Little known outside of Louisiana, the Catahoula Cur is one of the most popular breeds in the state and for good reason. I link to the Wikipedia article and some videos about them because I have had several inquiries after mentioning this wonderful breed.
And a couple more to show how the bacon gets brought home.
Yes, the dogs in the last video are wearing body armor, much to John’s dismay.
Gentle Jack
Cookie
Those look like awesome dogs. thanks for the article.
And going against wild boar…those dogs must be hard to neuter with their titanium nuts.
Requires a cutting torch.
Used to have a neighbor that had a Catahoula. That dog was a damned Houdini at escaping the yard. Very friendly.
Beautiful dogs.
I’ve never heard of this breed. Those are some serious dogs. That robber in your neighborhood was wise to stay out of your yard.
So the girl is bundled up in winter clothes because the temp dropped to 75°?
That’s not Louisiana. Notice the hill. 😉
So true. About 20 years ago I took my then wife to Louisiana (Lake Bruin, Breaux Bridge, Grand Isle and New Orleans). When we first crossed the border into LA she remarked that she was surprised to find it was just as flat as her home state of North Dakota.
*moves Louisiana a few notches up Favorite States list*
That looks like a very cool breed. Thanks for the info, Suthen!
Ha!
Beautiful dogs. It sounds like they don’t suffer fools kindly.
Thos are some cool freaking dogs! I’m a big believer that everything that lives at the house has a job. The cats are for rodent and reptile defense, The dog is for protection among other things. Those dogs definitely fit the bill.
I’ve been breed shopping for when my wife’s dumbass scottie finally keels over. My wife wants a sheepdog and I want an aussie. I’m not much of a dog person, but that may be because both of my wife’s dogs were dumb ankle biters. I want a dog that is smarter than the cats.
My daughter and her family picked up a Blue Heeler about a year and a half ago {Australian Cattle Dog (Blue/Red Heeler)}. Wonderful dog, but extremely energetic. She could run with the dog when it was a puppy. But I had to buy her a Bike Tow Leash so that she could ride a bike and keep up with the dog. This is a daily effort, year round, including winter in Iowa.
I can give a hearty reccomendation to these…
https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/great-pyrenees/
They can be a bit stubborn and the shedding is problematic but they are wonderful intelligent dogs who are both protective but not aggressive
^This. Have you ever owned one?
Yes, she passed about 18 months ago.
The only bad thing anyone could ever say about our Pooka was the kids were sad that she had no interest in playing.
Awwww! They aren’t much for fetch, that’s for sure. But the perfect guardian dog.
great family pets as well. They are patient with kids and they do not overreact. They are better at recognizing and only responding to true threats than any other dog I have encountered. They are also really cuddly, if overly so sometimes (lint removers are a requirement)
YGM
“They will hear and bark loudly at threats whether they exist or not.”
Our shelties to an amazing job of driving away the ghosts that live in the neighborhood.
We had an Alaskan Malamute like that. Sweetest dog you could ever want, but after the third throw of the stick, she’d either just keep running, or look at you like “I’ve brought it back twice. You go get it.
Ha-ha. That sounds like Steele, my Lab/Greyhound mix. He loved to run, but on his terms and for no specific reason. Fetch was not happening.
Lol. My GSD was the same way. “Look asshole, I just brought it back three fucking times. I’ll be over here in the shade – WITH THE DAMN FRISBEE – until you get your shit together!!”
God, I miss her…
We had a sheltie puppy that we would fetch with in the house. I would roll a tennis ball on the floor, and the dog would chase it; catch it; and bring it back. After about a week he figured out he could stand still and wait for the ball to hit a wall and come back to him. Too fucking smart.
Yeah our pyr would look at you like you had 3 heads on the first throw of the stick. Hand her a dog toy and she’d just look at it and then back at you as if to say “what do you want me to do with that?”
The Dean Beasts don’t really “do” fetch. If you throw something (anything) they will run it down, grab it, shake it hard enough to snap a piece of rebar in half, and when it doesn’t struggle, they lose interest and wander off.
A friend of mine had two. He brought the bigger one to PetCo a few times, but he’d get overwhelmed and then just drop like a sack of potatoes in the middle of the aisle. My friend would have to carry him back through the store, stick him in the car, and then check out. The image of dude lugging this 100+ pound white fluffball through the store like the world’s biggest baby kind of sold me on the breed, honestly.
