In the comments of a post this past Monday by Gadianton, the question came up about religiosity among the Glibertariat.
For many people this is a complicated, and perhaps sensitive, topic. But when have we ever shied away from THAT here at Glibs?
However, there are some parameters, please. As you all know, there have been a great many atrocities committed in the name of religion across history, and that continues today. There have also been a great many benevolent acts committed in the name of religion, also continuing today. This is not a poll about which religion is better or worse. This is specifically asking about YOU and your life.
So here we go! As always, answer all questions, none, or bits and pieces, as you see fit.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
I’ll start.
My mother was Roman Catholic, so my sibs and I were all christened. None of us were confirmed. None of us has stayed in that tradition, although at one point I worked for an RC religious order. Mom stayed a member and served on the parish council and was a regular reader for Mass.
My father was United Methodist, refusing to convert when he married my mother in 1958 (which almost scuttled the whole thing). His second wife is Lutheran, going back and forth between Missouri Synod and ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), based on who are the other members of the particular church. Dad has been active at various points in whatever Lutheran church to which my stepmom happened to belong, but has never become a member. He is “quietly religious,” but especially likes the “doing good” activities, such as rebuilding homes after Katrina and helping families locally (his non-academic-year profession was electrician), running food banks and cooking for fundraising events, helping kids directly and supporting kid-centric charities and organizations.
I am an ordained non-denominational minister. I certainly value the legal ability to perform various ministerial ceremonies, but that’s not the main reason I became ordained. People tend to tell me everything, and I mean everything. I have always assumed anything someone tells me is told in confidence, unless it was explicitly stated otherwise. Ordination confers some (varying by state statute) protection against being coerced into spilling that information to representatives of the government. I can legally say, “Fuck off, slavers” in many instances and get away with it.
Your turn!
1.No
2.No
3.No
4.First?
First to hell.
Q is my God and I trust that he will provide (girly pics)
I am merely the messenger, the prophet of tits as you would.
http://www.classybro.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Epic-Boobs-FLBP.jpg
http://img.izismile.com/img/img7/20140715/640/most_men_will_drool_over_boobs_like_these_640_46.jpg
https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/hot-busty-girls-57.jpg?w=500&h=375
https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/last-night-was-full-of-drama-flbp-is-here-to-soothe-your-nerves-48-photos-44.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&w=600
https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/ad806e69bcf5c4c8d467a79166748574.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&w=600
https://i.imgur.com/tgGpDnE.gif
And finally, on-topic.
http://www.classybro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Hot-Jewish-Girl-With-Huge-Boobs.jpg
For Yom Kippur.
I’ll take this one, but if she’s busy I’ll take the Jewish girl.
Born Lutheren
Married Nazarene
I believe The Universe Creator, called God, is indifferent. He may, and probably intervenes in our lives on a personal level, if He feels like it, or is otherwise interested
First?
Wen, if there is a God, I bet we are like a kid with an ant farm to him. He long ago lost intrest. Agnostic here despite a very religious father (RC) and very superstitious mother (some kind of protestant).
1. No
2. Yes, No
3. Not since I was 12
Like SP, I too am an ordained minister, registered and licensed in Ohio.
Long before it became a social hot-button issue, my position on marriages was “Ill marry anyone to anything for a case of Coor’s Light”. Just bring me the paperwork.
Hot button issue indeed. A case of Coors Light should never be used as payment for anything other than paying off really cheap hookers. Ministerial services should always be paid in bourbon or livestock.
Coors Light can also be used as parts of bets involved cross country shipping and Trans Ams.
Although, now that AI think about it, I think that was just Coors.
1. Totally indifferent to religion. No falsifiable hypotheses.
2. Immediate family was culturally Jewish but only vaguely spiritual. The rest of the family was Orthodox Jew. I have retained the culture in much of my life.
3. Gone through various stages, actually became a Baha’i when I was a young teen. Dropped that after about a year in favor of indifference. Haven’t looked back.
I try to be generally respectful of the religious beliefs of others, but when people try to convert me, I get annoyed and often impolite. I have close friends of many religions who are incredibly polite about it, live their faith by example, and are completely tolerant of my indifference (or we wouldn’t be friends!). Yes, I’m looking at you, Swiss.
You know who else had no falsifiable hypotheses?
Karl Popper?
He was full of them.
Whoops missed the “no” part.
That’s what I said, but she still pressed charges.
*Mumbles something something ‘climate scientists’*
YOU’RE A JEW?
No.
No. Though the family did a weird Easter re-baptism in a creek on a family property.
Yes.
Sent to Baptist summer school. Sent to Christian grade school (for a bit). Enrolled in Lutheran credit union.
Pretty agnostic from 18 years old and on.
+1 German “Dunkard” Baptist
1. I’m a Roman Catholic, but I’ll admit I haven’t been to church in years. Catholic churches are rare and far apart in my neck of the woods. I still practice Lent and all that though.
2. Born into a classic Cuban/Spanish Roman Catholic family. I believe my Mom is a stricter Catholic than I am so I guess I’m not too good on the tradition bit.
3. I believe they have. Especially when I started learning and going more into Libertarianism. I think that actually helped strengthen my faith and resolve in my beliefs, albeit I’m still trying to reconcile things.
1. Currently Presbyterian.
2. Grew up going to a New England Congregationalist church.
3. I still believe although The Almighty and I have had some serious disagreements.
When we escape NJ, we won’t be joining another PUSA church.
Lol. My gf is pitching a fit at the tv with the whole Kavanaugh thing.
She has achieved shit-lady status, to be sure.
?????
Good for her!
Sounds like a keeper.
1. I’m an atheist. I don’t really like telling people, because assumptions come flying out of the wood work. I don’t care what you believe in so long as you don’t try to force your beliefs on me. I have many friends of all religions.
2. I grew up in a Catholic family, decided I was an atheist in high school. I married in a Catholic ceremony to appease the elders. Since my wedding I haven’t been back other than a couple funerals. I still celebrate the holidays with family.
3. High school was when I decided I didn’t believe. My lack of belief mostly has to do with the logic behind religion. I can’t blindly follow, I need to see it to believe it. Seeing multi-million churches pop up on every corner has pushed me further away. Learning the history of Christianity didn’t help either. I was always kind of a rebel in my youth, finding ways to avoid church as much as possible. I remember being quite the smart ass when I had to go to an anti-abortion class for Sunday school. It ended up with me being sent home. While my opinions on religion haven’t changed, my views on abortion have shifted more towards pro life. I don’t see myself ever going back to religion. I’m raising my daughter’s to allow them to choose their beliefs when they are the right age.
Which religion has the coolest symbols?
Raelians ?
“The Raëlian baptism is known as transmission of the cellular plan”
If I port my phone number from Sprint to Verizon does that count?
If you like your number, you can keep your number.
666?
Zoroastrianism has Freddy Mercury…
1. Yes, Christian
2. No
3. Yes. I realized that God is not counting our sins against us, since Christ bore the sins of the world at the cross, so an individual’s behavior does not determine standing with God.*
*No, I’m not saying everyone goes to heaven. Not having sins counted against you doesn’t make you righteous. When you believe what Christ accomplished where your sins are concerned, you are declared righteous.
I’ll second your number 3 and add that my real faith in God got stronger when I took calculus, physics, and chemistry in high school and realized how beautifully the world/universe was designed. I realize that many scientists are atheists. I believe God is a scientist.
1) yes, Protestant Christian. Exact variety is dependent on local church. Still looking in my new place…
2) yes, Southern Baptist.
*waggles eyebrows*
How you doin’?
Hope all is well! We miss you!
Actually, the last study I read, albeit a number of years ago, the majority of scientists identified as Christian because of the reasons you stated.
I was born into and was confirmed in the United Methodist Church, and they have a pretty good theology.
I have major depression and dysthemia; medication has kept the longing for death, despair, self-loathing, and violent rages well under control, but the depressive episodes continue to happen, just without the nasty symptoms.
