Mormons (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), are everywhere, and there seems to be a bunch of nonsense over what we believe. So, I thought I’d start with our basic faith statement: The Articles of Faith. The Articles of Faith lay out thirteen points which members of the Church believe. They are part of a larger document known as the Wentworth Letter. The Wentworth letter was written by Joseph Smith, Jr. at the request of John Wentworth, editor of the Chicago Democrat, in 1842. Wentworth was looking for a sketch of the history of the church, along with some insight into what we believed. Here, then are the Articles of Faith.
We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
The Godhead is comprised of 3 individual beings: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The Father and the Son have physical bodies, while the Holy Ghost is a person of spirit[i]. Each member of the Godhead has a specific mission. The Father is God, our creator. We worship him. The Son is Jesus the Christ. He is our Savior. We return to the presence of God only by virtue of his Atonement.[ii] The Holy Ghost is a messenger and witness. He is the bearer of inspiration and testifies of truth.[iii] The relationship between them is indicated when we pray:
I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.[iv]
As you can see from the verse above, we pray to the Father in the name of Christ (the Son) and receive our answer through the Holy Ghost.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
Sin is not heritable. The first time I heard about the doctrine of Original Sin, I was confused. How could you hold someone else responsible for the acts of another person? The answer, of course, is that you can’t. And God doesn’t. What is inherited (depending on the action) are the consequences of those actions. The consequence of the Fall is that men are mortal and separated from God.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
The Atonement of Christ – when He took upon Himself our sins and afflictions – opens the way to overcome the consequences of the Fall. If we live in accordance with the gospel, we will be able to return to the presence of God. He has specified the conditions under which this is possible. The laws of the gospel are principles which help us return to God. The ordinances of the gospel are specific ceremonies (such as baptism) which are required to return to God.
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Faith is an active belief in “things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”[v] In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Alma adds the qualification “which are true.”[vi] Faith in Christ leads us to a recognition of our fallen state, and our need for repentance. Repentance is the process whereby we take advantage of the Atonement and receive forgiveness for our sins.
Baptism is a ceremony whereby your sins are symbolically washed away, and you are reborn.[vii] In the LDS faith, baptism is done by immersion (complete submergence in the water). The Gift of the Holy Ghost is the privilege of always having the Holy Ghost with you, on condition of worthiness.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer the ordinances thereof.
“And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.”[viii] No member of the Church simply hangs out a shingle and declares himself a bishop (head of a local congregation), or a Sunday School teacher, or any other position in the church. Positions in the Church are filled by being called by the person with the authority to issue the calling. The Church has a hierarchy of who issues which callings.
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
The Church organization is patterned after the Church in the time of the apostles. “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”[ix] We believe that this is the organization which Christ wants, and that he established in antiquity, and again when he restored the Church.
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
The LDS Church is built on the concept of revelation. The beginning of the church can be traced to a revelation given to Joseph Smith, Jr. in 1820.[x] Examples of the other spiritual gifts feature prominently throughout church history.
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
Errors in translation and transcription have crept into the Bible. As a result, many parts are confusing, and even contradictory. The Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and the translation is assumed to be as God wants it. This does not mean that we hold the Book of Mormon to be inerrant, merely that any mistakes are not errors in translation. The title page of the book states in part “And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men[.]”[xi]
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
The canon is not closed. As noted above, the church is based on revelation, and that revelation continues to this day. We believe that everyone in the Church can receive revelation for their own lives, and the lives of those for whom they are responsible (The Prophet for the Church, parents for their families, bishops for their congregations, teachers for their classes, etc.). People learning of the Church are urged to ask for a personal revelation regarding the truth of what they are being taught.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
This one speaks for itself. We believe that these events will occur as we get closer to the millennial return of Christ.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
The choice to worship (or not) and how to do it is personal. Worship (or don’t) as you see fit and extend the same courtesy to others.
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
Members of the Church are expected to be good citizens of their countries. Where there are inequities in the laws, they are expected to work within the system to address them.
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul – We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
We strive to be righteous, faithful, and patient people, and to learn as much as we can. We believe that “the glory of God is intelligence,”[xii] and that truth is not restricted to what we already know.
