So…
I just took my five hour I Can Haz Sekund Amendment Nao? class, and my typical “go fuck yourself” tendencies have been whipped up to a jiggly wiggly timey wimey ball of hate.
Now, any of the following things could be true:
- The people teaching the class didn’t know wtf they were talking about
- I might not have correctly understood what I was being taught, even though I got a perfect score on the test afterward
- The people teaching the class could have been trolling everyone. NY gun laws are completely beyond Poe, after all.
But assuming the rage-hormones haven’t broken my brain, let me share my loathing of this state’s government with you.
Stop! Don’t Touch!
If you don’t have a pistol license in NYS, you are not allowed to touch a pistol. Not own, not carry, not buy or sell, touch. Criminal offense if you do.
Catch Twenty-one-and-three-quarters
In order to get a license to touch a pistol, you must submit your paperwork for said license, including the receipt of the gun you have purchased.
Yes. You must first buy a gun without ever having touched it. That’s the way things work here. Now of course, just because you bought it doesn’t give you any of the normal benefits of what we would normally think “ownership” implies. Like, YOU CAN’T FUCKING TOUCH IT. Or, I dunno, take it home mebbe? You give the gun store some money, they give you a receipt (only). You submit the receipt with your license paperwork to the judge and maybe someday you might actually own something that is a little more solid than a slip of paper (which, much like the Constitution in NYS, can be used for wiping one’s ass).
Here Comes The Judge
Now the class-givers were very happy to be teaching my group of people, as we live in a county with a “good” judge, 2A-wise. Because you see, each county in NYS has a judge who determines whether or not people have their pistol licenses granted, and which version is granted.
Everything not permitted is forbidden
For you see, you’re not getting a license to carry a pistol; no no, that would be silly. You are getting a license to carry a pistol for a particular purpose only. And guess what? Self-defense is a separate listed category not granted by the other permitted reasons. My judge will pretty much automatically grant pistol licenses for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. This means I can carry a gun to a gun range, from a gun range to my house, to a hunting location and from a hunting location to my house. That’s it. I can also use it only for target shooting and hunting. So, if I am carrying it to a lawful destination and I am attacked by a crazed hobo, I may not use the pistol for self defense if I do not have a self-defense license. I can roundhouse kick his face off, I can crush his skull with a rock, I can blow his head off with a shotgun, but if I use my target and hunting license pistol to stop him then I am guilty of unlawful use of a firearm. I may not (may not, see below) be prosecuted for the dead hobo, but I will be prosecuted for the gun felony.
Ain’t nobody wants to see that *(euphemisms helpfully marked)
Now, open carry ist verboten in NYS. Which means, you may not expose your gun* in public. This includes printing it through a shirt or jacket — that’s a crime. Once you’re inside the (private) gun range, you can take it out* and begin using your gun.* This also applies to hunting on a piece of private land. But what about on public lands? No, you may not expose your gun*, you must keep it concealed at all times. Yes. That’s right. According to the law, you can use a properly licensed pistol for hunting as long as you don’t take it out of your range bag/holster/etc. Now the NYS game wardens apparently did not want to be the victim of accidental discharges so they have magnanimously agreed to not charge people so long as the hunters are a) dressed like hunters, b) are able to explain what kind of game they are hunting c) it is the season for said game and d) the pistol is appropriate for the type of game being hunted. Unless they just feel like charging you that day, of course.
Post Code Lottery, NYS Style
Now there is a pistol license that allows you to just (concealed) carry the damn thing, it’s called an “unrestricted” license. One of the reason why my judge is considered one of the good ones is that after having has a specific-purpose license for a year, I can then apply for an unrestricted license. There are more classes involved, and they’re not offered all that often, and there is a waiting list for them when they are offered, but if I get into one, my county’s judge has a habit of granting them. Albany county’s judge apparently never approves unrestricted licenses. Some of the counties where the Night’s Watch are located will grant the unrestricted license without having a year of the training wheel version. Judges change. There’s no guarantee that the next judge of Saratoga county will be any better than Albany.
It’s getting all Sondheim up in here
Remember way back when you “bought” a gun? Well, if all goes well, in a few months you might be able to take it home, once you have all your paperwork in. Well, “you” and “your” isn’t completely accurate. When you go to Ye Olde Sheriff’s office with your petition, you include some envelopes addressed to four NYS residents of good character who have known you for at least year. According to the trainers, this is not a rubber stamp thing. There will be background checks run on them, and the judge will determine whether the relationship is adequate for them to provide “proper” character references. The Westchester judge requires that one of these four must have known you for at least five years. So if you’ve just moved here from out of state, I hope your pistol collection wasn’t too expensive. Once the judge accepts your four, questionnaires are stuffed into the envelopes you provided (Huzzah for saving tax dollars!) and sent out. Until those four people return those questionnaires, your application will not be processed any further. If they are too late in returning them, the application is canceled. If the judge doesn’t like what they read, the application is denied. If the application is denied, you may not apply again until three years have passed since the denial. You’ll need to go out of state for all your pistol-touching* needs.
It gets better. Better, not good.
Once you do get a pistol license, you can now touch pistols.* This will help make your second purchase a better one, since you’ll have some idea of ergonomics. Once you purchase your next one, the gun store will give you another piece of paper. “What?” you may be asking. “Don’t I have a license to carry a pistol home now?” Hahahahahahano. Well, technically yes. You have a license to (concealed) carry A pistol. A single very specific pistol. Not “your” new one. This also works in reverse. Your pistol can only be carried by the licensee (i.e. you). You can’t lend out a gun. Another pistol-licensed individual can touch it* and they can use it for purposes for which their pistol license is valid, but they have to do so while under your direct supervision. The good part is that you can amend your pistol license to also include “your” new pistol. You won’t need any additional judge’s approvals or character references, just some signed and notarized forms. It still will take a few weeks to process.