What is noticable is I have a completely different outlook in my depressed/non-depressed states. When I am “normal,” I sincerely believe, and have even experienced… things. Yes, I know this all points to everything being neurochemical, but that’s the way it is.
When I am depressed, I am a nihilist. Frankly, existentialism and all other materialist outlooks seem fucking stupid and cowardly in that condition. Nihilism has the single redeeming quality of being possibly true, which is something none of the rest can say.
I feel this.
I may have pointed this out before: similar personality types have similar interests and similar world views.
I still have to gripe that no one bit on my ‘you know who else…’
No, who else?
I honestly don’t know given that all my dealings with the RC were between the ages of about 5 and 12, with minor contact up until about 16 – and that I was very resistant to all of it, except for the more social aspects (i.e. everything that happened outside mass or Sunday school).
Looking back, that was one of my favorite parts about the RC. I loved going to the Youth Groups at my high school and church.
1. No
2. It’s complicated
3. Yes
SP. “I am an ordained non-denominational minister.” I know nothing here, but I would have thought that ordination would be a function of a specific church (denomination). From my perspective of total ignorance this seems a non sequitur.
Non-denom churches have structure, it’s just that the ministerial uniform seems to be Hawaiian t-shirts and khaki shorts, and the hymns are butt-rock.
Well, I tend to identify as a particular religion, but in the most broad terms. Can’t really get into it without doxxing myself. I am not ordained in that religion (the why not is complicated).
However, “ministering” to people’s spirits does not, in my view, mean a specific religious tradition. It’s not “counseling,” of course, but more a ministry of compassionate listening.
The trajectory from “not religious” or atheistic to religious is a lot more interesting to me than the reverse. Except in cases of “I lived my life recklessly and found God at my lowest (because the alternative is further self-destruction)” (which may be the most common cause, fwiw) it seems rarer and less homogeneous; the stories are more varied and unique.
So, if that’s you, feel free to elaborate.
That was the case for one of the priests at my parish back in the times I went. The man got around, lived on the edge, and went all over the place as a drifter before becoming the coolest priest the parish ever had.
Not religious. From an Episcopal family, but went to a RC high school. However, both my wife and son are observant Roman Catholics.
From my schooling I knew more about my wife’s faith than she did. It annoyed her enough that she actually studied it and became a a Catechist for a good number of years.
Live and let live has been my faith.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
No.
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
My family is strong Roman Catholic. I am an atheist, so I have not definitely remained in that tradition.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
I don’t think I ever really believed, like felt in my gut, that God existed. I went to church because mom and dad went, I sang along to the songs, I took part in the sacraments…but I never felt anything. I never really bought Santa, either.
I went through a (thankfully brief) phase in my late teens-early 20s of HURR DURR DEM BLEEVERS IS STOOOPID, like all good capital-A atheists. If I had to label myself, I’d say “agnostic atheist”. I believe no god exists, but I (obviously) cannot be sure. That’s not a hedge to avoid hell, BTW; just relating my position. If a god exists, I doubt that a being capable of creating everything would be bothered that one of his creations had some doubts.
Mom was Italian Catholic, dad was Scottish Presbyterian. Religion was a huge part of my mom’s side, almost existent on my dad’s. Dad converted a million years ago, but neither have been active in the church for years. None of my siblings are religious at all.
My wife came from a staunch Catholic family. We actually attended quite often before we had kids. Both kids were christened at the Basilica of St. Mary in Minneapolis, still one of my favorite churches ever.
But then the bad shit started. We bailed for an Episcopal church that a friend recommended. The people were nice, but the proggy vibe was insane. We left again.
Ended up at a local Lutheran church that a ton of friends attended, primarily because of their kid programs. The Pastor was the best I’ve ever seen. Relevant, funny and insightful. By that time in my life I was definitely not a believer, but I liked it there. My kids had a blast and the indoctrination was very inoffensive to me. Both were confirmed and then – nothing. I haven’t set foot there since Easter.
I’m not sure what I’ll do going forward. I’ve been very interested in the different opinions here, but I struggle with the spiritual part of my life. I definitely can see the community part and the accompanying support, but…
Great idea for a poll. I’m looking forward to the responses.
1) Not really. I go to Church from time to time because the wife feels we should. She goes more often – alone. While I sit in my underwear as our daughter sleeps in. I admit we should be less flippant. But you know.
2) I’m Roman Catholic. My mother (her family was instrumental in bringing the Pentecostal Church to Montreal and I believe even Florida – or something. I don’t know. Most were degenerate musicians and artists anyway) is Pentecostal Protestant. Was exposed to that when I was young. We were always the only Catholic table at the Protestant gatherings. I can still here the sneering. I remember one time when the Pastor asked everyone to bow their heads to pray before we ate, my brother in law reached for the bread. Heathens we are. I’m still convinced Pastor Dave to this day doesn’t like us very much. I can just feel it through his eyes. Fuck him. I should fuck his wife. My wife is Maronite (Eastern Church) on her father’s side. Nice rituals – and food. Her mother’s maternal family is originally from Rhode Island and Italian Roman Catholic.
3) I’m a muppet. So…no?
Quick relevant story. My father is defying and baffling the ICU doctors as he battles for his life. Today the Priest came to give communion because they felt it was time for comfort care. We weren’t convinced and decided to keep fighting (given he’s done and won this before) even though the odds are not exactly in his favor.
Today, though, he was alert and acting as if nothing happened much to the stunned nurses and doctor.The priest chose not to give communion because he had an oxygen mask but I could see something was off with his face. He can’t speak because he has paralyzed vocal chords so I have to ‘guess’. When the priest left he waved him off furiously. My mother said he’d come back and that only agitated him more. Think Damian in front of the Church in The Omen. I calmed him down and asked him in Italian, ‘what are you atheist?’
And his eyes opened wide and nodded in the affirmative.
Who knew?
And he has a damn wicked rebellion, anarchist streak in him. He literally fucking hates authority. He always smiles whenever he hears his grand children act out. Same with us growing up. But he always made sure to keep us in line.
There you go. The more you know.
‘I can still HEAR the sneering.’
Shit Rufus, I’m sorry to hear that. I hope things go the way the old man wants.
My thoughts exactly. Well said. Sorry to hear Rufus.
Hope you old man gets better, Rufus.
your*
SMDH
Best wishes for your dad, Rufus. That sucks.
Sorry 🙁
Thanks all.
Thoughts and prayers, Rufus. I lost my dad in 2004 after a lingering illness. I’m the one that took him off life support.
I totally understand you. We came close last night. Brutal. Just brutal. Traumatizing even.
Yes, it is. It will stick with you for years. Focus on the good times.
I love your dad.
Sorry to hear that Rufus. That sucks.
Sorry to hear things are dicey with your Dad. He sounds like a real character.
Oh, definitely a Glibertarian in spirit – and a character. The staff at the hospital get a kick out of his mannerisms and hand gestures.
He’d probably put Reason to shame on what it means to be a true independent, middle finger, iconoclast. Of course, growing up we thought he was just an asshole but now we know better. But I don’t think he even knows he’s libertarian in spirit. He’s just himself.
Right up OMWC’s alley.
1. Atheist, with catholic wife
2. Raised southern baptist
3. Slow drift from faith as teen to none as adult.
Raised in a family that wasn’t really religious. I was baptized Protestant. Yes, I am a WASP.
Personally, I think there’s a major difference between religion and faith. I have no real interest in the former, my views on the latter are my own.
1. No
2. Yes / No
3. Yes – at 13 I moved to my apathiest leanings. Don’t Fear the Reaper, baby.
btw, for the poll results, I was brought up as a Roman Catholic.
I gotta have more cowbell.
My thoughts (along with shameless self-promotion).
https://glibertarians.com/2017/09/tuesday-jewsday-ruminations-on-the-existence-of-g-d/
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
No, although I find that there’s a lot about Taoism that appeals to me as a philosophy, while I tend to follow most of what are considered traditional Judeo-Christian customs and mores. I would’ve described myself as an atheist up until pretty recently, but I think if I’m being honest with myself I’m really an agnostic.