Feel free to ask questions in the comments. I’ll be happy to respond – either immediately, or in another article
[i] Doctrine & Covenants 130:22
[iii] Book of Mormon Moroni 10:5
[iv] Book of Mormon Moroni 10:4
[vi] Book of Mormon Alma 32:21
[x] Pearl of Great Price Joseph Smith – History
Thanks for taking the time to share. I enjoy learning about subjects people are passionate about.
Thanks for sharing. There’s a great deal of misinformation/misinterpretation out there in regards to the Mormon faith.
Wow, man, that’s pretty succinct. Thanks!
I feel like Mormons get a bum rap. I’ll be honest, some of the Mormon metaphysics strike me as odd, but then again that can be said by anyone about any belief system they don’t grow up with. One thing I’ve noticed around here is that there’s a pretty healthy representation of Mormons in the libertarian community. Is that just because there are a lot more Mormons around than I previously thought, or is there a common cultural thread?
I’d say any religion will sound strange if you let a non-believer explain it. I’m also entertained that thanks to South Park and Book of Mormon, that the pop culture zeitgeist of Mormonism is that they’re super polite and nice.
My experience with actual real-live Mormons bears this out. (with a few specific exceptions who were assholes before they converted anyway)
There are outliers, but yeah. For the most part, even the door to door Mormons are usually really polite (and nicer then the Jehovah’s Witnesses).
Thinking back, I don’t think I knew too many Mormons as friends though (and the East Side of Cleveland has a sizable Mormon population). Knew lots of Catholics, Protestants, Jews, even some Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I’m not aware of any of my circle of friends and acquaintances that were raised Mormon.
Last year one of my kids had a medical emergency when she was visiting friends in Utah. We stayed at the Ronald McDonald House in Salt Lake City. That place was super stocked with great food from the LDS community. Then we transferred her to Chicago, and we stayed at Ronald McDonald there. It was also nice, but not LDS-supported nice.
Worldwide church membership is about 16 million, so there may be more of us than you think. My personal thought though, is that our doctrines push individual agency and responsibility. I think that libertarianism and Mormonism complement each other. Others have different opinions, of course. As an example, my family is scattered all over the political landscape.
Are you encouraged/required to have money and food saved for an emergency? That’s a good example of individual agency and responsibility.
Yes. The standard is (where possible) a one year supply of food, water, and money.
I have a friend in Salt Lake City and she told me about this. I always thought that was a fantastic idea. Also very libertarian.
But aren’t there also a lot (like Evan McMuffin) in the Panopticon state?
I found it really disconcerting that he only ran for President for like three months and 20% of Utah voted for him.
This is true. Church members are all over the map, politically. I think McMullin may have been a confluence of “Local Boy Makes Good” with “These are the Candidates you gave us?” On the other hand, Utah is the state where Bill Clinton came in 3rd behind Bush I and Ross Perot, so I could be wrong.
As a rule, Mormons tend to be good people, in terms of personal character.
You guys lost me when Joe Smith claimed to have found a sacred text buried in Upstate New York.
It was a more happening place 150 years ago.
Much appreciated. It all sounds so . . . reasonable, as religions go. The only part that doesn’t sound like what just good folks ought to do is some of the prophecy/end times stuff, but that’s true of nearly any religion.
I wonder how much of the misperception of Mormons comes from their whackjob fringe, which periodically makes the news. The Mormons that I’ve known all seemed like really solid people/families; perhaps a touch “clannish”/standoffish, but that’s never bothered me.
I would guess that a fair amount of it comes from that source. The history of the persecution of the Church is a whole ‘nother article in itself. Some of was caused by the members, and some of was caused by distortions of what we believed.
There’s part 3!
Clear, concise – fantastic! I really appreciate the information.
Question – how does the “old testament” impact the LDS faith? Are there portions/books which are not part of the faith?
No. We use the KJV, but we do not acknowledge the Song of Solomon as inspired.
OT: I like the new avatar, interesting duality if you switch from new to old (good or evil Mojeaux)!
Oh, thank you! Halloween’s coming up and this is my general Halloween avi.
True story: I met Mr. Mojeaux in a singles chat room (as Mojeaux). The women were warning me that “evil Mojeaux” would be bad for him and to stay as far away from me as possible.
warning him* that I was evil.
I already knew I was evil.
And? Were you bad for him?
He doesn’t think so, so I’ll roll with it.
Halloween is more than 2 moths away. How is that coming up?
I take it there’s not a Costco nearby?
