tell your real story (or the lies you think are funniest) with no consequences.
But how are you supposed to get feedback on your work?
Like button and comment section on your obituary?
I wonder who will miss my obit because they already muted me.
They didn’t want to hear what you had to say anyway.
ok, I’m too lazy to do this, but can one of you engineer types start work on a social media linked tombstone? It should display running total likes, retweets, shares etc and link to the deceased’s perpetual twitter instagram and facebook accounts. I want a percentage for the idea.
Just carve the Tombstone to read:
“Error 410 – Gone”
That is the republican version. I’m talking about the one we sell to all the progs.
Vampires would need one that switched to 404- Not Found at night when they were out roaming the countryside.
OT: Cruz Zodiac Joke
So, for years the internet has made fun of Ted Cruz, claiming he was the real Zodiac killer. Yesterday he tweeted Happy Halloween with a picture of one of the Zodiac Killer’s notes. Now folks on the left are /outraged/, outraged I tell you! How dare he take a vile slander about himself and turn it into a funny joke! Christ.
He’s just trying to distract the attention from his assassin father.
Twitter, giving the functionally retarded a megaphone since 2006.
“CAKE!”
Iowahawk agrees.
“Cable news channels are the poo-flinging apes, and Twitter is the dung beetle colony that depends on them.”
LOL. truth.
Obligatory
So I posted a link (too local) about an inebriated cop on duty, so why not a Japanese pilot ?
God they are so serious about this stuff now. I mean it’s not like the pilot has to worry about weaving out of his lane right? It’s a big sky, what is he going to hit?
Drank 1.5L of wine & 1.8L of beed the night before. Test results were 10 times over the legal limit, which is 1/4 of the driving limit. So 2.5x of the driving limit, which is .08 there. His blood draw was over .20 then. Flight departs 7pm. So probably not arrested until about 4-5pm. I’m going with all night drinker. Yet, none of the rest of his crew smelled alcohol. Only the van driver that was taking him from the terminal to the plane noticed. Alone, right? because again, none of his fellow JAL employees reported it, just the driver.
Sometimes the big sky isn’t quite so big
That poor bastard. After this he won’t even be able to get a job as a short order cook. Even if he straightens up and fries right.
In other drunk airline employee news…
“American Airlines says the Piedmont Airlines employee was working American Flight 363 on Saturday when the Boeing 737 left Kansas City International Airport with the handler in a heated and pressurized cargo hold.”
Piedmont? I thought they went tits up in the 80’s
They got bought up by US Air in 1987 and did regional service for them until American bought US Air. Now they do regional service for American.
In 2000 I was on a project for a company that did a lot of package shipping. My contractor cube was wedged in near the dispatchers. The best story while I was there was a depot manager calling in to say that one of his truck loader had been kidnapped.
A driver (owner/operator) had gotten so mad at a delay getting loaded at the depot that he snapped and just slammed the door to the truck closed and took off so he could make his other stops. Unfortunately for one of the guys working on the dock, he was still in there. This was before cell phones, so the guy was basically trapped until the trucker hit his next stop.
It was pretty funny listening to the whole thing unfold in real time.
. . . for some reason they always have a keynote speaker at the end who discusses foreign policy and defense. This past year it was a general who discussed the nefarious work of the Russians (under your bed!) and how the US needed to be further engaged in the conflict in Ukraine. The war boners on all the Wall Street Journal reading white collar professionals was palatable.
Yeah: that crazy cycle really is disappointing. I’m not interested in American adventures, but I believe in self defense – which requires competent readiness. Maybe a trillion dollars is too much to spend on a fighter plane, but there probably needs to be some sort of budget, so I’m okay with some sort of money being spent on some sort of weapons, preferably the coast guard and the bomb them from 30,000 feet types. So how can we dispassionately discuss defense equipment without it devolving into racist alarmism? I don’t even watch war movies: I don’t need mindless stereotypes to scare me into supporting a weapons program.
But that’s the way it goes: racism begets jingoism begets aggression begets weapons begets aggressive postures beget adventures; somehow, if you build it, Amuricans will stand at attention at NASCAR opening ceremonies and chant until inevitably some Asians die. The glorification of weapon systems confuses the masses: they don’t know how to respect or admire equipment without immediately wanting to flex it on someone. How do we put the “defense” back in Defense Department?
The Department of War was a much more honest name.
Why is it the Defense Department when none of what they are doing now is defensive?
How long before they change it to the Ministry of Peace?
Ministry of Silly Walks
It was a lot more honest when they called it the war department.