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
Mos def. My family was and still largely is Episcopalian, and I was raised Episcopalian through my childhood. Now, being Episcopalianism, this isn’t really much of a burden. It’s often described as Catholic Light, and that’s pretty accurate given my experiences with both, although Episcopalians are much stricter when it comes to decor and tradition; I’ve always been somewhat taken aback by how “contemporary” a Catholic service is compared to the reassuringly historic feel of most Episcopal churches, with a real pipe organ and old hymns. At any rate, although I’ve been baptised I don’t attend and don’t consider myself a member. I’d considered going back, but I can’t really do it with sincerity and so haven’t.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
Boy howdy. Let’s see…around 14 I started getting into Wicca. Now, nearly all my life I’ve had a serious, active, intense desire to get to the bottom of the metaphysical, and that has led me to a number of different places. That some of these places coincided with phases in my life or, well, girls, are, and I’m not saying this with a wink and a nod, largely coincidental. As a case in point, I was a sincere Wiccan for some years even after I ditched the Bauhaus and the Siouxsie Sioux lookalikes until I reached a point where I no longer found it convincing. I delved back into the Episcopal church, even making the unusual effort to attend services other than Midnight Mass. I even briefly flirted with Evangelical Christianity–yes, primarily because a girl I was dating was one herself and wouldn’t sleep with me unless I went to a Bible study thing with her. I considered joining a Unitarian Universalist church but figured if I just want to go have a sing-a-long while I think about the miscellaneous divine there’s always happy hour.
I, too, have recently become an ordained non-denominational minister, specifically because a couple of my friends asked me to officiate their wedding. Frankly, I hadn’t thought about the “confessional” aspect, but that’s an interesting take I’m going to consider. My friends and family call me “the vault” because I never, and I mean never, divulge a secret, so I’d make a great confessor.
As for future religious considerations, I’m pretty content where I am, which is sort of a general sense that there’s something more than meets the eye, but whatever it is or isn’t it’s generally better to be nice to each other and treat people with respect, kindness, and dignity. Honesty’s a good thing, too, but so is tact. Avoid doing harm if you can, and if you can’t, at least don’t be cruel. Apologize when you’re wrong, and sometimes even if you’re right.
Now that I’ve got a kid turned 3 and at least one more kid on the way, I do think about getting involved with a church if for no other reason than for the social aspect, and to give my kids some sort of structure. Then again, that’s what my wife and I are for, so maybe the best thing to do is to just lead by example and let our kids figure the rest out for themselves.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
Non-denominational Christian, though we aren’t exactly picky about where we go.
The church we attend is a Reformed Church. Good people, though I don’t get the idea of infant baptism.
Tons of reformed churches around here (area has a big Dutch heritage)
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
Mom took us to the baptist church she attended as a kid. She stopped taking us when I was age 9 (dunno why), dad only went for weddings and funerals.
After that I didn’t go to any church until after I got married in mid-20s
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
All that has really changed much is the level of commitment, and now a far greater understanding.
https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1042492554737065984
Funny, I didn’t even think of that.
A lot of people hate Woods for all the wrong reasons but I cant remember anyone denying that the guy is brilliant.
He’s brilliant. He’s just a supreme asshole.
Still wish I could remember why he blocked me on twitter.
Did you out-asshole James Woods?? Dayum.
PS. I love James Woods. Everything I’ve seen him in, everything since.
I hope you remember because now I’m very curious.
Love this.
Well, unless she was born on Jan. 1, she was 15 in two different years. Did she state a month that it happened?
Not as far as I know, but few people have seen the original letter she sent DiFi.
1. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (but y’all already knew that).
2. Born and raised LDS. Don’t live it as well as I should (who does?), but I’m still here.
3. I used to have a very narrow, rule-bound view of who would achieve what level of glory. As I’ve grown older — and read more widely — I’ve realized that 1) their salvation is not based on my opinion, 2) my job is to be the best me I can and help where I can, and 3) I’ve learned more about grace. For some reason, I grew up thinking that grace only kicked in after we’ve run out of gas. I now realize that grace is the plan — not the backup. I suspect that more people will qualify for exaltation than most people expect.
3) I’ve learned more about grace. For some reason, I grew up thinking that grace only kicked in after we’ve run out of gas. I now realize that grace is the plan — not the backup.
Nice. I like that.
I highly recommend “Grace is Not God’s Backup Plan” by Adam Miller. He’s got some good new Mormon writing and the kindle versions are pretty cheap.
My dad told me to read that a couple of years ago. I’ll second your recommendation – it’s well worth the read.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
Nope. Atheist. Should point out that I’m not nor do I care for “evangelical” atheists. I’m a whatever-floats-your-boat sort.
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
Nope. Dad was an atheist, Mom is a sort of squishy Jefferson-style Deist.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
Not really. Wasn’t raised with a religion, never felt the need for one. But that’s just me.
Pretty much the same except Father was more agnostic and Mother was raised Lutheran.
I was born into a Lutheran family. I consider myself culturally Christian, and culturally protestant. This is due to learning family history, especially family moving to Transylvania due to a protestant Prince. Villages were organized to protect the church from marauding Catholics. However, as I said, culturally Christian. Otherwise I only attend church at Christmas and Easter to make my mother happy.
My family is not religious. I took some interest in religion in high school. I think that was mainly because the girls I was interested in were Christian. I tried to become a Christian and went to church for a period of time, but I was never able to have faith. I stopped going when I had to admit to myself that I was more interested in meeting girls than becoming religious.
+1 making out with Valerie on the bus to the youth group retreat.
I’m going to hell…
If that’s why, then so is every boy who went on retreat and found a girlfriend.
No Good I recognize would send me to hell for making out with a cute girl named Flora while my best friend plays wing man getting the attention of her sister named Fauna at a Mormon get together.
That’s the Adam’s Family.
The operative word is “if.” 😉 God knows all about young love… and lust.
Y’all making me feel bad for my socially awkward and naive youth. There were some very beautiful ladies at the youth group when teenager me used to go.
Don’t. Socially awkward doesn’t begin to describe me as a teenager, plus shy, plus introverted. The Church puts on dances every month at the stake (geographical grouping of 4 – 6 congregations) level for youth 14 – 18. My dad ignored my every objection to make me go when I turned 14. I religiously held up the walls at those dances for 2 years before ever I asked a girl to dance, and the Mormon girls in SoCal are the class of the world.
That’s awesome and thanks, that helps me feel better. *writes a few notes on SoCal Mormons*
With a tongue like a cow
She can make you go WOW!
….catholic girls
Catholic Girls,
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
I guess I’d call myself nominally Jewish? I adhere to a lot of the traditions (fasted for Yom Kippur, for example) but that’s about it.
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
Was raised at a Conservative Jewish synagogue. Definitely not there now. When I do go to temple (usually once a year, on Rosh Hashanah) it’s a reform temple.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
I’ve been pretty much where I am now in terms of religion since I was about 15. I married a Methodist (my father absolutely would not accept it for a while. He came around, eventually).
Daughter is being raised without much religion. She learns the Jewish stuff from me and she goes to the children’s service for Christmas at the church my in laws go to. She can decide for herself when she gets older.
1. Not a member of any church or religious organization.
2. My immediate family was a-religious. Never heard my mom utter a single religious thought except the Golden Rule and “If you can’t say anything nice…” Mad dad would bad mouth anything that looked like an organization. His religious teachings were “honor your word”, “measure twice and cut once” and “you can cut it shorter, you can’t cut it longer.” He built wooden boats.
The religious mix amongst my grandparents and further back is pretty motley, like the nationalities.
Mother’s side LDS. They converted about the time she graduated HS and she didn’t follow. If I had to chose a religion it would be LDS.