Fun fact- the Pyrenees used for actual sheep dogs are, as puppies, wrapped in a skin suit from a freshly killed lamb, then introduced to the herd. The sheep are stupid enough to think (smell) that the dog is a sheep, and the dog thinks the herd is its fam.
My former pyrennes “Maggie” was around 130 lbs in her prime, and lasted about 11 years.
They’re the perfect libertarian dog. They understand what you want them to do, they just don’t give a shit.
Unless, as you pointed out, it involves barking at threats real or perceived.
I’ve had two pyrs and I acquired one for my Dad after he was smitten with my first (rescue) pyr. He then added another one.
They are the perfect breed for me. The major downside for me is the short lifespan. Someplace I have a photo of my 140 pound male with my godson as an infant. Adorable.
Both of my pyrs have actually protected me in sketchy situations. And my current one protects me from Bacon Magic. 🙂
But oh, does she love Swiss!
He is such a suck up. And it worked.
“The cats are for rodent and reptile defense”
You might need bigger cats
I’ve got one that reminds me of the muscular street cats from Tom and Jerry. Most cats naturally sit/stand with their front paws touching one another. He has a 2″ gap between them because his muscles get in the way.
Anyway. Once I get him trained on the Mk.4 directed energy array, I think we’ll even be safe from all of your reptilian client species. As much as we respect the muppet/lizardpeople alliance, the client species are never quite so fidelitous.
Feline-directed energy weapons can have humorously disastrous outcomes
We’ve got a mini-Aussie. The brains are spot on. But also sheds quite a bit, particularly seasonal, and need lots of interaction and exercise. Very job oriented, if you don’t channel it, they will find a job for themselves.
My boss just got an aussiedoodle. The pic he showed me was adorable, and there was a bit of a shaggy look to it like an English sheepdog. He said the poodle half knocks down the worst of the need for attention.
My baby
What a beauty!
Awwww
Aussies are very high energy and can be pretty destructive if they don’t have a lot of room to run and preferably a herd of something to look after.
Pater Dean has a miniature Aussie that he dotes on. Sweetest, gentlest little dog, and smart as a whip.
If you’ve got the inclination for a pit breed, I can strongly recommend British Staffordshire Terriers/Staffordshire Bull Terriers. They run under 50 pounds and have the classic pit temperament – stubborn, goofy, companionable, not the brightest, but who cares. Generally, exactly what you would expect from a dog that is half terrier, half bulldog.
I had an Aussie. Smartest damn dog. We were at my in-laws house for a wedding reception. They didn’t want to keep her locked up indoors during the party, so we rigged up an outdoor cage. She figured out how to build a ladder with her toys and bedding and climbed out. She then proceeded to herd all the kids at the reception.
Look at American Bulldogs. Loyal, smart, attentive, good watch dogs; yet very gentle and wonderful with kids. Here’s my Kota. She’s an Am Bull mix.
Awwww. So cute.
Herding dogs are great, but they can be a bitch to own. Really fucking smart can be way more challenging than stupid. I currently have a Polish Lowland Sheepdog and raised a GSD before him. Note that most herding dogs are quite protective and will often be pretty aloof with anyone not in the primary pack.
We have had Shelties for a little over 20 years. All the “features” of herding dogs, but in a small enough package to be manageable in house with an average size yard.
Great dogs. I never worried too much about size, though. Dogs all require plenty of training/work/exercise regardless of how big they are.
Right, but you can work a sheltie in a 50 ft by 50 ft space and get them wore out. Bigger herding dogs can’t get to full speed in that space.
True. I would take my Shepherd for long walks every day, as well as frequent trips (in the summer) to the local park where I used the empty hockey rinks to run her ragged.
At the lake she would also swim for hours. I have the coolest picture of her diving from the dock. Amazing athletes.
I don’t have a pic of her here, but here’s my current pal.
Very different from the Shepherd in some ways (no shedding!!) but still requires a ton of exercise, even at 11 years old.
So cute!
Found one!
My girl and Spawn 1.
We had her for almost 6 years before Spawn 1 came along. Obviously we had some trepidation about how she would handle the change. Night one, she left our room and slept under Spawn 1’s crib.
*sniffs*
My two shelties (about 10 years ago) before agility class.
https://imgur.com/aQjoJhB
Beautiful!
Really fucking smart can be way more challenging than stupid.