You’ve fucking done it now (alternative title: Fuck Andrew Cuomo with red-hot pokers covered with syphilitic hornets1)
This has all been about pistols. Long guns are much less regulated… unless you get a pistol license. Because once you’ve deigned to ask to exercise your rights, the government now has carte blanche to fuck you over. There are vast [dammit, why can’t I find that scene from David Lynch’s Dune where Duncan Idaho says “vast numbers. VAST.”] numbers of ways that you can violate the terms of your pistol license. I believe they’re all crimes. Most of them are misdemeanors with no/little chance of jail time, but they are still crimes. Which means you immediately become a gun criminal. And gun criminals aren’t allowed to own any guns, even guns not requiring any special permission (even in NYS) to own. It’s kind of ingenious in a Kafka/Ayn Rand villain sort of way: make it so those people that want to own guns are more likely to violate rules. Make the rules carry little or no penalties to keep from generating sympathetic victims but then also use it to disarm them. Ta da! You’re disarming people who want guns without restricting the rights of those who don’t want to exercise those rights; as far as the gun-apathetic are concerned, no violation has taken place. Brilliant! Though not as brilliant as my idea of opening a hipster pop-up restaurant selling heated Red Baron frozen pizzas for $35.
And one last “Fuck You”
All his ranting has been concerning the laws of New York State. But the title just said “New York.” Why? Well, one of the laws pertaining to gaining a New York State Pistol License is… It is not valid in the five boroughs of NYC.
1 Hyperbolically speaking, of course.
“I hate New York”. You could have ended it right there.
That was fun.
That’s just insane.
And unconstitutional. Oh wait, the Nazgul have let it stand so totes ok.
And… among the additional conditions local jurisdictions are allowed to pile on, the one I happen to be saddled with wants to look at all your social media accounts. They don’t define ‘social media’ or anything of the like. I think if I told them “I don’t have a derpbook or twatter account” they’d claim perjury on my part and stamp ‘deny’.
Then there’s the lovely catch where the form says “use black ink” (possibly says blue), and if you used blue ink (possibly black) you “failed to follow instructions” and get denied.
It says black. I made sure to use black ink.
I couldn’t remember, I just recalled the absurdity of it.
At least Glibertarians is misanthropic media.
Technicalities FTW! Glibertarians isn’t social media, it’s anti-social media!*
*Even though many of the contributors here may be sociable people, the ideas promoted are considered antisocial in many sectors, so this is still technically correct.
Oooh Kay.. I could never move there. I only have one photo of myself on my derpbook account – it’s an old one of me standing in the back of my pick-up truck firing a pintle-mounted, belt-fed machinegun (registered NFA) into the Arizona desert. I doubt that would go down well with many NYS bureacrats.
Oh, re: the “possibly not getting prosecuted for the dead hobo,” there was a horrifying section of justifiable self defense in NYS (where “duty to retreat” and “proportionate responses” are things) but I forgot to write about that. I have since blotted it from my mind and replaced it with the shorthand “you will be prosecuted, hope for a sympathetic jury.”
Isn’t less of a hassle to just move?
Why should I change? They’re the ones that suck.
1. All the moving companies are mafia owned.
2. Moving yourself is a violation of health and safety regulations
/sarcasm (or am I?)
Though I did look at the logisticsI did check whether I needed to be a resident to work for the state.
I’m not a “Public Officer” so, no. I could live across the border and keep my job.
VT, while socialist, does have relatively decent gun laws IIRC.
This may be why the road from Albany to Bennington is an ill-paved piece of crap until you reach the border and it becomes nice and well maintained in VT.
That road was actually worse in the early 80s
But we’re a free country
This is why I don’t ask permission.
Christ. I was pissed that I had to take a course and pay $100 for my State Permission To Exercise A Constitutional Right.
So, yay Minne, I guess?
This is also why I consider gun apathy to be more dangerous than gun grabbing. People who don’t care by definition, don’t care until it affects them. If you have enough pro-gun people either a) lobbying or b) practicing civil disobedience and openly flouting the law, the less likely these kind of outrageous abuses are. People will only be ruled in this manner if they allow themselves to. If people, en masse (I’m talking tens or hundreds of thousands of people) stopped obeying these laws, the government would have to either quit enforcing them or relax them. It’s easy to lock up a few people here and there as an example, but the state would not be able to handle massive numbers of people disobeying unconstitutional mandates (see: illegal immigration).
I understand that 10s of thousands of people in new York are actively disobeying the abomination that is the new York SAFE act by not registering their assault weapons. I understand many county sheriffs have also refused to enforce the law.
Gun grabbers rub their hands with glee. More opportunity to fuck with gun owners on an as needed basis.
I know it. Draconian, yet selectively enforced laws may be the worst sort of tyranny. They allow the state to arbitrarily pick just about anybody and have them prosecuted.
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime,”
-laventri beria
So, what gun did you buy that you couldn’t touch?
I haven’t. My father has decided that he is no longer capable of safely keeping his pistol (a Ruger Standard) so he is transferring it to me. I’m very happy about that, since it’s the first pistol I fired. Once my new house is finished and I don’t have to worry quite so much about liquidity, I’ll be picking up one of the Beretta 92 variants.
I sold off my guns back when I was unemployed and never had a good place (i.e. solely owned and inhabited by me) to begin rebuilding a collection.
I live in a different country called “America”. Open carry is in the state Constitution, concealed carry permits are only required if you want to carry on a school campus or out of state and when I purchase a firearm, I drop my ccp on the counter, fill out the 4473, pay for the purchase and walk out the door. There are also 37 other states that honor my permit.
This place called “New York” sounds dark and evil. I’m glad I live in a free country.
“fill out the 4473”
This alone is unconstitutional.
I view it as an aptitude test.
I get the sentiment, but I can live with filling out the form. It takes longer to fill out the paperwork than getting the PICS approval (PA state). I can still do private transfer of long guns without paperwork. And 80% firearms are still an option if you really don’t want to fill out the form.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t attempt to change PA law for the better. Sadly PA gun owners are apathetic and weak.
4473 is federal.
I doubt PA will ever see constitutional carry, but, overall, progress has been made in PA over the years to improve our gun laws.
PICS and universal background checks for “firearms” have to go though. And being able to buy without a background check upon producing a LTCF would be nice.
Also the ability to actually transport a firearm without a LTCF so you can open carry it somewhere else would be nice.