Father’s side lapsed Irish RC. More fun are the Dutch Reformers who came over as a group to form a community. Also a string of Christian Church preachers. I’ve got a book written by my GGG grandfather: “The Problem of Problems: Is Man Material?” I tried,but it’s impenetrable. The preacher string was broken by my G Grandfather who became a self-taught engineer.
3. I’ve never been religious which bothered me some as a kid as the world around my family was. Even as a child I saw Bible stories as allegory. I thought the Greeks and Aesop were better stories.
Maybe there’s a god (but he’s likely not your God” ) but I don’t think it matters. Better to think the Universe has no Meaning beyond what we each give it through our friends and family. There’s no second chance – do the best you can with this one. Seems to me that’s more moral than “do as you’re told or else.” But part of me envies those that find comfort and meaning in their faith. I just can’t do faith.
1) Not really. I attend a local Lutheran church because my wife likes it and because it provides a good community for my kids. But I can’t read the bible and think “Yes, now I will take these lessons of disintermediation, social egalitarianism, and anti-hierarchy and build a single-purpose structure in which to hold arbitrary rituals in support of faith intermediation and hierarchy.”
2) Yes, into a Roman Catholic church. Hells to the no. I only regret I have but one life to leave the church with. I still am deeply drawn to the aesthetics of a Catholic service, and I know a lot of Catholic faithful and low-level functionaries in the church that I think are good people. But I left the church for doctrinal reasons before all the kiddy diddling stuff, and more importantly the cover ups, came to light. So I mostly see the Church proper as a dinosaur preying on the guilt, shame, and fear of good folks in order to aggrandize itself in clear perversion of the teachings of Christ.
3) Yes. Very much so. Like I said, I used to be RC. I went all in when I was a teen. Now, I’m 180 from that. I think “church” is more properly what happens when a band of Christians sit around a dinner table, break bread, and build relationships on both shared faith and shared secular stuff. I don’t think there are any ‘purity tests’ other than acceptance of the new covenant.
I still am deeply drawn to the aesthetics of a Catholic service…
I still miss Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. No other service, including Easter, ever did it for me like that did.
Yup. The pre-Vatican II liturgy and the Latin Mass were aesthetically moving.
I watch the TV broadcast from St. Patrick’s (NYC) every year even though I’m not a believer. It is very moving. And I rather like Cardinal Dolan.
Good Friday Mass was a good workout mass. Much standing then sudden kneeling and back to standing.
Jesus had great abs.
Jesus definitely lifted.
Ask me about my program: Three Days To SHREDDED Abs
Sticking a sword in them will do that.
There’s a lot in your answer that is similar to me. I too was raised Catholic, and am by far most comfortable with the aesthetics and trappings of Catholic mass. Something about most Protestant services always was unsettling to me, probably because most of them lack the somber sense of awe and history that a traditional mass (you can stuff that “and with your spirit” stuff and the modern hymns). And I too have ended up at Lutheran churches because a)it’s my wife’s church and b)it’s very similar to a Catholic mass, so I feel comfortable with it.
1. No
2. Yes, Roman Catholic
3. Yes, when I was about 16, but went to mass and such until I left home for college
I’m an agnostic. There’s no falsifiable evidence for some cosmic being, but there’s no incontrovertible evidence against one either so I dunno.
1. No
2. Yes, mom’s side of the family were ultra-Catholics, dad’s side were methodists but not really
3. No.
My mom’s side of the family totally bought into the Catholic faith. Gramma told an aunt that she wished she were dead instead of marrying a protestant. Gramma thought doing the mass in the vernacular was a huge fuck up. When I was younger my mom left the Catholic church because she was a feminist and thought the Church was too patriarchal. Ended up in the Episcopalian church. When I was a teen the deal was that once I was confirmed I could stop going to church. I don’t think I have ever voluntarily gone to church since the Sunday I was confirmed.
The only time I ever liked going to church was during boot camp. For an hour or so, you got to sit in a pew and not get yelled at. It was great.
BTW, I tend to identify as an unbeliever because too many atheists are just as dogmatic as any Christians.
My view on atheism, if I’m right it doesn’t matter so I should leave people alone. If I’m wrong, I’m screwing people over, so I should leave them alone.
Yep, everyone in boot camp goes to church just for a break. There weren’t many Catholics in my platoon, and no one wanted to be the Catholic lay reader – each platoon has a Protestant lay reader and a Catholic lay reader, each of whom say a prayer at night before lights out (I know you know all this, but for our non-Marine brethren). By the third week or so, though, we got a volunteer. He had been going to the Protestant service, though, and you weren’t supposed to switch after you made your initial decision about which you were going to attend on the first week. Now, my platoon was pretty dumb on the whole, and this guy was dumb even by the standards of our platoon, so they let him switch because I think the DIs thought he was legitimately too stupid to know which one he was supposed to go to. His first attempt at a prayer was bizarre – I’ve never heard prayers that were riddled with profanity before. It also was rambling and nonsensical.
There was one perk to being Catholic – the service overlapped our platoon’s lunch time so none of the DIs ever went with us. They’d give us a chit and we’d march ourselves to church, and then march ourselves to chow to eat one nice leisurely meal a week in peace, without someone screaming at us to get out before we’d taken three bites of food or refusing to let us get up to get drinks.
Apparently, our new lay reader had heard us discussing how nice it was to have a peaceful lunch, and while dumb he was smart enough to take advantage of it. Had never ever been in a Catholic church in his life, just wanted the easy chow time.
1. Yes
2. Yes/Mostly
3. Marginally
Protestant non-denominational. Generally Evangelical with periods of Anglican elements – depending on access to local churches, etc. My folks are a little more conservative than me depending on the specific topic, but I guess that tends to be the way – from issue to issue.
(grew up Third Culture Kid / Missionary Kid – but I’ve made my own decisions for a good 30 years plus)
I’ve typed paragraphs already and then deleted them. One last try:
Basically, I was raised a combination of Lutheran and born-again evangelical. I recently finally admitted to myself (and until today only myself…unless my brother is lurking tonight) that I’ve been “religious” my whole life to make my mom happy, not myself or my god. I do know that I’m -at a minimum- agnostic. I cannot believe that life as we know it on Earth didn’t have at least a “helping hand.” There are too many amazing “coincidences” in the flora and fauna for me to believe it was all a big accident.
However, I am currently trying to work out in my head exactly what I believe. I have faith, or maybe; I want to have faith. What I am sure of is I don’t go for organized religion. In fact, the more organized (looking at you Rome) the more I despise it. What do I have faith in? A creator. A guiding hand.
In the mean time, I publicly identify as Lutheran. It’s easier that way.
1.) No.
2.) Catholic.
3.) Although I’m mostly atheist these days with no predicted change happening in the foreseeable future, I’ve grown much more tolerant toward religious people as I’ve aged. I generally view religion* as a net positive for society in general.
*I should note that a lot of leftist belief is often rightly regarded as religion and does not factor into my equation.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
No
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
Born into no, but my family decided we was some “Motherfuckers who needed Jesus” when I was about 12 or 13 and decided the best place to find Jesus was a Pentecostal church with pew jumping, speaking in tongues, prophisyin’ and the whole “make noise unto the Lord” thing. I totally bought into it from that age until I moved out on my own at 18. It is amazing how those few years had an effect on my life.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
I am now just a degenerate but do know I would have been a better person in some areas of my life had I stayed grounded in the roots of the 5/6 year brainwashing I received, but also know I would still be in the dark in other areas as I witness every day with many of my family who remained faithful. I do believe “Grace” is the key (H/T Gadianton above) and I lack it especially when it comes to politics. The one thing almost all of my family reeks of is Grace. They live it and breath it. Proof of that is the fact they have not stoned me.
1: No, Agnostic
2: Raised technically non-denominational, my parents have their own mesh of views. Easiest summation is Judeo-Calvinism with some New Age Christianity in the mix.