My avatar was this incarnate. He understood everything you told him to do. And if it was my wife telling, he’d do it. With me, it was always “Are you sure you’re still the alpha? Hmm… Let’s check.”
+1 for Herding dogs
The best dog I ever had was one of these (not from this breeder, they just have really good pictures)
http://www.danceswithwolvesranch.com/
It was the most socially aware animal I’ve ever witnessed, and more socially aware than most people. With a high drive to please, she was pretty much self-training. We got her from the shelter, and her previous owner must not have let her into the house. We brought her into the house in her crate since she wouldn’t walk in. She stayed in her crate. I had to pee, so I went to a nearby bathroom, but didn’t close the door. She also needed to pee apparently, since after I finished, she went into the bathroom and peed on the toilet.
Those are gorgeous!!
Mrs. Tundra said no more white dogs for us, though. 🙁
Get a Golden Retreiver.
Especially if you have children.
This is actually a great idea. They are really easy to train and own. Sweet dogs and typically awesome with kids.
Did the dogs kill that pig themselves, or did they just flush it out, it got shot, then they stayed on it as it bled out?
just curious
Kinda seems like it depends on what the hunter prefers.
One of those videos looks like the dogs hold it, the hunter comes behind, grabs a leg, and stabs it in the heart/lungs.
I have a coworker who has hunted feral hogs in this fashion. He uses one big ass knife.
that was impressive.
“grabs a leg, and stabs it in the heart/lungs.”
That there’s some redneck rambo shit.
i approve.
I also suspect that occasionally someone suffers a world-class kick in the nuts from a mortally-terrified pig
My dad used to hunt feral hogs with a .357 Mag revolver. He told me the process is basically: 1. Find hog, 2. Shoot hog, 3. Don’t miss. They’re big, strong, motivated animals with big, sharp, pointy tusks.
That’s what always comes to mind when I hear some dipshit saying, “you don’t need [arbitrary number] rounds for hunting!”
Shit, my response to “What possible legitimate use could a civilian have for grenade launcher?” is generally, “Have you ever seen a grizzly bear?”
The cowboys in Texas often have a sideline in feral hog harvesting. Packs of dogs (I’ve catahoulas, also pits, anything with adamantium balls, really) run down the hog, and, yes, the cowboys kill it with a knife. They use knives because gunshots will spook the rest of the pack(?) of hogs. When one is done, the dogs take off after the next one. The cowboys generally use 4 wheelers, on account of horses being too smart to want to be involved in this kind of mess.
I’ve had a few encounters with feral hogs, and walking up on a 200+ pounder with nothing but a knife in your hand takes more stones than I bring to the party.
Sounder, I believe.
way OT, but semi-interesting
this got circulated yesterday: RBG’s confirmation hearings in 1993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=TfQxBlQ7wSI
the clip is basically her being asked to justify how “statistical evidence of disparity –> is de facto proof of discrimination”
she makes tortured rationale, then walks into an amusing gotcha about her own employment history in the DC circuit
What she lacks in intelligence, she makes up in hubris.
I think she’s quite intelligent. She just thinks the ends justify the means, the law be damned.
no chance she survives a 2nd Trump term.
What long-winded horseshit. Geez.
You’ve got some good lookin’ dogs there. It’s funny, one of my dog’s is named Jack, and if your only experience with American Staffordshire Terriers was him, you’d assume they were bred to lay on couches and fart themselves unconscious.
Speaking of staffies and pits and so forth, I noticed that the Catahoulas do the molosser bit where they grab a hold of something and just hold on until you tell them to let go. Jack does that; Carmen not so much, but she’s a Rhodie-Pit-God-knows-what mix, kind of more of a big courser.
Rhodies would make awesome additions to a pack of hog hunters.
I almost adopted one from the pound. I’m so glad now that it didn’t work out. I took it to a nearby park to try it for a walk. Darn thing slipped it’s leash & took off. Finally managed to get it back on and back to the kennel. I think I would have needed 12 foot fences on the yard to keep it in.
Carmen’s wasted as an urban lounge dog. When we take her out camping or to the park or out to the in-laws land in Texas she hauls ass in a 1/4 mile radius, periodically looping back to jump over Jack. I’ve seen her catch mourning doves on the wing that got spooked in nearby bushes. In a different place and time she could’ve made a fortune getting rid of rabbits for farmers.