Open carry is constitutional in PA, the license to carry is needed for conceal carry and certain types of transportation.
Frankly, given the shit show that gun laws are in New York, New Jersey, and Maryland, and the residents of those states that end up in PA thinking those laws are a good idea, holding the line is hard enough. I’d love to see the laws loosened, but I’m not going to complain too much about stasis.
I’m in the same boat, status quo is fine, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try and change it.
PA transportation requirements are both vague but also restrictive. So good luck transporting your open carry gun somewhere without that LTCF. Oh, and stay out of Philadelphia county if you want to OC, because you still need that LTCF to do that there.
I know. I moved to Philadelphia. Fortunately I got my license in Susquehanna county before I moved. Though it expires in a few months… really need to mail in the paperwork.
Shoot, I’m in Maryland and I think the New York laws are absolutely insane. Ours are horrible, but they’re nothing compared to that shit.
Here in a more free part of the country, no private sales of any gun require a background check.
Except NFA items I guess.
lots of private sellers in VA insist on “good guy” docs.
There are also 37 other states that honor my permit.
Because fuck the “full faith and credit” clause.
I took my class; filed the paper work at the local Sheriff’s office; and received my permit to carry about 10 days later. The class involved both touching and shooting pistols.
Totally a euphemism, has to be
1 9 1 1 oh baby oh baby oh baby
Remember, this is all about making sure black teenagers don’t have guns.
^^^So much this it hurts.
Outlaw them Saturday Night Specials. Otherwise, some negro might pull a gun on you in the alley. /1970s
We can’t have cheap guns. The poor might get them.
The poor don’t need to defend themselves anyway.
It’s not like they have anything worth stealing…
To be fair, “let them all kill each other” seems to be working swimmingly in Chicago.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/01/chicago-police-union-tells-offices-refuse-overtime-expected-labor-day-violence-spree/
Or cheap cars. It’s best we buy up and destroy all the beaters. Fucking poor people can use mass transit or walk. They have just been clogging up the roads anyway.
I have to ask: if you touch a gun outside the state of New York, is that a crime? Will the NY atty genl extradite you from Indiana for shooting a rental gun at a range?
And- my view of all this is warped, because Montana, where buying a gun is only slightly more complicated than buying a bottle of tequila, but if you (poor, sad New Yorker) walk up to the guy at the counter and say, “Excuse me. Could I have a look at that Kimber?” Is he going to demand to see your lah-saunce before he takes it out of the (show)case?
They are supposed to, yes. How strictly this is enforced depends (supposedly) on how strictly the local po-po are. The phrase the gun salesman is supposed to use is “you can look at it through the glass.”
Same thing they tell you in Red Square.
*golf clap*
If you could go back in time and assassinate either Marx or Lenin which one would it be?
Lenin. Marx was mostly hot air. Lenin turned loose some real demons
I disagree. Lenin would have been just another dictator without Marx. Marxism,on the other hand, has been poisoning human civilization worldwide for over a century.
von Bismarck
Wilson.
This kind of shit is why I’m very close to being a single issue voter on 2A. Respect for individual firearm ownership is about as pure a barometer as you can get for the State’s attitude toward individual liberty. A permissive (or, ideally, non-existent) regulatory scheme for firearm ownership is a sign that the State views you as an autonomous being capable of making decisions for your own life and recognizes your absolute right to self-ownership and self-defense. A hostile regulatory scheme (like this) indicates that the State sees you not as an individual citizen, but as a subject who represents a threat to its omnipotent power and, given the means, would resist with force its tyrannical diktat.
It blows my mind that a single individual (the judge) gets to arbitrarily place additional restrictions on the rights of the citizens of the country. Any judge that exercises that ability is
overtly a tyrant.remarkably well groomed.*apologizes for bringing unwelcome scrutiny to glibertarians.com*
change country to county there.
I could get past them.
I can’t get past that ‘four references’ bullshit. Where the hell is a curmudeongly introvert going to dig up four people who’ll A: pass muster as references, and B: be pro-gun enough to be used?
I believe I know the way. Well, at least for me. I would find four pro-gun, former Marines of my age group and get them to claim we were in the same unit back in the day.
I suppose that if you were creative you could go on-line and find four people on a gun chat site who would vouch for you.
In New Jersey, it’s not the judge who decides, it’s the local police chief. And the answer for a carry permit is always “no”. Unless you are politically connected.
This kind of shit is why I’m very close to being a single issue voter on 2A.
Yeah. The only thing I’ve contacted my (Repub) congresscritter about was his bullshit ‘common sense’ gun control support (For The Children).
Idiot.
I’d say that this is where I am. Every other liberty is meaningless if it can’t be defended with force.
I am a single-issue voter with regard to the 2A. There are other things I care about of course, but that’s weighted such that it overrides everything else. As has been said, if I’ve got the guns I can work on the other rights, but once those guns are taken from me it’s hard to get them back and there’s no reason for the government to respect me.
Single issue voter here. All the other stuff people squabble about means diddly to me when they start talking about restricting my means for self-defense. It’s like we are talking about ordering dessert and coffee when somebody asks is my wife can give them a BJ. Line has been crossed – intentions are obvious now.
This is why I don’t ask permission.
*polite applause*
And 80% firearms are still an option if you really don’t want to fill out the form.
Which reminds me- apparently the new governor of New Jersey wants to arrest everybody who advertises 80% receivers, because his subjects might see those ads and dare to contemplate ownership of an illegal scary ghost gun.
So 79% receivers it is then.
They are either receivers or they are not receivers. There is no definition of 80% only some vague ATF definition of how much work, skill and special tooling is needed to complete one.
Bingo. It’s not a receiver, it’s a piece of aluminum (or plastic). There’s no reliable, objective metric by which you can determine if an aluminum block is 80% of the way towards being a receiver or anything else.
“it’s a piece of aluminum (or plastic). ”
Some are stainless steel (drool)
I’ve lived in two states: NH & FL. While admittedly, FL has some laws of questionable constitutionality, I can’t complain too much about gun laws in either state.
Certainly not after reading Not Adahn’s piece.
Nice.