3: Only when I went from being religious (as my parents raised me,) to not being religious myself. My general view on it has always been that it’s generally a good thing, it just gets misused by people (because people are people) and didn’t personally work for me.
Born and raised Episcopalian. Honestly I find more appealing about Catholicism at various times in my life but stay Episcopalian because my family have always been so (also have always struggled with following the ol’ six commandment) As much as their is that’s messed up about Catholicism and the historical Church, I respect that they a) have actual rules b) at least nominally pretend to follow them. Episcopalianism in America (and worldwide) is basically rule-less, rudderless and riven with such extreme levels of limosine-liberal proggie bullshit that it’s not got long for this world, sadly. A dying breed, if you will.
1. Yes. Orthodox Presbyterian
2. Yes. Southern Baptist, and (obviously) no.
3. Moved to a Reformed understanding of theology and practice in my late 30’s.
Just to note how lucky we have it in the US… in Germany not only is Religion a required class in high school*, but you are taxed by the church too**.
*My choices were “Katholisch”, “Evangelisch” (i.e. Lutheran), or “Ethik” (which in practice meant the Turks)
**Unless you jump through some bureaucratic hoops to opt out of it
I had that experience in Germany, too and remember the hoops. It was perhaps the most surprising thing I ran into there.
“Meeting at 11 am in room 103.” I got the memo and no one is here. Maybe I’m being punked. 20 minutes long enough to wait? I’ll take a long instead.
Long lunch.
At my work, the rule is if the meeting organizer isn’t there by 10 after, you are free to walk.
So as not to go OT, maybe I should wait three days.
I thought punctuality was respected there. You should wait 60 seconds and then bail.
Usually they are. Someone probably didn’t tell me of a change in plans. Oh well.
First Pearl Harbor, and now this.
Fine. Talk religion. I’ll just here and pretend I care.
Just think of how EARLY you’ll look.
1. Christian (Lutheran)
2. Christian (Lutheran). My dad is one those boomers that went to Catholic school and the nuns beat a deep distaste of Catholicism into him. Actually grew up in a Missouri Synod (more conservative politically and liturgically than the ELCA) church because it was nearby. The church was run quite liberally and could easily have been kicked out of the synod
3. I don’t like any of the Lutheran synods. I don’t think I am a fan of mainline Protestant denominations or Catholicism. I just want a simple theology free of politics and focused on Jesus’ message.
3. Answered better. I think I’ve been more focused on Jesus’ non-violent, simple living message. Recognizing that Christian morals are for Christians to live by, no one else need live by them. Probably had that change in the last 10 years
This was a key for me. I don’t remember the passage, but it was essentially “why the hell are you so focused on how the nonbelievers act? Clean up your own community and leave the repentance of non believers to God.” it was one of my first step toward libertarianism.
1. Nope, I don’t adhere to any particular religion. Kinda take the view toward religions that the Romans did toward their gods: equally true, equally false and equally useful.
2. My family had (has) a strong Southern Baptist heritage, going back to the Late Unpleasantness Between the States.
3. My views changed a good deal over the years. I sampled Catholicism, various Protestant sects, studied Buddhism, Judaism and a little Hinduism and somewhere in there I think I learned something. If you called me a Universalist Stoic I wouldn’t object.
1. Not really.
2. Raised as an RC (I wonder which is more common among Glibs- RC at any point or prior service? Both seem to be overrepresented here). Stopped going to church during high school, was never confirmed. Last time I was in an RC church was my sister’s wedding six years ago.
3. Very religious as a child, to atheist by about middle school. Now more of an agnostic, although I might id myself as a Christian if asked.
Have flirted with going down the path to being more religious at various points- went to services during boot camp (which was nicely familiar and read the bible (because that was the only book you could read and I was a voracious reader), bow my head if someone leads a prayer, starting reading the Book of Common Prayer later, etc. Wife is a Christian Scientist. I’ll drive her to services or association if she likes, & have accompanied her to services at the mother church in Boston, but it’s not mine.
And quite a few of us who are both from Catholic families and vets as well. Maybe such sustained exposure to rigid, authoritarian hierarchies is the best motivator toward liberty and leaving people the hell alone?
So at the same time that the media is pretending that Kavanaugh’s accuser has to be taken seriously despite the fact that it’s already painfully clear there’s not a shred of evidence, they are completely ignoring a far more credible claim being made against Keith Ellison. Try to find a story about this on CNN.
I’m holding on judgement until her polygraph results are in.
I think Not Adahn needs to give her a reading. Then we’ll know what’s up!
Somehow I doubt they have an army of reporters poking around on Facebook trying to scrape up more accusers the way they are with Kavanaugh, where there have apparently been multiple news types going onto a private alumnae group from Ford’s school begging for more accusers to come forward.
Classy.
OMWC, if you are still around, Wishbone Ash would make a great Old Guy Music addition.
Are you kidding? He slipped on a pair of Depends and went to bed two hours ago.
If memory serves, I used one of their songs a few months ago. This one. I played in a band that covered it and I might even still be able to play it.
1. No.
2. Not really. Nominally Catholic but neither of my parents is particularly religious. Got baptized as an infant to make grandma happy and got dragged to church by grandparents and my aunt a few times, but that’s about it.
3. I think my progression was something like this:
Child: Well, all the adults seem to believe in God and that Jesus guy so I guess it must be true.
Teenager: Religion is all bullshit and everyone needs to know that I think it’s bullshit!
Early 20s: Actual conversations with religious people and a genuine attempt to learn what they believe and why.
Late 20s on: I seriously DGAF what people believe and have zero interest in discussing peoples’ religion with them.
I’d join a cult for the experience, but other than that, you’re about where I am.
Chevy Chase comments on the state of SNL:
“That means a whole generation of shitheads laughs at the worst f—— humor in the world,” he says. “You know what I mean? How could you dare give that generation worse shit than they already have in their lives? It just drives me nuts.”
Submitted without comment.
https://twitter.com/McAllisterDen/status/1037678444967079937
The only thing this demonstrates to me is that Twitter is the internet’s cancerous, suppurating rectum.
We should lock her in a room with the “men cause 100% of unwanted pregnancies” chick and then never open the room again.
That political cartoon shared by Blue Pixie is almost literally cancer.
1) No/NA
2) No not born into it but we did sort of end up with a family of hardcore christian fundamentalists and obviously I did not stay with it (will elaborate below)
3) Yes, absolutely but they have been fairly fixed for something on the order of 20 years now
When I was young my parents had no discernible religious beliefs. My father was raised Catholic and was among the last of those excommunicated for remarrying after divorce shortly before the Vatican 2.0 movement made that ok. I think my mother was an Episcopalian maybe? Either way the only time we ever set foot in a church was an extended family event like a wedding, funeral, or christening. When I was about 10 some people came by our house on a soul winning mission. My parents were not really interested but then they asked about us kids, they had a bus and would come pick us up and brings us back after church. Well at the offer of 4 hours of free babysitting on a Sunday morning my parents all of a sudden decided that getting some kind of religious education was important for the kids. So my Brother, Sister, and I began attending the Massachusetts Baptist Temple, an independent fundamentalist hellfire and brimstone Baptist church lead by a newly minted preacher fresh out of divinity school (I think it was Bob Jones U but I could be wrong on that) who was a recent convert to the faith following a near death experience in a Construction accident. Now keep in mind this was in super liberal Massachusetts so it was not exactly a popular thing to be attending that kind of church.
Over the course of the next 5 years I got more and more into the religion and worked really hard to get my mother to start going and somewhere in the year I turned 15 she actually did start going for more than special occasions. Only occasionally and sporadically at first but before I turned 17 it was up to at least 3 times a week at a minimum (Sunday morning service for both sessions, Sunday night service, and Wednesday night service). One problem I had started drifting away from the church. at first it was just questioning things and not really finding any answers but it really accelerated with 2 things the Preacher focused on that year. One was the evils of Dungeons and Dragons and the other was the evils of Rock and Rolland especially backwards masking and subliminal messages. Now I was a geek of the highest order, I not only had been playing D&D since it was first released I was a voracious reader on a wide variety of off the wall subjects, one of which was mind control research. I caught the preacher in those sermons not just making mistakes by stating outright lies in those sermons and when I asked about them after the sermon I was told I must have been wrong. That made me really start to logically question everything they were telling me and their entire story collapsed under the scrutiny. So as my Mother started getting more and more into the church I started pulling more and more away from it. By the time I was in basic training at 18 I no longer believed although I still called myself a baptist on my dog tags.