Semi-OT: I do not own a dog. However, I really want to own a domesticated fox. They are really expensive, but what the hell right? Anyone have experience with such a thing?
I don’t, but I’ll reiterate the standard advice: stick to traditional pets unless you have professional experience as an animal trainer. I’ve heard that domesticated foxes are adorable and nice and all that, but even domesticated they’re difficult to live with. Kind of like the deal with pet monkeys.
I saw some hipster couple walking down the street yesterday, and I swear they had a pet racoon walking alongside them.
I had a pet racoon growing up. Our dog killed its mother so we raised it ourselves. It was wicked smart.
I also had a pet sheep named Bambi. Her mother died giving birth to her. She had a doggie bed near the wood stove until she was about a year old.
You forced it to live with the creature that killed its mother? And this was supposed to be a kindness?
Libertarian moment
My friend and his brother found a fawn once, and what was left of its mother. They decided that they would feed and take care of it as a psuedo-pet. Critically, they never told their father, assuming that he wouldn’t approve.
A few months later during hunting season, their dad went out and found the deer, and was amazed at how it stood there and gave him the perfect shot. Their dad did not tell anyone about where he found the deer, what it looked like, our how it acted, until after dinner. Many valuable lessons about the importance of prompt communication were learned that night.
Reminds me of my uncle raising meat rabbits. To keep the kids from growing attached to them as pets, he named them lunch and dinner.
Racoons tend to turn into shitty pets once they get older.
I am told that skunks actually make the best pets, if you want a wild animal. After removing the stink glands.
I’ve heard the thing about skunks is that, like with ferrets, removing the glands basically makes them stink less, not stink-free. Like you’re never going to be able to conceal the fact that you have a pet skunk, glands or no.
A long-past ex-girlfriend had a pet skunk. One mean SOB. They removed the scent glands but it still had some wicked claws. I’ll stick with my cat.
… Hobbit
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/domesticated-foxes-genetically-fascinating-terrible-pets
LOL
Shoulda pet Boris when he asked you to.
When I adopted my cats years and years ago one of my idiot roommates was convinced they loved it when he picked them up, despite all evidence to the contrary. Invariably, the next morning, he’d put on his motorcycle helmet and smell cat piss.
If you don’t have basic pet care experience, you may want to stay away from the exotics for a while. They require a lot more upkeep and care, and can do a lot more damage. I knew someone who ran an exotic pet store, then an exotic pet show, then an exotic pet rescue. Few things are as terrifying as being woken up the morning after drinking heavily due to a a two and a half foot long iguana perched on your head.
Sounds like every Hunter S. Thompson book Ive ever read.
Clearly, that dog works for Big Lumber and has an issue with trees.
Good article.
I just imagine that dog walking up to a six foot fence and thinking, “What’s this for? Shade?”
I was not very familiar with this breed. Thanks so much for the article, Suthen!
Clearly, that dog works for Big Lumber and has an issue with trees.
If that dog works for Big Lumber, tell him he needs to charge less for plywood. It’s ridiculous.
I spoke to him, and he told you go to right to hell. He’ll charge whatever he wants.
I spoke to him, and he told you go to right to hell. He’ll charge whatever he wants.
Fucking capitalist dogs. They’re worst.
*raises fist, assumes
Joan of ArcDavid Hogg pose, stares vcantly into the aether*No Justice, No Dog Treats!
Fucking capitalist running dogs.
Great article, Suthen! My cousin and her husband recently got one of these. What a sweet, intelligent and cool looking dog!
I’ve only had one doggo in my life. We got a puppy black lab when I was 13 or 14. We could only keep her for a few years before we realized we had to give her up. I’m still exhausted just thinking about how much work she was.
She was like the elves from diskworld. Beautiful, stupid as a bag of hammers, and destruction incarnate. We used to chain her up in the back yard, and she would sprint after anything she saw, the chain would pull taught, and she’d choke herself and fall down. She’d stand back up, look in a different direction, and sprint after that. Over, and over, and over for hours. When we would take her on a walk on a leash, there was about a 1 in 4 chance of getting dragged if you didn’t pay serious attention to what she was doing. I don’t think she ever took a shit in her life that didn’t have some string, leather or fabric in it from something she managed to find and eat that she shouldn’t have.
I don’t miss her, but I hope she found a better life. We gave her to a potato farmer that let her roam the property hunting vermim that like to burrow and eat his potatoes.