Danny Zuker
@DannyZuker
I mean how much more civil do these racist, traitorous, child stealing pig-fuckers expect us to be
Already deleted.
Really? I can see it. Honestly thought it was parody.
Poe’s law
One of these things…
Judging from that and a zillion other threads and comments sections I have seen in the last month or so the conversation is over. We are in the shit-flinging stage.
Yeah, I think it’s pretty much come to the point of being ready to get into a physical fight over your political beliefs. That’s sad, but there it is. I’m not going to turn the other cheek if I’m being threatened over my failure to proclaim my hate for Donald Trump loudly or quickly enough.
I don’t live in the US now but if/when I am back there – should any shipdit challenge my political leanings in such a way I would whip out my military ID and state : “All your political bullshit aside, I’m just happy to be serving under the best Goddamned secretary of defense who has held to post since I first enlisted in 1975”
Also, if there’s any justice in this world, Bloomberg will contract a slow-growing, but inoperable and untreatable stomach cancer. You know, the kind that causes intractable, soul-crushing pain and nausea such that you can’t eat or think straight and after a long time, preferably a year or more, you starve to death in absolute agony while cursing G-d for forcing you experience a level of pain and suffering you never thought possible.
That’s not asking too much is it?
He hasn’t been able to think straight for 60 years. I don’t want him lingering and having people talk about him for years on end – this quicker he goes the better off everyone else will be.
If I remember correctly, when I was in High school in upstate New York (Warren County) open carry was legal. When did they change that?
My google finger is sprained.
If you could go back in time and assassinate either Marx or Lenin which one would it be?
Lenin. I think Marx would have been pretty ineffectual at actually getting a communist system up and running.
As a NJ resident who works in NYC I have had similar discussions with a co-worker about are respective 2nd amendment hell holes.
Both of us don’t discuss our ownership very loudly in the workplace.
As a matter of fact I spent last weekend adding magazine blocks into the magazines for my Model 21.
Thank you Phil Murphy!
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2018/06/13/nj-tightens-firearms-standards-murphy-asserts-himself-gun-debate/698055002/
What a piece of shit, hiding behind his own armed security.
What do you want to bet that the guy on the left in the first picture is packing a kirpan?
I hadn’t thought of that.
Although my understanding is something tiny and dull meets the requirements.
The sole Sikh guy in my high school class always carried a sharp one. He’d use it to cut his mangoes at lunch, and the asshole principal and athletic director couldn’t do shit. It was great.
“I may not use the pistol for self defense if I do not have a self-defense license.”
What a fucking tragedy. This country has fallen a long way from those who founded it.
Mr. Beurocrat, may I pretty please defend myself.
“You may not. Call 911 and someone will be along later to photograph and collect your corpse.”
People look at me crazy when I say this is the main reason I want to leave NY. They don’t seem to think a moral wrong is a good enough reason to uproot where you’ve lived. In my opinion, it’s the best way to tell where the state is headed.
“it’s the best way to tell where the state is headed”
See my comment above. Treating “citizens” this way WRT a constitutional right shows they view you as tax cattle and subjects to be dominated, not human beings.
Treating “citizens” this way WRT a constitutional right shows they view you as tax cattle
Yeah, they want to institute a payroll tax to try to get around the new cap on state/local tax deductions.
I get that too.
As I’ve mentioned before, the number one pasttime in Ohio is talking about where you’re going to move when you “finally get out of Ohio”, and the destination is almost always California, NYC, or Chicago. I have many reasons for not wanting to move to those places, not least of all the gun laws. People think this is a silly reason to forego living in some (supposedly) wonderful places. They think guns are just a silly, unwholesome hobby.
It’s funny because many of the people who chide me for this are the same ones who have expressed disgust about the idea of living in any conservative-leaning state because of gay marriage or abortion, even though none of them are gay and most of them are no longer of child-bearing age.
Ohio let me down, but why would you go from there to any of those shitholes people are fleeing from in droves?
No idea. Ohio may not have a ton of trendy bars and nightclubs, but it’s a decent place if you like a low cost of living, generally libertarian-ish laws, practically non-existent crime, and almost never having to hunt for a parking spot.
I don’t dispute that the restaurants in Cali/Chicago/NYC are far superior, but I can make good food at home.
Those who trade liberty for a moment’s epicurean experience deserve neither.
EDIT: I got off topic there – what I meant to say in that post was that my family moved here from California when I was 3 because of the horrible crime, sky-high cost of living, and the daily ordeal of a 12-lane highway with traffic completely stopped for several miles.
Now they lecture me about what a wonderful place it was to live.
Slogan for my part of NYS should be “All the costs of New York City with none of the benefits”
I’ve heard that Ohio is just kind of…nice. Like a big comfy couch; not glamorous, not all that exciting, but welcoming, comfortable, and easy. Like it’s not much to visit but a really, really good place to live.
Glamour. Outside of Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati, most people outside the state will have no idea where you’re talking about. Hell, even some of the people from a different area of the state may have no idea where you’re talking about. Adding to that, the state heroes are generally people who left the state to make it big somewhere else. Then you have the unemployment issues, at least in the north east part of the state, for years it was factory jobs at steel mills or auto plants. When those closed down, a large number of jobs went away and would never return. Now, Cleveland is all about the hospitals and medicine.
On the entertainment scene, Cleveland (and I’m sure Columbus and Cincinnati as well), does have some higher tier restaurants, breweries, and bars. There’s been quite a few times where the girlfriend and I will be out, and overhear visitors at another table talking back and forth about how they didn’t know they could get good food this cheap in Cleveland.
If you’re ever willing to give us another shot up here, I can provide lists of places.
I’d move to Knox County Ohio in a heartbeat. Slow pace, mostly Amish, rolling hills, and most of the “english’ in the county are either family or friends of the family.
There are probably people who think Ohio is a shithole because it’s not leftie enough.
It’s not like there is a conservative state in the country that one can’t get gay married or have an abortion in.
Yea, but according to them, the most minor restriction on gay marriage or abortion – including the refusal of private individuals to celebrate or finance them – is tantamount to throwing gays in death camps and chaining women to the kitchen stove barefoot and preggers.