I never became a dogmatic atheist and because I grew up in a Fundamentalist church in a predominantly atheist area so I could see through most of the common attacks on the church. Sure the fairytale aspect of the relgion was bunk and sure the people who followed it were REALLY flawed and didn’t do a really good job of living up to the ideals they espoused but it is not like the athiest attacks had any better answers either. As a non Christian libertarian geek I started hanging around with a lot of neopagan types but again couldn’t buy into their fairy tales but I did like their community, especially Druidic and Nordic types so I would attend their rituals for the friendship but not participate in them. Later on I also spent a lot of time going to a UU church which I rather liked because it does not require any specific beliefs leaving you to find your own truth within a community of other searchers. Then the Social Justice movement gained steam and well, my libertarian beliefs made me an outcast among both UU’s and neopagans and so I have essentially not really had that kind of religious community in a decade.
I would sum up my current belief systems as…
There almost certainly is not a god but ultimately whether there is one is a rather irrelevant question. If such an entity exists it chooses not to reveal itself to us in any meaningful actionable way leaving us instead to choose from a plethora of competing and mutually exclusive claims. So to steal a line from a song I will choose free will. I will use logic, reason, and yes even emotion to search for truth and meaning in life(the divine could also be used here) to the best of my ability unconcerned with whether there is a god or if any gods that do exist desire my worship or have any particular plan for me. If they do exist and they are not happy with how I have lived my life then that is there problem, the odds I would have picked the right one are infinitesimally small anyway and so I can go to hell with a clean conscience knowing I did the best with what I had and the one true god wasn’t worthy of my worship anyway. Meanwhile I will seek out whatever kind of compatibly minded searchers as I can find (if such a thing exists, to date this place is the closest thing I can find to one) and join with them in a mutually supporting community. This is an important thing because while all of the religions on the planet are bullshit the reality is the church as an institution provides a critical service to humanity that we have yet to find a better way of handling.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
Nope. I don’t even like to use the term “atheist” because of the association with “progressive” Leftism.
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
I was told that we went to church regularly when we lived in California, but when we moved to Ohio (when I was 3) we never found a church that we really liked, so it just wasn’t part of our lives anymore. Short answer: no.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
I remember going through a Christian phase in childhood, but I think it was mostly just going to church functions with Christian friends from school. If your friends invite you somewhere with games and free food, most kids are inclined to go. I forgot about all this stuff at some point, and when I reconsidered it around age 13, I decided that I didn’t believe in a supreme being. From that time until about early 20s was my “atheist” phase. I read a lot of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. After that, I decided that I had more important things on which to spend my mental energy. These days, I don’t have any animosity towards religious people who adhere to the NAP, and in fact I just read a book about scholasticism and found it extremely interesting. Like I said, I don’t call myself atheist; I’m just a person who does not include religion in their life.
Now, *I* have a question, and let me stress that this is just out of curiosity; I’m not trying to denigrate or anyone’s beliefs or “deconvert” anyone. Here it goes: Do you think there is one “correct” religion, and if so, what makes you think that particular one is correct?
Yes, but if I had a logical reasonable answer to the second question I wouldn’t call it “faith.”
Personally, I don’t know if my religion is the DEFINITIVELY CORRECT one. That being said, I pretty much limit myself to keep to the tenents of my beliefs and the Lord’s message as best as I can, try not to shove or force my religion or beliefs in other people’s faces, and try to be a decent human being in general.
My answer.
Drink beers sometimes. Always go home to the wife and kid. Create things others find useful. Don’t be a freeloader. If that lands me in hell, so be it.
1. No.
2. Yes, and no. And the reason is, is that I was forced to attend services and pressured 24/7 by family and friends of family. I however was, even at a young age, for better or worse, an independent thinker. I spent many, many hours pondering these things. And in the end, it made little sense to me.
3. Yes, when I was very young, I just accepted these things. Because I’m just a dumb kid and what did I know? Unlike the grownups, who knew everything. There was a sovereign God, who was THE God, unlike all the fake gods they had in other cultures and he alone would decide my fate. How did I get so lucky as to be born into the one culture that had the real god, not one of the fake ones. Better count my blessings, right?
When I got older, in my tweens, I started to question all of this because I was a very inquisitive one and very much into science. I would spend all day some days reading everything I could get my hands on about science. A real nerd.
Later on, before I had left home, I had already decided that it was all, or most of it, bullshit. I decided that I did not know if there is a god or not, and neither did anyone else despite their claims, and if there is a god, I don’t know the nature of that god(s).
That’s where I’m still at today. What I guess you would call agnostic. The view I’ve pretty much stuck with now, is that if there’s a god or gods, there’s nothing magical going on, they would just be entities from a civilization so technically advanced, that we would barely comprehend it.
A little adendum, since I noted most others are including this type stuff.
Raised Southern Baptist.
Wife raised Catholic.
I don’t practice at all, consider myself agnostic.
Wife not practicing either. But if she did, her choice would now be Spiritualism, the Brazilian type practiced in much of the NE of Brazil. They’re weird, but nice.
Also, just to add, I’m respectful of everyone’s religious beliefs and practices. I have many family and friends that practice different types of religion. The one exception to my respect being if they are advocating converting or killing all the non-bleevers. I’m against that.
1. Mormon.
2. Yes. Ancestors at least 5 generations back converted in England, Scotland, and Denmark and came across and settled in mostly the Upper Snake River Valley of Eastern Idaho.
3. I grew up in a pretty standard LDS home, but my dad influenced some unorthodox tendencies. I grew up in Rexburg, Idaho, which seems likes is 102% LDS on a bad day, and home to what was Ricks College, now BYU-Idaho. He didn’t necessarily attend all his meetings all the time, and even grew a beard (!) when serving in a bishopric on campus (students are required to be clean shaven other than a mustache basically, despite the strong Mormon history of beards). Since we were in proximity to the college, there were several religion professors who attended our congregation and taught in Sunday School and the like. Dad was pretty skeptical of them a lot of the time, and he passed that skepticism on to me. But I enjoy reading about Mormon history and ideas. I ride the line between orthodoxy and not. I served a mission in Portugal, went to a church school, married in the temple, pay tithing, and have 4 of kids. But I have a beard, wear nonwhite shirts, and a lot of the time kick back against the standard program. Faith is a journey to me and I think for most people gets pretty complicated pretty quickly.
What’s the Mormon take on having friends that aren’t of the church? Accepting? Just tolerate? Discouraged?
Accepting. There are a few things that make it hard, however. If you are active, the Church can be pretty all encompassing. 3 hours of church on Sunday, youth and other group meetings in the week, campouts, service projects, ministering, temple work, family history, etc., can leave little time for anything else. The other complication is the pretty heavy missionary push. You’ve got friends who aren’t members? Invite them to everything so they’ll get baptized! So, sometimes the friendship might seem disingenuous when someone no longer accepts invites to church things or Mormons can be pretty bad at accepting that other people might be happy with what they’ve got. We live in Boise now, which is more diverse than our hometown, hoping to give our kids more opportunities to mix with kids who aren’t LDS. But as introverts, we suck on making friends because we are pretty busy with kid and church stuff and don’t have time to reach out to those that aren’t aligned.
1. No
2. Raised in a liberal Lutheran Church – almost all New Testament stuff – The Good News Bible. Just be a good person like Jesus Mom taught Sunday School, had to go until I was confirmed.