The “racism” angle which is always the rage with the Left doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. America’s aggressive overseas interventionism has less to do with race, culture, or religion and has everything to do with hegemony. We don’t arm the Saudis because we think Sunnis are superior to Shias or that Arabs are superior to Persians.
The anti-war Left realizes that this has nothing to do with race. But the fair weather anti-war Left (as in, only when a Republican is in charge) are hopelessly obsessed with identity politics and hopeless ignorant about the world.
In the 90’s we bombed the crap out of the Orthodox Serbians to the benefit of the Muslim Albanians, which always perplexes the hell out of Leftists when it’s brought to their attention.
“The anti-war Left…”
Check out the comedian here.
Dood, it’s like totally 2018. America is totes raycisssss no matter what becuz it’s evil white capitalist colonialist. My postmodern cultural criticism professor told me.
That’s well put and completely agreed. Further proving your point, white Americans have not been reluctant to hate/confront/resist/attack white commie east Europeans.
Race is only a key factor for me because my neocon cousins want to gookify everyone, so it’s their shorthand that stands in for foreign policy: otherize, then attack. I will say, though, that I think there is a racial element in the American preference for Israel over Palestinians that predates and trumps any retaliate-for-their-retaliation stuff that’s been going on since 1967.
“I will say, though, that I think there is a racial element in the American preference for Israel over Palestinians that predates and trumps any retaliate-for-their-retaliation stuff that’s been going on since 1967.”
I could see that argument and I don’t dispute that race or culture has some impact on our foreign policy. But, I think our alliance with Israel is more of a relic of the Cold War and domestic politics.
But that’s the way it goes: racism begets jingoism begets aggression begets weapons begets aggressive postures beget adventures;
Yes and no, I think. Some of it, is the perpetual Wilsonian impulse in America’s political class to try to remake the world in our own image. A racist, jingoist, response to the Arab Spring, for example would have been to pretty much ignore it. instead, the U.S. government intervened on behalf of many of the revolts, only to find they made the situations significantly worse. Qadafhi might have been a bastard, for example. But, from a strictly pro-U.S. standpoint, he was a tamed bastard. And at least people weren’t operating slave markets in downtown Tripoli.
No argument from me; your notes about about Syria were on point as well.
My recipe was just an observation of a common situation that sometimes exists (often in my neighborhood), not a national or necessary policy. There are a infinite list of recipes for these disasters than don’t include race.
impulse in America’s political class to try to remake the world in our own image.
This one, I’d say, is fairly common, maybe even the main notion both in the trailer park and at National Review. The ingredients in the folly also usually include
a/ some idea that we can have excellent intelligence on factors of remote cultures
b/ impulse can stand in for goal
c/ surgical warfare = no collateral damage = zero moral ambiguity
d/ it will be over soon and everyone’s coming home intact
Preheat facebook to 375F, stir occasionally, and act surprised when you’ve got 100,000 disabled neighbors and, like you point out, the target is an even bigger clusterfuck than it was before the adventure…..I think this has been the American way for most of my lifetime, so, at the XYZ conference, when everyone starts shouting USA, I just go get some coffee and catch up my emails.
https://archive.is/RlpAX/adace4f5eb43585663d8c88d762de6354ea3bade
https://archive.is/RlpAX/a2946fb2c1c75aa8a1865ee67f373bae58367e5f
https://archive.is/HUhzX/a5cdedc4ae239c347117be23891f17064f5de222
https://archive.is/HUhzX/d964dd027bf10cc6866948a58e781147113a0291
Creepy Uncle Creosote likey.
hop she doesn’t clip a nip on release
You joke, but that is a real problem.
With men it usually happens on the inside of the forearm, but for women…yeah.
See Amazon.
You’ve out done yourself here, Q
Course 6 minutes to Wapner.
Nice article EF. I did criminal defense for the first six years of my career. I was constantly amazed our repeat clients never learned to STFU when questioned.
We are all very lucky the vast majority of criminals are stupid. In my experience, most cops are dumb (there are some notable exceptions.) But criminals are even dumber.
Get a taxidermied fish and mount it on your office wall. Attach a small plaque to it that says “I wouldn’t be here either if I had kept my mouth shut”
Decades ago I saw an interview with…I cant remember who…a lawyer, I think. A study had just come out showing that the average IQ of people in prison is extra-stoopid. The journalist asked the lawyer if that means criminals are morons. The lawyer gave a dead-pan look at the journalist and said in the flattest voice I have ever heard – “No. That is not what it means at all.” Then he turned and walked away.