Meanwhile, the bullshit that Not Adahn has described for us in this article is hand-waved away as “reasonable restrictions that most gun owners support”.
Given the amount of bullshit it takes to legally obtain a pistol in new York, I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess there is a thriving black market there.
I can’t speak to that…
/knew who you’d need to talk to back in middle school.
Given the amount of bullshit it takes to legally obtain a pistol in new York, I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess there is a thriving black market there.
That’s just silly.
That is ridiculous.
Last time I bought a gun, I waited 20 mins for NICS. I paid in cash, which they seemed to appreciate. I went home with it.
#metoo
Last gun I bought I paid in cash to a guy I know, took possesion, and went home. No state involvement necessary. It’s best that way, really.
That’s how I’d love to buy guns, but damn it’s hard to find people that want to sell (I mean people that I know personally…not the internet). It seems like most people never sell once they buy.
Armslist is your friend
Thanks. I will check it out
That describes the last gun I sold, except I didn’t know the guy and asked for an AZ Driver’s License.
That’s how it used to be here. Until the latest round of common sense gun grabbing was passed.
“What with all the absolutely true and accurate Western journalism coming out of China these days I’m really surprised they missed out on the emerging trend of wife bins. Would have thought they’d be all over it”
https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1011514891323109376
For those looking for an affordable bullpup that, for my money, is every bit as reliable as a Tavor and has a better trigger, may I humbly suggest:
https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/rdb
Side note: I finished constructing my AK this weekend. I have yet to try it out, but will be doing so post-haste.
It does look nice. RDB or Shockwave? Decisions decisions….
Did you go with a 5.45 or a 7.62.
I have a couple 7.62 AKs, and they are fun. I’d like to have 5.45 one at some point though.
I like shooting my 5.45s, plus I have cases of 7N6. It is the first AK I built. (I have never bought a complete AR or AK) Light recoil and shreds old lawnmowers.
7.62. It filled a niche I don’t already have; whereas the 5.45 seemed a bit too similar to the 5.56.
I live in AZ, and have seen exactly one Kel-Tec in the wild.
Getting them to mate in captivity is nearly impossible.
I have both and like the feel of the Tavor a little better, but they are both nice bullpups.
I finished constructing my AK this weekend
Excellent.
Reading shit like this make me glad that Congress never managed to pass a federal concealed carry law.
Given time, whatever law they wrote would end up looking just like this.
^THIS
This reminds me, I need to renew my license to carry soon. I should get on that.
Depending on where you are, that probably won’t be a big deal. Make sure you spring for the fancy laminated one 😀
Oh just saw upthread. We don’t live far from each other then.
Also, your move makes no sense at all 😀
The renewal won’t be bad, I’ll mail it to Susquehanna county. You have to apply in your county of residence, but renewals can be sent to the original issuer even if you don’t live there anymore.
As for the move, they doubled my salary and halved my workload. Dealing with Philly is worth it.
You could have just moved slightly out of the city, still have a do-able commute, and have fewer issues with your constitutional rights. Of course, you’d end up paying higher local taxes in most areas.
I had a week to move, I didn’t have a lot of time to find a good place. Fortunately, my lease is up and I’ll be moving to Narbeth at the end of the month.
I’m dumb enough to move to Philly, but I’m bout dumb enough to get a mortgage here.
Wish I was smart enough to have avoided the mortgage. But at least we moved out of Philly proper before buying a house. Now it’s just me, I really want to go to somewhere like Alaska, get completely out of the orbit of the East Coast 😛
I’m probably end up leaving to go to some remote place where I can pretend humanity doesn’t exist some day, but I’ve got a few decades of making money left before I do.
This reminds me, Pennsylvania asks why you are applying for a license as well. It doesn’t determine anything, but they ask. If you check the box for hunting instead of self defense it has no bearing on what you use the gun for. When I applied for my first license I checked the “other” box, and wrote in “all lawful purposes”. The sheriff did a double take and chuckled when he went over the paperwork.
Most people check “self defense”, just because I think.
They do. You can check all the boxes, so it really doesn’t matter.
this is an unintentionally positive and uplifting article about how great the future will be with autonomous vehicles!
In Ann Arbor, Michigan, last week, 125 mostly white, mostly male, business-card-bearing attendees crowded into a brightly lit ballroom to consider “mobility.”
https://www.wired.com/story/autonomous-vehicles-might-drive-cities-to-financial-ruin/
The problem, as speaker Nico Larco, director of the Urbanism Next Center at the University of Oregon, explained, is that many cities balance their budgets using money brought in by cars: gas taxes, vehicle registration fees, traffic tickets, and billions of dollars in parking revenue. But driverless cars don’t need these things: Many will be electric, will never get a ticket, and can circle the block endlessly rather than park. Because these sources account for somewhere between 15 and 50 percent of city transportation revenue in America, as autonomous vehicles become more common, huge deficits are ahead.
oops… i’ll move this down there V
Reminds me I need to renew my Iowa LTC
Unfortunately it expired 3 weeks ago.
Granted its not super important since my home state LTC is accepted in most states
Er, I need to renew my Utah
Though it does only get me NV, WA, and DE
Yes, once I get my NYS, I’ll get a UT CC permit.
You don’t need to get a NYS permit to carry for Utah to issue a non-resident LTC
https://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firearm/reciprocity-with-other-states/
Of course, I suppose you mean a NYS possession permit
Lucky for me, Utah is not anal about these things. Was just able to renew online and no late fee, even though it had expired. Well, actually I guess I’ll find out in 2-4 weeks rather.
New York clearly does not want you to be able to defend yourself. I have nothing to do with crime.
Their gun control laws are about making people less of a threat to the state. If we do end up breaking up the country or having a civil war I guarantee you I will be on the other side of the line from New York.
Cant be said enough: No one wants to make you defenseless for your own good. Ever.
I think all gun control laws are passed in order to protect the state from it’s people. Especially the big one. That steaming pile of shit known as the NFA.
And the “loophole” gun grabbers are forever trying to close is private ownership of any firearm.