3. I was very religious until about 17 when I couldn’t come to terms with eternity. Not sure what I believe now. I guess agnostic but leaning towards a higher being. I listen to a lot of spiritual music (to me) – blues, soul, funk, gospel, etc. When I go see some of my favorite bands I will refer to it as “going to church” and “rejuvenating the soul”.
Little story. My sister, who is the only one in the family who still attends church regularly, wanted a Lutheran wedding. My BIL was raised Catholic and wanted a Catholic wedding. It was a pretty big point of contention. Finally, my sister gave him an ultimatum. Either they have a Lutheran wedding and raise the kids Packer fans, or have a Catholic wedding and raise the kids Bear fans. He chose a Lutheran wedding. They have a rule to not talk to each other on Bears-Packers game days.
My sister is from a Catholic family and her husband is from a Baptist family. They decided in the interests of fairness to pick something else entirely and ended up becoming Methodists.
An Aunt and Uncle did the same thing and became Methodists. My sister is definitely the more active one in their church and teaches Sunday School and involved in other activities.
Dad’s family was pretty strongly Church of Christ Christian (with exceptions) so I had that example while growing up. When I was a teenager Mom made me go to a non-denominational Protestant church in the neighborhood, so I have had a basic Christian background.
So, while I personally do not believe, I cannot say for certain if any religion is right or wrong. So my personal belief is that I will live a lifestyle based upon the Golden Rule and will try to treat people with respect, in a “Christian” manner. If there is no afterlife then I have lived my life trying not to hurt others and treat them with respect. If there is an afterlife then I can honestly say, “I did my best.”
… Hobbit
I see a lake of fire and gnashing of teeth in your future. How does one gnash one’s teeth anyways?
“I see a lake of fire”
I pretty much see that in the future of everyone here. I mean that was beaten into me from as early as I can remember. No way any heathens like us are escaping the wrath. I’m surprised we all haven’t been stuck down by fire from the sky yet.
I hope it goes down like in the movie “Ghost”. Shadows come alive and devour me.
Shadows like in Q’s posts, right?
I have to say that our essentially non-Christian family has had remarkably few divorces. In my extended family we have
my cousin and his wife, he was an asshole of the first magnitude and she was not better
daughter #2 and her hubby after he came back from Iraq. Something inside didn’t work anymore. Whole soap opera associated with that.
Mrs Hobbit and I will be hitting 50 in just a few years. I will not attribute it to religion specifically, but the morals that we were all raised with are associated with the Christian church and basic ethics.
Congrats to you, Mrs. Hobbit, and your family for that. My traditional Latino RC family has about a 75%+ divorce rate. The only people in my family I know who aren’t divorced are my grandparents on both sides.
Have been an atheist since college. Raised going one week to Mom’s Baptist Church and next week to Dad’s Swedenborgian Church.
Ironic that I serve as one of the three leaders of a weekly Presbyterian Men’s Fellowship Group ( I get to pick like 75% of the non-pastorial speakers).
No one at the church (my wife’s a member) has ever questioned me about my faith so all my church acquaintances don’t know I’m a nonpbleiever.
And I don’t feel the need to inform them but will undoubtedly have to one day because the new church deacons usually come from among the Fellowship leadership and I have accounting and financial skills that would be in demand.
1. Currently a member of a non-denominational Protestant church with a former Assemblies of God pastor that borders at times upon charismatic.
2. Was raised thru about 5th grade in a Methodist church, switched to southern baptist at that point, in which I remained until the recent switch to my current church. The pastor of my current church married me and my wife.
3. Sure, but not the important bits. My belief adheres pretty darn close to the baptist faith and message (which as mentioned in a recent discussion, has no take upon alcohol consumption).
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which? Roman Catholic
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition? I was confirmed and considered becoming a priest.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life? Not really.
The reason I didn’t become a priest is pretty much the same reason I’m not a politician, I don’t think I’m better than anyone else and I don’t care to tell others what to do.
Yes, the guy that makes the Hat and Hair cartoon might have been a priest in a different time line, think on that.
You know who else inquired about peoples’ religious beliefs?
The census bureau?
Kleibold and Harris?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXLuqQe8DqQ
Christ, what an asshole.
“AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHRHRGRGRGRRRGURBHJB EORWPSOJWPJORGWOIRGWSGODEWPGOHEPW09GJEDPOKSD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0924QU8T63095JRGHWPE09UJ0PWHRGW”
https://twitter.com/ladygaga/status/266036172122365952
Honestly, I can’t argue that.
I kind of already said all this in the last discussion around this…
1)Yes, I would say I’m at least mildly Christian, though I’m absolutely a poor practitioner of it. My wife has gradually pulled me into her church, Lutheran Missouri Synod. Our church is small enough to be friendly and the kind of place where you get to know people and large enough that it’s not awkward with just a handful of people. I still have more than a few questions that never seem to have good answers, and thus some doubts, but I do believe in a Creator god. I’m not sure any of us here on Earth have the clearest picture of who he is/what he wants from us, and I don’t think he gets much involved in our day to day affairs, but I think he’s out there. I think that Christianity for the most part is culturally beneficial, and I want my kids to be raised in the church because quite frankly most kids feel the need to throw themselves into some kind of belief, and if it’s not Christianity then there’s a good chance it’s going to be something actively harmful like Marxism.
2)Yes, come from an entirely Catholic family on both sides, mom’s (Irish family) and dad’s (Italian family). My parents themselves were more culturally Catholic than devout, really, but they are believers. The frequency of our Mass attendance ebbed and flowed, but for most of my childhood we were never away for longer than a couple of weeks. My grandfather is a very devout man, was a deacon for many years. The scandals have driven my parents away more and more over time. They don’t go much anymore, although I don’t think that’s changed their actual beliefs at all. They just don’t want to be part of an institution that has enabled this on such a wide scale for so long. I remember, in the earlier era of all this, dad still attended Mass but stopped giving to the collection plate. “I’m not dropping five bucks into some kiddie diddler’s defense fund or to pay a victim’s settlement.” Which all makes sense to me. However, my move away from RCC was more prosaic – my wife was sent to Catholic school growing up and hated them. She was Lutheran anyway but had a particular distaste for the RCC. So, despite (as Leap said) having an attachment to the aesthetics of Mass, we started going to Lutheran. The theological differences, to me anyway, are pretty minor and the services are pretty similar. Anyway, I don’t like the idea that God is so picky about such things so long as we believe in him and accept Christ as our savior.
3)Absolutely. Went through a fairly typical questioning phase as a teenager, which evolved into atheism. That then morphed during college into the kind of obnoxious, aggressive atheism that annoys the shit out of most people. Once I grew up a bit, I realized I had no more certainty that God wasn’t real than that he was real, and considered myself an agnostic who had no idea what was true nor any reason to believe anyone could know. There is still some element of that to me, I guess, but the older I got the more the idea of such an incredibly intricate, ordered, complex world as ours being completely accidental and coincidence seemed ludicrous, so I found myself more receptive to Christianity again despite my doubts.
Man, I’m long winded. These things never seem as long when I’m writing them.
1. Yes, Non-Denom/Evangelical Christianity
2. Um, yes–sort of. There was a framework in place when I was born, but it didn’t solidify until about 10 years later.
3. Yes, with an “if”/No, with a “But”.
It’s late. My arm hurts. I’m waiting for the Percocet to kick in and knock me out. I’ll play.
1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which? Mormon.
2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition? Yes, yes.
3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
Yes and no. My father was bitter and inactive and had some unorthodox views, but at the same time was very adherent in other ways that were not consistent. I never figured it out. I also went to a Southern Baptist private school from 9 to 18, which basically soured me on anything of a Trinitarian persuasion. I’ve always been fascinated by the metaphysical (as someone upthread stated), so I also dabbled in Wicca (okay, so that was just last summer, but still). I decided if Wicca was all about deciding what god(s) to worship and build one’s own religion from the ground up, I’m too lazy and I already like the ones I have.