My BIL got a black lab. He’s been told there are two kinds of labs; one is lab-stupid and a bundle of energy until it hits about 3 or 4, at which age it calms down, and the other lives its entire life as a 70 pound puppy until it dies of old age or chokes on a tennis ball. I always used to talk smack about little dogs, but if you basically just want a furry companion to sit on the couch with you while you watch tv and maybe follow you around the yard while you pull weeds, do yourself a favor and get a pug or something.
My parents had a cairn terrier Mollie. Little dog, but one of the best. Had a great disposition, and had no difficulty with any of the fallen trees or other obstacles on the trails the mountain bikers set up. Quite a few years after she died, I was walking another dog out on those trails, and one of the bikers remembered Mollie.
A cairn terrier named Mollie, if you didn’t get the context.
Feline-directed energy weapons can have humorously disastrous outcomes
“Whose side are you on?”
“Mine.”
It’s a tenuous relationship. Kind of a “you scratch my back, I bleed profusely and apologize for being in the way” sort of thing.
Would get one if it was a Cthulu Cur.
Butts were hurt
The archives of our former sister site Gawker now belong to this goon. Bryan Goldberg, the founder of Bleacher Report, a sports site for idiots, and Bustle, the women’s site that assumes women are stupid, won the rights to the defunct Gawker.com in a bankruptcy auction today, as reported by the Wall Street Journal.
It’s not clear why Goldberg, who received a lot of media coverage after he chose to found a women’s interest site for the most cynical, self-centered reasons, would want to own Gawker and the ability to delete anything written on it. Perhaps it was this post which admired how precisely brutal that New Yorker profile was about him—“With his puffy face and untrimmed hair, he resembles a giant six-year-old,”—or this article, with the headline “Who Gave This Asshole $6.5 Million to Launch a Bro-Tastic Lady Site?” Maybe it was one of these blogs that irked Bryan so much that he decided wanted to spend (a reported) $1.35 million on the site that wrote it. If he doesn’t cremate Gawker’s corpse, but instead tries to revive it, it’s a sure thing that the result will be substantially dumber than the original thing.
The heirs of Gawker seem rather disappointed with the outcome of the bankruptcy auction. Pissy, even.
*masturbates furiously*
I saw that the Onion and the Onion AVClub are also up for sale right now.
Local Man Shocked to Discover Job Evaporates After His Shop Unionizes
Why are these people being so mean to me just because I was being mean to them!! There’s nothing I could have done to avoid this!!
Why are they entering such a large judgement against me just because I committed a tort and acted like a douche canoe over and over again!! There’s nothing I could have done to avoid this!! Its a first amendment problem!! The government is shutting down the free press!! Just because we did illegal stuff and a jury found us liable!!
Lord, make me love my neighbor and take glee in his pain. But not yet.
*not* take glee.
Deadspin’s still around, is it? Is it still presenting itself as a “sports” site? How droll.
the result will be substantially dumber than the original thing.
I don’t believe that would be actually possible.
OT: Worthwhile use of tax money I’m sure.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/46509/
Sluts are undervalued. Prostitutes receive compensation for their services.
Fact-check status: Pants on fire.
Hey at the very least she acknowledges that satisfying male sexual urges is a valuable service and not some kind of disgusting extension of rape culture
That’s part 2.
Observation:
I just realized there’s a certain phrase that has become wildly popular, and i’ve never been sure why…
which is the “So what you’re saying is, [horrible paraphrase/strawman of interlocutor]”-thing
iow, people have this habit of taking something you say, and going, “Here’s my simplified interpretation”, rather than carefully examining the specifics of what you said. (because surely you didn’t say things in *precisely that way* for a specific reason?)
Not a bad thing, necessarily, by itself, if done in good faith, in attempt to clarify an argument. But its just something i see being done constantly, everywhere. And there’s 1 thing about it that rubs me the wrong way, and a second thing about it which i just realized.