Today’s loophole is yesterday’s compromise
I think there are plenty of useful idiots that believe banning firearms will magically make everyone safer.
All evidence to the contrary.
Sssshhhhhh!! Remember, facts and science only matter when they support the Leftist position (or when they can be twisted and misrepresented to do so).
I have an article in the que on exactly this subject.
I never go down that road.
My rights aren’t based on the statistical performance of others. If guns cause a two zillion percent increase in suicide, I don’t give a fuck.
Speaking of ignoring the Constitution.
https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/
I got to the last line and laughed, I’m eating a red baron Frozen Pizza right now
I’m actually a fan of frozen pizza.
No, it’s not as good as home made or some restaurants, but damn is it cheap and quick.
For a similar price tag, I can throw together a better product using premade dough rounds and more ample, fresh toppings, with a compile/cook time of under 20 minutes. The trade offs to gains for frozen never seemed worth it.
Generally, and I say this as a N.Y. born pizza snob, even bad pizza isn’t actually that bad. If I have a choice, sure I want a good pizza, but if someone offers me a slice of Red Baron, yeah I’ll eat it.
My mother, who couldn’t cook much beyond hamburgers, bought a lot of frozen pizza for me. I ended up adding extra cheese and seasonings to Tony’s or Red Baron pizza.
Red Baron was the far better of the two – at least back then.
true, it’s a simple formula.
In terms of what I’ll eat, I’m not going to refuse things that I won’t dub ‘pizza’, just because their culinary taxonomy is suspect.
My memory of Red Baron was that it shared the overly thick crust that a lot of freezer pizzas have. I’m not sure why that design is prevalent in the freezer section.
My guess? Bread’s cheap. People feel like they’ve gotten their money’s worth because a slice of it weights two pounds, and the company’s costs are minimal because they’re selling pizza that’s like 85% dough.
but damn is it cheap and quick.
That’s what she said, but not to me.
P.s. I too am a fan of frozen pizza.
Frozen pizza!?!?!? I don’t know what to say to this. I thought you all at least had the culinary palate that exceeds that of a gas station attendant.
this is an unintentionally positive and uplifting article about how great the future will be with autonomous vehicles!
In Ann Arbor, Michigan, last week, 125 mostly white, mostly male, business-card-bearing attendees crowded into a brightly lit ballroom to consider “mobility.”
https://www.wired.com/story/autonomous-vehicles-might-drive-cities-to-financial-ruin/
The problem, as speaker Nico Larco, director of the Urbanism Next Center at the University of Oregon, explained, is that many cities balance their budgets using money brought in by cars: gas taxes, vehicle registration fees, traffic tickets, and billions of dollars in parking revenue. But driverless cars don’t need these things: Many will be electric, will never get a ticket, and can circle the block endlessly rather than park. Because these sources account for somewhere between 15 and 50 percent of city transportation revenue in America, as autonomous vehicles become more common, huge deficits are ahead.
I think they underestimate the cunning of politicians to sheer their tax sheep.
I am trying to come up with a joke about it but I am experiencing shear frustration.
Ewe ought to be ashamed of yourself.
We could argue whose pun sin was worse, but we’d end up butting heads.
Why do you people always flock to these ridiculous pun wars??
You guys are just baaaaad, do you think Swiss is woolly-headed enough to miss this?
Like lambs to the narrowed gaze slaughter.
“huge deficits are ahead.”
Because god knows we can’t possibly cut spending on all that regulatory infrastructure.
Challenge accepted!
/cops in every municipality
The robot was resisting.
Cars don’t get ticketed, the owner does.
/checkmate
I see you have a tail light out…
/smashes tail light with baton.
Thought of you on the way to work last week. Someone was pulled over with the search warrant that poops going around the car.
A couple months ago students were whining about yet another tuition hike at UO. Well, Nico Larco and his center are just one of the many reasons why.
“But driverless cars don’t need these things:”
Nico Larco is one of those rare creatures that is even stupider than a bureaucrat.
Annual driverless car registration: $6,000.95.
Excise tax on tires: $1,000.96 each.
Boarding tax (paid by passenger): $3.95 each time the door is opened.
Electric cars can’t circle endlessly. If they could, there would be a perpetual motion tax.
can circle the block endlessly rather than park
And you think that traffic is bad now?
“Fuck Andrew Cuomo with red-hot pokers covered with syphilitic hornets”
If I ever get a tattoo
None of that is even remotely constitutional.
Congress may all laws necessary and proper to promote the general welfare and regulate commerce.
Amendment 1 FYTW
Seems constitutional to me.
And yet SCOTUS refuses to take up cases challenging this shit. Maybe they will if Trump gets another nominee or two on.
OT: Sometimes crazy forces you to stick it in.
http://thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/montana-machete-assault-295730
Let me guess, ‘Rape’ has been legally redefined that it’s impossible for a woman to rape a man in that jurisdiction?
After surreptitiously calling 911, the man backed out of the bedroom and escaped his residence.
And then went down to the bar to tell everyone who’d listen.
“Fadder, I’d like to make a confession…”
Wow…that picture.
Run. Run fast.
Would – after a drink or three.
Perhaps that, and removing all of the sharp objects from the vicinity.
Yeah, I mean, take the machete out of the picture and I wouldn’t kick her out of bed for eatin’ crackers.
That’s pretty intense. I mean, I’ve had a chick swing a boxcutter at me, but damn.
Yes, we’ve all been to the back of a strip club.
OT: They really are the enemy of the American people.
https://news.grabien.com/story-montage-media-turning-trump-voters-public-enemy-no-1
So, am I to understand that there’s no difference between expelling people who have entered the country illegally and wholesale execution of both immigrants and native-born citizens?
You know who else made false equivalencies…
I am curious what our open borders people think about this display
Whatever it takes to get a billion+ people into the US.
https://openborders.info/blog/billion-immigrants-change-american-polity/
There is magic soul on this side of the border that makes people instantly rich.
Shove a billion rent-seekeing third worlders into the US and their well being will be the same third world shithole level they came from.
Exactly. Nathan has been dropped on his head a few times too many.