My father’s bitterness kept me from taking the organized religion oart of it too seriously. What affected me most was the concept of the Atonement of Christ, which I understood as “every time you sin, you hurt Jesus more.” That came from my grandmother. So my crisis of faith of Christianity came on early. Because I was also in Baptist school, I understood this to be a Christianity problem and not a Mormon problem.
Like Gadianton, I was taught that grace kicked in when you ran out of gas and was the backup plan. I’ve also only recently started to understand grace is where we start.
Not many of the things the church does or says embarrasses me or makes me want to apologize (although I do some apologetics in my books). None of our history makes me cringe (I had to defend it for 9 years—I’ve heard it all). I see the church generally, organizationally, and individually a force for doing good things for people.
It’s my tribe. I could go to Gadianton’s ward (congregation) or Michael Bluth’s and feel right at home even though I don’t know them or their wardmembers. I can call up a bishop across the state and say, “Hey, my BFF who is not a member of the church is being evicted and she’s sick. Can you help her move her stuff into a storage unit?” and it’ll get done. I know this because it did fet done.
It may sound utilitarian, but this is just what I talk about. There’s more going on in my faith journey than just “I stay because it’s all I know or want to know.”
1) No, most recently , I had a brief stint at an Assembly of God (Pentecostal light, for those of you playing along at home) Church at the wife’s insistence, where I had a brief moment of acceptance and then I got nothing but crickets so I fell back into my agnostic atheist groove.
2) My mother’s side was spiritual but not particularly religious. My maternal grandmother went to Unitarian Church off and on over the years, I remember my mother taking my brother and I to a Unitarian service a few times when we were very young. My father’s side was old world Roman Catholic from Slovenia, my paternal grandfather converted from some flavor of Quaker to Catholicism in order to marry my grandmother. As a result I was baptized into the Roman Catholic Church at around age seven or eight when my father felt some sort of need to give my brother and I a religious foundation. I also attended a Catholic High School after I began catastrophically failing at the public high school. I went through all of the sacraments up to, but not including confirmation. I had a full on papist wedding with my first wife, including Mass, which was incredibly long and tedious. Like many, I had a spiritual revival at basic training. I sang in the choir and I even went to bible study with the priest. Admittedly, this was mostly motivated by the fact that I was able to walk back to the barracks with the other ‘bible scholars’ from my company vice having to be marched back by the Drill Sergeants. I don’t feel too bad though as there were a significant number of my peers that went to Buddhist services merely because they had the best snacks. Basic training tends to make one very attuned to their temporal and base concerns. Any small amount of comfort is seen as an enormous luxury. In any case, I have since fell into my default state of agnostic atheism.
3) Kind of, other than what I described in #2, recently I have vacillated between outright anti-theism and neutral agnostic atheism.
This has all been super interesting. Thanks, everyone!
I love this place.
This place would be nothing without me! (bolstering talk because I’m insecure)
Half true! Now you have to guess which part.
I’ll take CPRM is insecure for 300 Alex.
This is just flat wrong and evil for giving such a perception.
https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/
There is a TON of evidence that being obese causes all kinds of health problems and shortens life expectancy. But don’t let that get in the way of your absurd “fat acceptance” bullshit.
I stopped reading there, does it get any better?
It is tasty, tasty derp. I honestly hope it makes it into Morning Lynx.
BMI is a ridiculous metric to use for health concerns though. By BMI if Aaron Rogers gained 2 pounds from his listed weight he’d be obese.
1. Yes. Conservative Judaism.
2. Yes and yes.
3. Yes. For a time in my late teens I truly believed I felt G-d’s presence. Later, in my 30s, I was pretty agnostic. In part it was due to joining a Reform congregation at my wife’s insistence. The mixture of religion and, at times, thinly veiled SJW dogma made me much less observant. Several years ago we rejoined a Conservative congregation and it has strengthened my faith.
I find the timing of your post interesting. I’m responding so late because I’m just done with dinner after breaking the Yom Kippur fast.
Just watched all 9 episodes of Hat and Hair back to back, damn I’m good at what I do
Oh, I just have to….
/considering the thread, maybe you will forgive?
Don’t strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back there, buddy.
I kid, I enjoy your vids, keep up the great work.
Well I am late due to the hour but…
1. No.
2. Tough to say. My famly were all orthodox, because people in Romania often view themselves as such even without faith. My parents were not really practicing, although I think both ahd some faith in a God. My mom does some church stuff on occasion, although I am not sure it it not more than a social ritual. But all people I know in Romania do the church thing for wedding, funerals, christenings, and the Easter midnight service. I was baptized orthodox like everyone.
3. As a kid I followed religious things because I did not think about it and just assumed. I use to say a nightly prayer, occasionally go to confess and do the bread and wine thing… At about 13 or 14 I stopped when I simply realized I did mechanically out of habit and did not believe in it. Currently I see myself as agnostic although not atheist as I have something inside me that wants to believe in something spiritual beyond the everyday material world. Although on occasion I do invoke God when something goes bad, dunno if out of reflex or due to some hidden faith. But I do not see a god in the Abrahamic sense, more as either some essence of the universe or something Gnostic…
Good morning, Pie!
Thanks for replying.
I am a Nichiren Buddhist. But this is much less of a religion as most Americans would classify it and more of a group that asks us to have positive feelings while chanting obscure and archaic Japanese that few around me (all ethnic Japanese) have more than a slim inkling of comprehension.
I was raised Unitarian-Universalist so in effect much like what I do now except Buddhists (where I go) never bring up politics.
So, basically my beliefs haven’t changed much. I just don’t hang out with progs other than family members during the brief and infrequent times when I’m on the same side of the Pacific as they are.
Morning everyone:
>>1. Are you an adherent to any particular religion? If so, which?
No – been an atheist for nigh 38 years now
>>2. Were you “born into” a family religious tradition? If so, have you remained in that tradition?
Raised Dutch CRC – but I have no interest in this lingering
cultCalvin splinter.>>3. Have your views on faith and religion changed at different stages in your life?
I no longer really care about religion, provided no one else tries to shove my face into theirs.
1. I’m a vaguely Baptist type protestant. My views are my own, and I haven’t found a denomination that ticks all the boxes. Thankfully, that means I can walk into any one of a number of churches and get along with them.
2. I was raised on and off in a ELCA Lutheran church. Generally hated it. Stopped going in late middle school after I was confirmed. I enjoy the liturgy these days, but our church really isn’t liturgical. Not a big fan of the ELCA these days. Missouri synod is cool, though.
3. I was agnostic/atheist through most of high school and college. Shortly after graduating college, I felt a pull to start reading about Christianity, and ended up converting a little while later.
Born and raised Roman Catholic. (Lots of papists and ex-papists in the comentariat – causation or correlation). Still practice, although I attended less frequently during college, as getting up in the morning is hard after a bender and throwing those co-eds out of your bed seems kind of rude when they were so nice the night before.
My faith has steadily increased over the last 15 years or so.
Last!!!!
*turns out lights.
1. Was raised Catholic, but haven’t been to mass in decades.
2. Dad was born and raised Irish Catholic, Mom converted to Catholic from protestant before I was born. Haven’t been to mass in decades, still influenced by Catholic traditions and some dogma though.
3. Went from pretty devout Catholic when young, to atheist for quite some time when older, to psuedo-Catholic semi-agnostic now. (not sure if that makes any sense, but not sure how to describe my belief that it just doesn’t make sense that intelligent life and all of mankind’s achievements just magically popped into existence from random assembly of matter, but I realize that doesn’t require God in the traditional sense, either.)
1. I am not sure what I do can be called ‘religion’. I experience the universe as it is. I do not have ‘faith’. I do not ‘believe’. I know.
2. Yes, Episcopal/Anglican
3. The break with the faith of my parents was abrupt. It’s not something you can really dither about. Though I did do some useless seeking for others until I realized that no one who knew anything was writing books about it. After that, I understood where to look and found others.