#1 – annoying thing: is that it is always reducing complex opinions to ‘bone-stupid absolutes’, where the only views are “pro” or “con”, and anything in-between MUST be shoved into one or the other.
the famous example being Bastiat: “very time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. “
#2 is more-concerning, in the long run, which is: a new ‘unwillingness to ask questions’
instead of accepting that person A might possess some formulation you don’t understand, you simply keep taking what they say, and compare it to one of a selection of “stock ideas” you already possess. When it fails to line up with them? You blame them for being ‘incoherent’, rather than yourself for failing to listen
What i see is people rigidly clinging to cultivated, solipsistic points of view, and only going through the motions of ‘discussion’. Its sort of as though, ‘i already possess all information necessary to draw conclusions on X’ is the de facto posture of EVERYONE… which is a bizarre and absurd thing.
think of the 100s of antifa types who spew claims about “capitalism”, for instance…
…when the likelihood is that they’re some high-schooler whose concept of what ‘capitalism’ even is is completely free of anything so complicating as “economic history” or “the most basic understanding of finance” or “ever having read a single economic book in their life”
take that sort of hubris, and then apply it to everyone, about everything.
I just realized there’s a certain phrase that has become wildly popular, and i’ve never been sure why…
I think its because of the famous interview between Jordan Peterson and some bint who used that phrase relentlessly and ineffectively to try to mischaracterize him as some kind of bigoted alt-righter. He didn’t fall for it and made her look a fool.
I see commenters here using the phrase to snarkmock by wildly misstating a previous comment, and I assumed it was because of that interview.
So what you’re saying is that you’re not smart enough to catch on to commenting trends…
I think using it the way that Cathy chick did with Jordan Peterson is common for two reasons:
1. Promoting re-phrasing as part of active listening
2. People are really, really dumb so if your statement has any nuance or complication or reference to anything they don’t understand it shortcircuits them and they aren’t capable or willing to say, “wait, explain that again, because I am a retard.”.
Q is also right though. There are people who now use it as a meme
Yes.
the former had occurred to me. its actually popular now, because people (either in HS or college) are actually being trained to do this as a rhetorical method – probably ostensibly because the teachers think its (as you say) ‘more engaged’ and active… rather than passive, merely-inquisitive, giving the person you’re questioning the liberty to phrase things their own way.
the latter also occurred to me: people on social media are extremely dumb, and its a very effective way of simply reducing every smart person down to their level,
e.g.
Libertarian: [complex explanation of minarchist view, which concedes existence of the state but wants to keep it strictly limited in many regards]
Dumbass: “LOL So Somalia then”
No, the widespread popularity of the “So you’re saying” (there are other formulations, but that’s the one Cathy Newman is remembered for) thing pre-dates that interview by a years.
its been a shorthand-m.o. for social-media argument for the last decade or so. but i think that interview certainly drove into people’s consciousness how intentionally-dishonest it can sometimes be.
It’s often intentionally dishonest, but only really effective when the opponent is silenced and cannot respond (see Bill O’Reilly, Hannity, etc…)
Interesting. It hadn’t really penetrated my awareness until Cathy Newman got famous for hammering away with it. That’s when I started using it as a joke.
There are at least two things someone could be doing when using “What you’re saying is…”:
1. Trying to rephrase what the other person was saying, as you said. This could be done well or poorly, in bad faith or not. It could be a strawman.
2. Drawing a purported implication of what the other person was saying. Here there isn’t an attempt to say the SAME THING in different words (or even strawman the particular claim of the opponent), but basically say “You believe X; X entails Y; so you’re also saying Y.” This may be an attempt at a reductio ad absurdum. It could be another attempt to strawman or something. The implication might not hold. There is a difference between believing X and believing anything implied by X.
I agree it’s easy to be strawmanning when doing this, but it CAN be a valid form of argument. If you know the opponent believes X and disbelieves Y, drawing an inference from X to Y will help refute the opponent.
This.
It is a rhetorical technique I use occasionally when attempting to illustrate for someone an inevitable conclusion of their belief. Not because I think they believe that thing but because I am trying to show them that the then is a necessary consequence of their belief that they have not though through.
Example;
Proggie: “I believe that increasing teachers pay will improve the quality of education”
Me: “So you’re saying teachers are on average either evil or incompetent”
Proggie: “what? I never said any such thing!”
Me: ” There are only 2 mechanisms by which raising teacher pay will improve educational outcomes. Either by attracting higher quality individuals with better skills to become teachers or if we assume that teachers are intentionally withholding education from the students because they are unhappy with their pay. If it is the first then teachers must on average be incompetent, if the second then they must be evil.”