I’m not an open borders person, but I’m an easy- and pro-immigration guy. I also believe in the rule of law, not using hyperbole and deception to promote an agenda, and am deeply offended at the notion of our immigration policy being decided by people who are not citizens of this country.
Being against illegal immigration, gang bangers, and terrorists makes you a racist.
What has me shuddering with rage about this whole thing is the total conflation of legal and illegal immigration.
If you say that you’re all for immigration when it happens within the legal framework, people are just going to make a puppy face and give you a lecture about how wonderful it is when people from other countries can come here and make a better living.
It’s times like these that make me want to take a break from politics.
The trouble is that these mendacious fucks are not for immigration, not for the welfare of children, not for anything really aside from power. It is all about power. They will tell any lie, engage in any histrionics, do anything at all if it serves that end. Nothing they say can be taken at face value and we absolutely cannot turn our backs on them or give up our guns.
This will be the biggest blow to gun control efforts ever. They are showing their hand and it has a knife in it.
Oh, definitely. They want to facilitate as much illegal immigration as possible, get them hooked on welfare, then give them the right to vote.
Agreed. The problem is that we can’t accept everyone who wants to come to this “horrible” country. That means we’ll have to have laws and enforcement of those laws to keep this from happening. Unlike laws against things like robbery, the laws will be enforced against people who are quite sympathetic.
“we can’t accept everyone who wants to come to this “horrible” country”
The USA is the most racist, misogynistic, hateful, dangerous, human rights destroying place on Earth that people are climbing over one another to get into.
Don’t forget, it is also one of the top ten most dangerous places for those with the tits.
I know exactly where I stand with these people. I won’t run around advertising my views (that’s uncouth), however I’m not going to hide them either. I’m always armed and I fear not these blue-haired, pencil-necked failures. As far as doxxing and harassment, I already lost my last job because I refused to compromise my principles and I’d do it again in a heartbeat. It’s just a job and my character is not for sale.
I already lost my last job because I refused to compromise my principles and I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
Too many tittie pics on the cubicle walls?
You know it.
I am not sure how they think this is going to turn out but I am sure that they wont like it.
In terms of gun regulation, Massachusetts is much closer to NY than to the rest of the country. Still, it’s a bit better. Obviously you cannot buy a gun without a license but you can touch it. The firearms safety course I attended had a live fire component. The decision to grant a license is made by a police captain in each individual town, not by a judge. Outside of Boston, its inner suburbs and other large (by MA standards) towns people routinely receive unrestricted licenses to carry. The restrictions are similar to the ones in NY: hunting, practice shooting. I happen to live in a town where about 50% of issued licenses are unrestricted. Only two references are required instead of four. Lowell, MA requires you to produce two recommendation letters. It’s not required in other towns. I applied for my license last week; I had to write a letter explaining why I needed one. It takes about 2 months for an application to be processed. I don’t know yet if I’ll get a restricted or unrestricted license. Supposedly, the police captain can remove the restrictions after a year.
What they don’t tell you upfront is that one of them has to be from joe.
re: the Constitutional Due Process rights of illegal immigrants
this has been getting a lot of hot-takes lately, and i’ve scanned relevant legal analysis, and it seems an area rife with some very interesting Catch-22’s that SCOTUS has effectively punted on for a long time, and has done so again in most recent case (february)
the short of it, as far as i can tell
– “yes, the constitution provides for due process for *anyone on US soil*, legally or otherwise”
well that seems clear
BUT
– “What does “on US soil” mean?”; well, that depends on whether you’ve passed through an immigration process
so… follow me here:
if you’re an illegal alien and you commit some *non-immigration related crime* (i don’t know, say, you kill endangered species for fun on your hikes through the desert)… you must be afforded all the same due process considerations that a citizen would receive. *provided the US wants to prosecute you for that crime at all, of course.
If, on the other hand, the US decides it just wants to boot you the fuck out of the country sans a second glance by anyone except some immigration-court magistrate who processes 1000 border-hoppers an hour? adios, muchacho.
there are some other details which influence the matter – particularly “where you’re picked up, and how long you’ve been in the US”. IOW, the less time you’ve been in the US, and the closer you are to the border itself, the less “On US Soil” you’re basically treated as being, and the more deference is given to the “no due-process at all” immigration authority.
and, from what i can tell, this status-quo has basically been the case forever, with some periodic adjustments to “how wide is the border zone” and “how long can an alien be in the US before they need to be given different consideration”. IOW, the current state of affairs isn’t some new horror invented by trump (tho he is currently proposing MORE latitude be given to ICE/executive in making these determinations)
there’s more in that link above.
The main reason i think its worth clarifying this stuff is just because there’s no @#&*($ way the news media will make any effort to do so.
>>kill endangered species for fun on your hikes through the desert
THAT BALD EAGLE WAS COMING AT ME.
That shouldn’t even be a crime. If your species is so great, why can’t it keep itself alive.
Just picking up the feather will get you jail time.
…unless you are a Native American.
Yeah, the invisible smoke signal portion of the 14th Amendment.
I am a native american. A native born son of this country, citizen of no other.
i don’t know, say, you kill endangered species for fun on your hikes through the desert
Knocked over a Saguaro Cactus (protected by law in AZ).
I may or may not have any knowledge of how that can be done with the assistance of a firearm.
Pffft. Who doesn’t?
Why do you hate children Gilmore?
I think the thing that annoys me the most about immigration debate is the moralizing and virtue signaling. Which is true for pretty much every issue nowadays, but it’s particularly egregious in this issue.
Unless you are an open borders advocate at one end, or a “machine gun towers and crocodile filled moats” advocate at the other end, then you fall into the vast open ground of “Some immigration should be permitted and some should not be”. If you are one of the roughly 90% of the population that believes that some immigration should be permitted and other immigration should be prohibited, then you cannot have some kind of pontificating “THIS IS NOT WHO WE ARE!!!!” screech fest while you quote that poem like basing public policy on a fucking poem is a good idea. Immigration policy is, barring those two extremes, fundamentally a “the government is going to pick winners and losers” thing. The government is going to set quotas, make lists, maintain databases, and do all the other myriad things governments do. There’s going to be some kind of criteria, and there will be people who don’t meet that criteria.