They’re all ready out on display. Also, my wife looked at me like I was an idiot* for asking why we need to get the kids their costumes this early.
*Apparently a large enough proportion of wives feel this way to ensure no costumes not XXXXL or XXXXS will be still available at a more reasonable distance out from Halloween.
all ready
*sigh* yep, professional writer here.
Look, the comment is a first draft. Just because there are no editors doesn’t mean it has to be perfect. just so long as we understand enough to mock you for your mistakes.
I take it there’s not a Costco nearby – in civilized Europe we are not slaves to mindless consumerism thankyouverymuch
Halloween’s coming up
In two and a half months.
But, Halloween is always coming up, so you are technically correct.
Yes. Thank you.
The candy is out in the stores. It’s officially Halloween season.
It is?! SMDH
You may want to be careful with that as a timer, there are some stores that are getting ready to put out the Christmas stuff.
Last day-after-Christmas, I was at Target. They were putting out Easter stuff. Apparently Valentine’s Day got bypassed.
But SoS has all the kinky stuff!
I know right?!
Song of Solomon’s is awesome. We used it as the reading at my wedding.
Well, then there are the Catholic deuterocanonical books that aren’t part of the Mormon faith.
The Old Testament is scripture. The law of Moses was fulfilled by Christ, and we do not live by it. The prophecies and commandments in the book are still the word of God.
Where do the prohibitions on booze and caffeine come from?
Satan.
lol
The prohibitions come from a revelation known as the Word of Wisdom. The specific prohibitions are coffee, tea, tobacco, alcoholic beverages, and recreational drug use. Caffeine is not specifically prohibited. I was a cola drinker for decades, and it never affected my membership.
My grandparents’ personal view was that the prohibition on coffee was based on the caffeine, so they included all caffeinated rinks. And in a very Mormon fashion did not disparage those that did not share their view.
That’s interesting. If I am that reading correctly, Mormons are supposed to vegetarians, except; “only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.”
And thanks for putting yourself, and your religion, out here for discussion. It’s very interesting.
There aren’t a lot of places I’d open it up like this, but this group is pretty good.
One of the interesting things about the Word of Wisdom is how little authoritative interpretation there is. We know that “hot drinks” is interpreted as coffee and tea. That’s it. There has never been anything said about what constitutes “sparingly” with regards to consumption of meat.
Mormons are supposed to vegetarians, except; “only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.”
Fortunately, it’s always winter somewhere.
But, but, but… Jesus drank wine!
*I’m sure every Mormon has heard it a hundred times*
Unfermented grape juice is what I have been told.
I usually follow with an extended discussion on wine making and the fact that without modern preservatives, fruit ferments, spoils, or both.
My dad always laughs at the “unfermented grape juice.” He usually points to the “put not new wine in old bottles” admonition and asks why they thought grape juice only needs to go into new bottles.
Anyone who has ever been to a jewish wedding knows better than that.
He not only drank it, he made it for others to drink!
Just like this guy?
Yes, we have. The answer is the same every time: the Word of Wisdom is a commandment specifically for our time.
It is interesting that nowhere in the Quran does it prohibit alcohol. According to Mohammed the Quran was spoken to him by the angel Gabrielle and is the word of god The sunnah, which has the prohibition, was written later and based on Mohammed’s life, actions and surprisingly, inactions.
So, since Mohammed never used the internet…
There are some adherents who advise adopting a lifestyle that would make the Amish seem futuristic.
I feel like this is something that should be encouraged, but I somehow doubt that these same adherents would leave the rest of us alone like the Amish do.
It would be about as effective as mennonite proselytizers.
The way I understand it, if Mohammed saw someone do something and remained silent then it’s okay. Not the way I’d write laws but there it is.
From the way I understand it, Mohammed made proclaimations based on what was most convenient for Mohammed at the moment, and didn’t care one whit if they were internally consistant. This is why his adherents had to adopt the retcon theory of the inalterable word of allah such that later utterances superceded earlier ones. This has the impact of making his dying statements of ‘kill the jews’ particularly unpleasant.
That is interesting. It seems like it would be ripe for misuse however.