Proggie: “Go to hell fascist”
That said I think the majority of people who use this technique, especially those who use it often might think they are using it the way I am above but they never bother to check of their “restatement” is logically following from what the other person said because more often then not they have no idea what the other person said but rather what they want to believe they said and it is this that they restate.
if you take your own example, and just skip the whole “So you’re saying” part, and instead jump to the “There are only 2 mechanisms by which”
… you actually make the exact same point, sans sneering.
iow, the only point of adding the “rephrasing” is to mock the person, when there’s actually little reason to; their statement, while maybe naive, obviously is well-intentioned.
If the idea is to provide people with ‘more insight into how incentives work’, spitting on their generous-but-simplistic views generally isn’t the ideal approach. Its also one of a handful of ‘common libertarian tics*’ which gives libertarianism a bad rep in certain circles.
*the other one i see a lot is libertarians, “turning every technical question of practical politics or technical-legal-issues into a philosophy debate”;
e.g.
person A: “lower taxes would be nice”
libertarian B: “taxation is theft”
person A: “well maybe, but still…”
libertarian B: “Wrong.”
Sorry, your response is not a valid form of argument. In fact, it’s a perfect example of reducing an issue to a “bone-stupid absolute.” Would you be surprised that a higher pay led to better work effort in the private sector? It can have the same effect in state-run schools. Sure, an argument can be made why it will be not as strong in the public sector but that argument must be more nuanced than yours.
Additionally, when done in good faith it allows you make sure you understand your opponent’s position — which means that you are actually responding to their arguments, rather than the voices in your head.
Yep. Its called “reflection.” If you ever want to make sure you understand what you are being told, its a good way to make sure you have all the important information.
Its best done when its investigative:
iow, when the simplification helps clarify a key distinction you make
the ‘good faith’ part tends to be whether its phrased as a question versus ‘a statement’.
It’s similar to reframing (Lakoff), they are specifically choosing a frame for their opponent that is repugnant to their followers
The majority of it in major media (and probably lesser media as as well) is done in bad faith.
The general intent is to take a competitive argument and reframe it as an anathema to the targeted audience. It’s not about careful consideration, it’s only about reassuring the sheep in the flock that they are in the correct flock, that they have chosen well.
Typically, this is done in a non-argumentative setting, where the critic is insulated from the original arguer. This may be complete isolation as in a commentary situation, or it may be in a captive setting, such as Hannity where the original arguer is shouted down or pelted with non sequitur questions such as “Do you love America, yes or no?”
In the Peterson case, it was refreshing to see an actual debate where the interviewer, although annoying as hell, actually had to deal with Peterson’s counter-arguments. On most US interview shows, that would not have happened.
I’m gonna go way out on a limb here and say: YES YOUR BOYFRIEND IS GAY.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/dear-deidre/6734928/boyfriend-gay-porn-anal-sex/
Rott(en)weilors. Not the brightest, very loyal/protective (not to the point of aggressive), moderate exercise
English Mastiff. Not the brightest, gentle, loyal/protective ( same as rott) , prefers couch to exercise
Kuvasz. very bright, loyal/protective (needs socializing. the more people and bigger area the better), moderate exercise
All great with kids they know. strange kids? mastiff JDGAF, rotts warm but wary at first, kuvasz depends on the socializing
Downsides
Rotts– gas everytime it eats something different than usual.
Mastiff– size, they’re not really active but still need room. also lifespan 10-12 iirc
Kuvasz– Hair on top of hair. I kept mine shaved (think white lab)
Speaking of Hungarian dogs, you should see the Komondor. My parents had a Komondor mix (it was mostly black instead of all white), but unfortunately the dog was very sick as a puppy, suffered brain damage as a result, and was literally the stupidest dog you’d ever meet. Very friendly, however, except for my 6’8″ BIL who never did anything to the dog.
Mollie mentioned above would try to chew on the Komondor’s ears and he wouldn’t swat her even though he could have hurt her badly had he wanted.
Considered a Kom, but was thinking that taking care of the dreads would be time intensive.. My kuvasz (brewser) basically tolerated kids, i’d make a show of holding the kid and introducing the two hoping brewser would figure part of the herd.
Great dog overall, just a bit leery of strangers.
So who is in the no pets club? Anyone? Am I alone here?
I haven’t had a dog or any other animal around since I was in high school.
I’m already responsible for two kids. Don’t really want to be responsible for any additional life forms, even if they are fun sometimes.
i’ll cop to that. If someone wants to let me walk their golden for 1/2 hr. everyday, I’ll be happy to oblige. But don’t want a pet underfoot 24/7.