Oh and the other thing is the conflation of residency with citizenship, which is of course deliberate on the part of the Left, because the real reason they are pro immigrant is because they need the votes. Trump should offer asylum to every Boer farmer and Venezuelan protester and watch them freak the fuck out.
“the real reason they are pro immigrant is because they need the votes”
This cannot be said often enough. If the hordes streaming in were more likely than not to vote Pub, the Dems would be screeching and wailing and rending their garments over how borders are essential to national security, job security for poor people, cultural preservation etc. etc.
I got into it over this a bit the other night. Trump is apparently a racist because the people coming over the border are all brown. Quote, “Do you think Trump voters are this concerned about Canadians coming over the border illegally? Gee, I wonder why not.” My reply, “Well, because Mexico and points south are shitholes that people desperately want to leave, whereas Canada is still, despite your boy Trudeau’s best efforts, a first-world nation with a functioning economy and employment. If skin tone was the issue then where’s all the rumpus over African or South Asian immigrants?”
Killing the welfare state solves most of the immigration problems. But nobody ever wants to talk about that.
^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS
No way. Before generous welfare every immigrant was doomed to failure.
Well, except for my great-grandparents and millions of others…
Not giving is taking.
“Trump should offer asylum to every Boer farmer and Venezuelan protester and watch them freak the fuck out.”
ME christians. Zoroastrians. Those persecuted in the Anglosphere and other parts of Europe for exercising their inalienable rights.
I could make a long list of people I would genuinely like to see here that would freak the left out.
Hell, offer asylum to Jews in France and Germany.
Absolutely
My god, if he offered asylum to Count Dankula, or even better, to Tommy Robinson, I would tattoo the man’s face on my chest. That would be the most epic troll of all time.
Yeah, it kind of surprises me that he hasn’t done this. Copts, Yazidis, Zoroastrians all have legitimate claims for refugee status, and undergo the persecution that SJWs claim (and desperately deserve).
Worth noting that Obama’s zeal for importing ME ‘refugees’ never included any significant number of those and Hillary’s promise to bring in 1M of them didn’t include them either.
we need more Assyrians in America.
*have seen a half-dozen stories in last few days basically cite the first part (e.g. “courts have repeatedly found that illegal aliens are afforded all due process considerations”), … while eliding over the second part, which is that, “*except in questions of immigration“-gigantic-caveat-bit, which is obviously the entire fucking point.
iow, no one disputes Jose deserves a jury trial if the US tries to prosecute him for *murder*;
but the only question being examined is whether there is any constitutional basis for unlimited appeals within the Immigration control process itself.
People seeking asylum in some cases are rejected and shown the door almost instantly; in other cases, they’re granted repeated appeals and can sometimes reside in a legal limbo in the US for years and years. This depends entirely on the court/magistrate a certain case might happen to fall in front of. sometimes described as “Refugee Roulette” (*which is probably inaccurate, since ‘refugee’ law is actually a different process entirely, but obv the alliterative phrase wins)
a second glance by anyone except some immigration-court magistrate who processes 1000 border-hoppers an hour
There’s your due process, right there. One of the reasons why the court’s gutting of privileges and immunities in favor of due process is such a weak reed.
The way the law is written, of course, there’s really not much room for extended due process. There are a very few, very easily confirmed facts – are you an American citizen? Do you have a valid visa? Have you filed a valid asylum request? That’s about it, I think. A negative answer to those, and off you go. Its not like we are picking through a mountain of testimony and evidence.
Kinda seems almost like the suspect is the one with the burden of proof.
Much of this hinges on *asylum claims*, fwiw.
as i’ve clarified before: there’s 3 categories –
1 – economic migrants
2 – asylum seekers
3 – refugees
the 1st group makes no appeal on basis of asylum. the second group does (while physically at the US border); the third makes their application via US embassy and can only be granted refugee status if they meet specific conditions/are coming from certain locations.
each of the 3 groups can also have very different outcomes in terms of eventual immigration applications. if you came to the US merely for “protection from persecution abroad” there are cases where asylum is granted but only until conditions at home change such that you can return. Its a complex mess, obviously, but the press does a piss poor job clarifying any of it.
You mean the press does a stellar job of muddying the waters.
This has come up with a guy who works for my uncle in law. He’s here either illegally or on an expired visa and has been for decades. In Maryland, mind you, so well away from the border. Operates mostly on cash, I believe, so he stays pretty well under the radar. His daughter is I want to say a sophomore in college, and pays very, very close attention to the “Dreamer” legislation. He did some work on our house.
I don’t know what his money situation is or why he hasn’t made the effort to get legal. He’s a tile guy and very good at it, and he seems to be living at a comfortably middle-class level, so I don’t think it would be out of his reach to get on the horn with an immigration lawyer and see what can be done to get right with the Lord. Funny thing is that I was talking to a guy who owns a restaurant near us who is himself a Mexican immigrant, albeit he came up after college and got into the financial services sector in NYC before coming down here to get into the restaurant biz. We were chatting about stuff and he mentioned how he hates Trump because of his stance on “immigration”–which I felt was a bit broad, but that’s fine–and then in the next breath he’s on about the scumbag welfare queens living in the projects nearby and how he won’t hire them because they’re lazy and play the race card all the time.
so I don’t think it would be out of his reach to get on the horn with an immigration lawyer and see what can be done to get right with the Lord.
It doesn’t work like this. Unless he marries a US citizen, there’s not much he can do to “legalize” his status. He is too old to be a dreamer. There’s no amnesty in place.
Yep, his best bet is continue to fly under the radar and wait for something like the 86 amnesty.
last i checked, the majority of ‘illegals’ fall in this category.
the people who come across the border are like a small-fraction of people who come in annually w/ legal visas, and simply overstay.
which is why a wall is mostly for show, and something being done mainly because its less-complex than actually reforming the entire system
This includes printing it through a shirt or jacket — that’s a
crimehumblebrag*.Shit, I thought IL was bad (FOID) of course when I lived there, CC was a pipe dream.
Now, to help me forget nys crapitude.
a couple o these
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/19247/49474/