Absolutely. If you read the Quran there really isn’t anything objectionable in there. It hammers on forgiveness, mercy, charity and mostly monotheism. If you buy there are multiple prophets and Mohammed was one and the Quran is the word of god it matches up with Judaism and Christianity. One god, no idols, don’t be a dick. One interesting passage I read, if your slave comes to you and wants his freedom, you should draft a contract and let him buy his way out. The sunnah, which as far as I know is not supposed to be the word of god, is where it goes off the rails.
Or did a suicide bombing….
my favorite Arabic words
* al-cohol
* al-gebra
But
Why does the Fall need to be overcome?
You give one simple instruction and people refused to listen.
Apparently the Jewish faith believes the Fall only addresses why we have to die, work for a living, and suffer birth pangs. They don’t believe in Original Sin that is inherited by all human beings.
I don’t want to step on Gadianton’s toes, so I will only say that I’ve been having a crisis of faith with this question for about 15 years. However you define it “original sin” and its adjacent not-original sin still goes back to when Eve ate the apple, and that is why Jesus had to die for our sins, and Jesus dying for our sins is Christianity 101.
From a theoretical theology standpoint, let me postulate. If you start from the premise that God created man in his image, that would include mental image, meaning God has emotions, which is borne out by instances of wrath in scripture. It would then be possible for him to hold a grudge for early defiance, then slowly mellow out and eventually decide to forgive.
That is the most original and fabulous thing I’ve read in a long while on this topic.
The Fall itself — specifically the eating of the forbidden fruit — was Adams to repent of. We are left with the consequences — mortality and separation from God. These are the things which Christ overcame. His atonement and resurrection make it possible to return to God, and guarantee that all mankind will be resurrected and immortal.
“The Fall itself — specifically the eating of the forbidden fruit — was Adams to repent of. We are left with the consequences …” This is the first explanation that’s made sense to me (maybe I wasn’t really listening). I could never buy the it’s my fault too thing. That, I think is at best, bad allegory -it does not provide positive guidance on how to live a good life.
Deal with the hand you were dealt in the worship of a merciful God does.
UCS’s view is pretty cool. A good way to deal with the OT’s God’s pettiness and vindictiveness
Why does the Fall need to be overcome?
My take:
The Fall was Adam’s choice to eat the apple; an inevitable exercise of free will contrary to God’s wishes. The Fall instantiates the inherent risk of free will: You aren’t free unless you are free to be wrong. It was inevitable because free will requires that we sometimes act contrary to God’s wishes; if we never did, we would be automatons, not moral agents.
It is the original sin, because all sin is the result of exercising free will. It has to be overcome because every exercise of free will carries the seed of sin. Every time you exercise free will, you court, perhaps even invite, sin into your life.
The New Testament is the acceptance and forgiveness of sin. Jesus, as a man and God, showed that even inherently flawed people could still enjoy God’s grace.
My personal view:
The “fall” isn’t a fall. Humans ate from the tree of knowledge and simultaneously became both more and less. We became more because we obtained the G-d-like power of creation; not the messy and pedestrian business of procreation, but the spark of consciousness and ability to create ideas ex nihilo. It separated us from the beasts and simple creatures of the Earth. We became less because we were tortured and isolated from the state of perfect blissful ignorance of pure instinct. This knowledge permanently separated us from G-d because we from then on had to struggle with the existential quandaries and temptation toward nihilism such knowledge entails. We were warned not to eat it, but we did so and gained both the burdens and benefits of insight and G-d-like consciousness. It’s not punishment. It’s not reward. It simply is what it is. Existential angst is part of the price we pay.
Then again (((I))) don’t believe in the concept of Jesus redeeming humanity’s sins, so my interpretation of the story is vastly different than that of the Christian tradition.
You’re all wrong. “Fall” is a season and it’s not even the worst season. Try spending a winter in Buffalo, NY
You’re wrong, too. Fall is a misspelling of “f’all”, which is a contraction for “fuck all”.
Used in a sentence: I didn’t know f’all about Mormonism until I read Gadianton’s excellent article.
I’m gunna f’all them bitches.
That’s the spirit!
The Fall was a pretty interesting movie though
I became of the opinion that The Fall was a GOOD thing. A life where you never died or aged and never had to work would be boring as fuck.
Thanks. My mother’s side of the family is LDS and I recognize all the points. I didn’t realize they were all part of definitive list – they were just there in the air. Which shows, I guess, that they’re not just some things written down somewhere, but truly lived beliefs.
One of the strongest beliefs I remember ( not on this list) is that we each have talent and abilities that God has given us and we, therefore, have an obligation to Him to develope them to their fullest. I’ve always thought this was a positive motivator for good.
Is magic underwear a thing?
And what about Kolob? Does that mean Mormons believe in space aliens?
You don’t need 23 types of underwear.
As long as the one pair is not to tight not to loose boxer shorts…
The underwear is not magic. Members of the Church who have gone through the temple wear it as a reminder of the promises we make in the temple.
Kolob is identified as the star nearest to God. It is used to give a rough estimate of God’s perception of time compared with ours. I’m not aware of any other importance ascribed to it by doctrine.
We believe that God has created many worlds, and peopled them with His children.
Very interesting. Most of what I knew about Mormons came from South Park.
So is this true or not?
that to me is a bit of a ripoff on Rowan Atkinson, although Toby said the Jews were right.
If there’s interest, I’ll flesh it out as it’s own article, but the TL;DR version is that we believe that only people who have accepted the gospel, and received the required ordinances will be able to live in God’s presence. There isn’t really a burning hell in Mormon theology, simply various degrees of distance from God.
That does sound interesting
I would be interested. This is one of the subjects (of many) that I now wish I’d paid attention to while growing up.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss this.
I also think it says a lot about this group that a member can able to do this.
That actually sounds like how at least some Jews view it too.
Any religion that gives me hope that mooninites exist is a-ok by me.
You doubt it?!
Actual Mooninites.
As someone non religious it still sounds a bit weird to me. But I know now more than I do.
Also as someone who drinks way to much, I don’t trust anyone who does not.
I mean a glass of wine here and there never hurt nobody
You must have never woken up next to a woman and thought “I have to quit drinking cause this is just wrong that I am with that…”
nope… It would take “i identify as a woman” sort of situation for that
Coyote ugly…
You chew your own arm off so you don’t have to wake her.
Double coyote ugly – when you chew off the other one so you don’t make the same mistake again!
Where does the no drinking come from?
Nevermind I read the comments.
Do Mormons consider themselves Christians or something separate?
Yes. We consider ourselves Christians. Christ is our savior, and only by following his teachings can we return to God.
What’s the LDS stance on setting yourself on fire for Instagram?
Every old person says that youngsters are more stupid now than when we were kids. It’s a cliche. It may also be true.
No, it’s the perception that changed, not the intellect of the upcoming generation. Kids were always ignorant and thought themselves wise, and when they grow up thew look at the new crop and go “I was never that stupid”.
“The Fire Challenge”
Not many things could be stupider than that except maybe for the Firing a Bullet Through Your Eyesocket Challenge which I’ll assume is just around the corner.
Not the eye socket, but not too far removed
‘That’s too old, grandpa!’
Kids today don’t crawl into refrigerators and suffocate.
I’m old enough that I remember a kid in my school that did just that.
I notice fridges today don’t have latched like the old ones. I wonder if that was changed for just that reason.
That’s exactly to reason. The PSAs when I was a lad included “don’t climb into old refridgerators !” along with “don’t accept candy from old men in white vans!”
Well, we fixed the fridge part, at least.
*turns to stare at OMWC*
You’ll have plenty of time to burn while you’re in Hell so what’s the rush?
I… I don’t even know what to say about that…
Self immolation is not specifically forbidden, but since we accept Paul’s comment that the body is a temple, setting it on fire is frowned on. 😉
Thanks for the informative article and for your succinct and forthright answers to questions.
Pay by the hour motels hardest hit.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/u-s-world/sex-in-public-is-now-legal-in-guadalajara-mexico/1385051461
Guadalajara: Come for the public sex, stay because you’ve been gunned down by a drug cartel.
Every Mormon I’ve met has been a decent person. I respect their embrace of religious liberty, especially considering that they were not afforded such protections when they first began as a sect and were hunted in nearly every state where they established themselves.
It’s quite telling that Gary Johnson was polling in second place in Utah, before he started reciting his mantra “religious liberty is a black hole” and the people of Utah decided to ignore his candidacy.
Are Mormons required to make a pilgrimage to Navou, IL where John Smith and his followers built the first temple?
Pssst… Second Temple. First temple was built in Kirtland, OH.
Thanks
My parents were very entertained by this fact when they visited Salt Lake City several years ago. It was one of the few places they had gone where most of the people knew where Cleveland was, and expressed interest in visiting. Of course, my parents also had to keep telling people that they had not visited the Kirtland Temple yet.
Who doesn’t know where Cleveland is?
It’s the land of the Cleves, a tribe which weaponized disappointment.
You live in New York
And Cleveland let me down.
Ever since the Cleveland Show was canceled, I don’t know where he is.
You’d be surprised. I’ve had people from ask me if Lake Erie was a salt water lake, people who didn’t believe that we shared a border with Canada, people who didn’t know it was on the border of a lake, people who thought we could just swim to Canada, and that’s not counting the number of people who think we’re in the Central time zone.
Cleveland
No pilgrimages required.
However, Mr. Mojeaux and I were married in the new one (when it was new).
No, there is no requirement to visit the church historical sites. It makes for a fun summer vacation trip, though.
I was told I would get multiple wives.
J/K, nice summary.
I would have though you supported the god of tits and wine like old Ty Lannister
Sorry, you’re about 130 years too late. We don’t do that any more. 😀
To heck with multiple wives…multiple mistresses however.
Great article Gadianton. This was very informative.
Thanks for the info! All my interactions with Mormons have been pleasant. I do have about 1/2 a dozen copies of the Book of Mormon as a result, though. If anyone needs one.
Make sure you keep one for yourself.
By golly, the things I learn here, when I dont even plan on it.
I’ve had 2 Mormon acquaintances that weren’t able to concisely spell it out like you did. Nice work.
And I totally plan on keeping this gem: ” If you start from the premise that God created man in his image, that would include mental image, meaning God has emotions, which is borne out by instances of wrath in scripture. It would then be possible for him to hold a grudge for early defiance, then slowly mellow out and eventually decide to forgive.” That’s good stuff, UCS.
Mind. Blown.
Look mormons are good people.
i do think its better to just ignore david cross tho
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/08/19/comedian-david-cross/
gun grabber he
Rednecks get a lot of things wrong in my book, but he’s the only one who thinks that guns per se are evil. Fuck him
i don’t think he qualifies as redneck. he’s from atlanta, which in my own backwoods redneck system of heirarchy makes him a big city fella, if still nominally ‘southern’ (tho in no other respects)
if you can’t skin and cook small game, you’re not a redneck, imo
(*inverse jeff foxworthy thoughts)
if you don’t dust your living room with a leafblower, you’re not a redneck.
He’s from Atlanta? Never would have guessed that.
His early standup routine (late 90s, early 2000s) it was the core of his set: growing up in the South but constantly hating his surroundings.
when he went to college (in maine, i think) he was like, “IM FREE! IM FREE!”. His proggy attitude always reminded me of Palin’s Buttplug: its like this deep resentment of his own neighbors that is more-personal and bitter than, say, the Yankee urbanite progs (the type I grew up with) The yankees scorn yokels, but they don’t actually know any and tend to be pleasantly surprised when they meet them in real life. Whereas the southern progs have a chip on their shoulder because they think their scorn elevates them from their surroundings.
I feel oddly better now
how are the Bundy’s viewed in the Mormon community?
https://www.outsideonline.com/2308761/religious-ideology-driving-bundy-brothers
Al really did love Peg…oh, wrong Bundys…
I don’t have time to read the article right now (I’m doing this from work), and I haven’t heard about their specific beliefs. I’ll read it later, and put a response in whatever thread is live. Response to their actions runs the gamut based mainly on political ideology — just as it does outside of the Church.
We lived in Salt Lake City when I was little, before coming to ….Illinois. *muffled sob*
Though we are Methodist, my parents would not tolerate a bad word about the LDS folk. While I remember very little, they said it was the nicest place they had ever lived. Nice as in people and in place.
I just flew to SLC and even the TSA folks were friendly.
It’s kind of weird.
Unlike the assholes at MSP who gave me shit for the UND Hockey hat I had on. Rude!
Always try to fly out of Termial 2 if you can. The people there are terrific!
Ah, I kid. It was all in good fun. The guy had every employee within earshot giving me a hard time. Was actually a little fun. I had a similar thing happen while wearing a Twins hat going through security at ORD.
I don’t travel a ton, but I’ve actually never had any trouble with bad TSA agents. Even in LAX. Maybe that’s because I do what I am told, when I am told (or before) like a good sheeple.
If someone from MN calls another person “nice” you know that other person is unbearably gentile and friendly
West Texas is solid Mormon country.
The most stunningly natural beauty I ever glimpsed was Mormon; I generally prefer oval-faced Southern girls, but she was lost-my-words beautiful in that who-do-I-need-to-kill-so-I-can-keep-giving-you-babies way.
If you see a six foot brown 250 pound 16 year old flying around your Kroger parking lot barefooted and finally figure out that the late evening game SHE and all these other huge, oddly athletic people were playing was simply, get this, TAG, you have happened upon the Tongan Mormon, my absolute favorite. My son’s senior team would have gone unbeaten in Texas 5A but for her brothers: Euless Trinity (a public school in the HEB ISD) plays smash mouth pointy ball and doesn’t waste time with that forward pass gimmick. Their tribal pre-game dance is legendarily ferocious . The Mormons got their word across to them somehow, and many migrated to be part of the Texas community….winners all around as far as I can tell.
The BSA-LDS divorce is divvying up house at this point, but I loved the alliance while it lastest. They were half the Council strength around Fort Worth and sponsored training sessions at their community building. The best thing about showing up for a merit badge class over there was to find out that they had two pigs cooking in the pit and all were welcome….by which I mean the Tongans again: gentle and generous cooks.
If I were to have a favorite, defensible collective, it would be Texas Tongan Mormon…..good peoples.
I have nothing to add other than saying again that the Mormons I have known personally have all been delightful people.
Thank you for writing this up! I am not LDS, but one of my best friends is, and being from AZ I come across Mormons regularly. I find them to be very misunderstood by the general population, who in fairness seems to deliberately misunderstand pretty much everything else.
OT: TRUMP STRIKES AGAIN!
https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2018/08/20/Study-US-political-climate-frightening-for-teens/9671534789199/?sl=1
Could it possibly be the endless, overwrought, catastrophic media coverage about his policies and not the policies themselves?
Chipwooder Study: American Teens Are Massive Pussies
I would like access to your data.
Euphemism?
the blowback when the kids realize all the anxiety they suffered through was because of their parents’ own neuroses (TDS) is going to be fun to watch.
No, it has to do with the hyper-capitalist system of slavery and oppression for all non-whites and women that Trump in instituting leading to a society that would make a Dickens novel seem like a utopia.
Symbology question:
Catholic churches have crucifixes because of the emphasis on Christ’s suffering and our redemption therefrom.
Methodist and Baptist churches have “empty” crosses because they focus on The Risen Lord.
When I toured the unconsecrated Mormon Temple in Houston, I noticed many portraits of Jesus of Nazareth, but ZERO crosses. Why?
Someone mentioned that to me once, that LDS churches don’t have crosses. I have no idea what the answer is.
But now I know, as someone who was raised Catholic but now attends Lutheran services because his wife is a papist-hating Lutheran, why no one but Catholics use crucifixes, so there’s that.
Eastern Orthodox uses crucifixes.
Fair enough. Never been to an Orthodox church.
I thought Lutherans used crucifixes too, but maybe it depends on what version of Lutheranism one attends.
Also, Anglicans and Coptics and most versions of Christianity found in the Middle East use crucifixes
Well I can tell you that Missouri Synod doesn’t. Don’t know about ELCA.
We don’t idolize the crucifixion or the cross. We celebrate the resurrection.
Same goes for Lutherans. Well, that and hotdish.
We have funeral potatoes.
My Catholic mom always made cheese potatoes, it was only about a decade ago we ever heard them called funeral potatoes (none of the mormons around here ever speak of such a thing). My mom might have gotten the recipe from her mormon aunt though.
I was reading comments out of order and out of threading and want to clarify my response; Lutherans have crosses displayed, just not generally crucifixes.
But, how can you wallow in guilt then?
We do. In a myriad ways and almost unceasingly. We just don’t need a crucifix to help us do it.
Interesting. How far does this exclusion go? There are a lot of hymns that use cross references (especially ones form the 19th century) are those excluded or edited?
(I’m assuming that your use of the word “idolize” and the complete absence of crosses indicates that they are actively discouraged not just unused.)
Yes.
Hymns still use the cross and cross-imagery, but we avoid the cross on churches and temples.
From our point of view, the cross — even empty — freezes the story of Christ at the wrong point. This response by President Hinckley sums it up.
Danke. Reading it now.
Off topic – when you see anyone online whose job title is “Trust and Safety Specialist”, you know who the fascist is.
Um, someone didn’t check the styleguide update: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/style-guide.
Just kidding. I remember when they tried that back in the 90s and then kicked off the “I’m a Mormon” ad campaign. It isn’t going to go away, and I don’t know of any members who object to be called “Mormon.” And its way easier than saying: “No, I’m not a Mormon, I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Taco J. Colds
I’m going to hell for that. But it didn’t take long for that to ripple through Mormondom on the wave of giggles.
Which quorum of the seventy is he in?
I submitted it before the change came out :D. I suppose I could re-title the series “Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Mist” but I don’t think it has the same ring.
Very true. Kudos on a well thought out and succinct article. I await the article that explains your username to the general audience.
Yeup.
Oh, dear. I’ve been caught 😉
I see what you did there.
Gonna need a new site name first…
Excellent article, Gadianton. You’re a good egg.
Mormons always seem like very happy people.
I think it has to do with a strong sense of community and very well-defined life expectations that someone gains a lot of satisfaction for fulfilling.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/alligator-kills-woman-trying-to-protect-her-dog-at-resort/ar-BBMb3r0?ocid=spartanntp
“The dog was unharmed.” Welp, mission accomplished.
Required reading before a crew hike my son made 10 years ago was titled something like “Ways to Die at Yellowstone.” I could hear him laughing in his room for a week; people jumping into geysers to save dogs happens every damned year, it turns out.
When I was in the hospital after I fell off a ladder and broke my ankle my little sister brought me this to read. The smart ass. Actually, it was a very interesting book.
I’m stuck on a big project at work so I haven’t been able to post much. I’ll still skim the dead threads, but don’t get to post much on active threads.
One of the nice things about this community is how someone will take a chance to write something like this. We recognize that while we all won’t agree we all appreciate the effort. And were someone to treat the author unfairly we won’t stand for that either.
Thanks for an interesting article and great community!
Thanks for all the compliments and questions, everyone. I’m glad y’all found it interesting.
Mojeaux, thanks for responding to the questions as well.
Didn’t want to steal your thunder. You’re not snarky, and you are thorough.
Submitted without comment.
https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2018/08/20/burning-man-me-too-consent-sexual-assault-burner-playa/876400002/
Also, just like any other bastions of phony “tolerance” it’d be interesting to see what kind of treatment you’d get at this event if you wore a MAGA hat or a big-ass crucifix.
My favorite treatment of Burning Man.
OT: Not buying it.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/affidavit-chris-watts-was-having-affair-claimed-wife-tried-to-kill-daughters-before-he-killed-her
Thanks for the informative article. As others have said, I don’t think I’ve ever met a mormon I didn’t like. If a validity of a faith is in the strength of character and the families it produces, then I applaud the Church of Later Day Saints for doing something well. One of the reasons I always enjoy chatting with the missionaries who knock on my door. Unlike most people, I never feel the urge to chase them off with a shotgun, or lock them in a STEVE SMITH like play dungeon in the basement.
I do have one question, and I hope I don’t offend, but is there any wiggle room when it comes of textual absolutism? For example, I would have difficulty accepting the literal view that Naive Americans were descended from the twelve tribes. Is it possible to view it as a metaphor instead. similar to how Genesis is interpreted by the Catholics?
No offense at all. The short version is that the text of the Book of Mormon doesn’t make that claim. As I recall, earlier editions made the claim “the principal ancestors” in the introduction. This now reads “among the ancestors.” We do believe that the two major groups (Lamanites and Nephites) whose history is related in the majority of the book were absolutely part of the tribes of Israel (specifically Ephraim and Manasseh), but (my opinion here, I don’t think there’s an official Church position) how much or little they contributed to the genome of the modern Native Americans is impossible to tell.
Great article!
Good reminder that I should dust off my Koran or Book of Mormon and keep chipping away at my “Seminal Texts of Major World Religions” shelf. Having a couple of reads of the Bible under my belt I know to just skip to Judges if I want all the juicy tent-stake-through-the-head stuff, but it’s hard with new texts because you get bogged down in the equivalent of Deuteronomist grumping and give up.