I’ve had both of my hips replaced with titanium implants. My friends and I joke about being a cyborg and being part-Terminator. Laughter is indeed medicine. I had my right leg done in the States with private insurance and the left done in Korea, which has universal health care. This is my tale.
I was a few months away from being 25 when I first noticed a problem. I had been in the States visiting family and back flew to Korea to start my new contract. Literally the day that I arrived I started to feel a tinge of pain when I put weight on it. I assumed it was the stress of travel and schlepping all of my luggage around.
I used to run 3-5 miles a day and naturally assumed it was related to that. Everyone who runs is used to little tweaks and pains. My limp increased and I just dealt with it. People kept telling me to go to the hospital. I figured it would go away and rebuffed their advice. After six months of existential pain with every step, I figured it was time to see the doc.
It only took a simple X-Ray. The doc sat me down and showed me the film. My femoral head had a noticeable dark spot on it. He told me that I needed to have my hip replaced. With cool composure I asked about the details. Turns out that the blood vessels in my femur had closed off and the bone wasn’t getting oxygen. Necrosis, he said. The bone had literally died. The pain I felt was my body weight slowly crushing the bone into itself.
He says the left hip has the same problem but it’s not as advanced.
Most people assume that I had been hit by a car when I tell them about my hips. I tell them the docs told me it was idiopathic. This may be true, but I think I have an idea. But that theory’s for me.
Cut and dry, it simply had to be replaced. It wouldn’t ever go away, and eventually would catastrophically shatter.
I got into a cab and tried to digest this. I called into work to get the day off. It also so happened that that was the day my parents were arriving to visit me. I fought off my emotions in the taxi. As soon I shut more apartment door I bawled my eyes out. I’ve never cried so hard. I collected myself and then collected my parents outside. It was pouring with rain, which felt fitting.
We went to Seoul with my ex that weekend. I walked with them for miles that day, unable to hide my limp that I hadn’t told them about. They wanted to see a palace. I bowed out saying that I was tired and had already seen it. Truth was the idea of walking over gravel for a few hours was too exhausting to think about. We later got pizza. While I was in the bathroom my parents asked the ex what was wrong. To her credit she didn’t say, per my wishes.
I flew back to the States to get the surgery done about a month later. I had three hour-plus one-on-one visits with the doc. He explained everything that was going to happen and what to expect. Being a young patient, he took a special interest in me. “This doesn’t happen to people as young as you,” he said. Not words you want to hear.
I had to go to group meetings to get prepared for the operation and what I need to do afterwards and what I won’t be able to do. After the surgery I wasn’t supposed to bend my hip past 90 degrees. It might dislocate, they said. I was easily 30 years younger than everyone else present.
Time for surgery. I was the first of the day and arrived early. I was given Valium and the nurses were very sweet. I was put under and don’t remember anything for the first 24 hours or so. I awoke in a spacious, private room. My bed was a lot of fun. I was pumped up with pain killers and felt incredibly stiff but no pain to speak of. I had a menu and could call at any time of day and get whatever food that I wanted. Having good food and calories were very important and comforting. This turned out to be very different than Korea.
Perhaps I should explain the surgery. First they had to sever three thigh/ass muscles. Then they dislocate your hip. Then they saw about 6 inches of it off. They shove the implant down through the bone marrow and pop the new head into one’s pelvis. Then they screw it in place through the bone.
Again, I don’t remember the first 24 hours. But I stayed at the hospital for three days and two nights. I don’t remember it being too unpleasant, other than how unpleasant being stuck in a hospital bed inherently is.
I was released home and was given a boatload of pain pills. I was encouraged to get out and about as soon as possible. The abject swelling and stiffness is hard to explain. But I dutifully would go out and walk 100 feet and back to the house. When going on stairs, the rule is: Good Leg up first; Bad Leg down first. Also—always use the cane on the opposite leg. Movies get that wrong so frequently. I notice it constantly now, just like I’ve always noticed when someone is left-handed.
I took my recovery very seriously. Eventually I got down to the end of the street. Then I went a block further. Soon enough I got to the nearby forest and tested myself walking over uneven trails. There was a real sense of accomplishment.
After a month the pain was still there but certainly manageable. The stretches I had to do were a terrifying new flavor of pain. It’s hard to explain. Your entire body is saying that this movement is absolutely unacceptable. It was a cold, desperate pain. It felt like something was going to rip. That tends to dampen your enthusiasm to your new regime. I probably didn’t do them enough. It’s still very difficult to get my right leg over my left knee into Newspaper-Reading stance.
I would say after six months my walking life was pretty much back to normal. No more running, though. No more jumping. They don’t know how long these will last on me because I’m not the average patient. But because I was young and fit they were encouraging. But they had no real answer. That I will almost definitely have to have another operation—one that I’m told is much, much worse– in x years is something that I try not to think about. It brings about feelings that I prefer to push out, given I have no control over them, I get sad when I make the mistake of dwelling on it.
I flew back to Korea. My life went about pretty normally for six months or so. My ex would help me with my grueling stretches. And then, in 2014, I started to feel the same pain in my left leg.
That was a fun day.
I decided to do the second surgery in Korea. My retired mother flew out to be with me. The surgeon spoke English but I only talked to him for maybe a minute at time. If I spent 5 minutes total talking to him I would be shocked. But I did have a Guardian Angel as a nurse.
And her name was….well I forget, sadly. She had studied in San Francisco and was my English aide throughout. She was the only competent person in the building. Every room had soap dispensers. She was literally the only one who used them. The only one. I’ll get back to that.
I paid extra for a private room, because I couldn’t handle that shit. Everyone else was in rooms with 6-8 patients. Cloth curtains, noxious smells and Korean food that even the locals didn’t eat. I was prepped for the op and I was wheeled down to the theater.
I got gassed and I went under.
I woke up sometime later, groggy and unfocused. They started to wheel me out. The anesthetic wore off shockingly fast. As soon as I was wheeled out into the expansive main floor of the hospital, all of the pain hit my acutely aware brain.
Torn muscles. Dislocated hip. Sawn off bone. Titanium thrust into my femur. Screwed back in.
I am screaming in the hospital. I’m talking taking-a-Minie-ball-to-the-leg-at-Antietam screaming. I couldn’t control it. Couldn’t hear myself. Couldn’t think. I was wheeled in front of patients, women, children….and my mother.
My mother had to hear her youngest scream like that. I’ve never talked to her about that moment and I never will. I can never forgive them for that. Never. Ever.
We got into the elevator. Again, my mother present. The echoes of pain must’ve been haunting in that steel box. I’m glad I don’t really remember it. We got to my room. Instead of picking me up by the sheet I’m on, they grabbed me limb-by-limb and flop me into the bed.
Then, and only then, did they inject me with more anesthetic. Let that incompetence sink it. Infuriates me to this day. Again, never, ever can I forgive.
That sadly, was only the beginning of my troubles. I had tons of drainage tubes attached to the bed. All in all I spent 10 days tied to that fucking bed. Shackled. They had people come a few times a day to turn me over and hit my back to prevent bedsores, which I eventually did develop, but thankfully they didn’t become a problem. Hilariously, those back-slappers were the only people that wore gloves, even when dealing with my stapled wounds and drainage tubes. I’ll come back to that, as well.
My mother was a saint. A Subway just opened up in Daejeon and it was really busy. I wanted actual food and she would wait in line for an hour to bring some comfort to her youngest. I liked getting her out of there. I didn’t like being so helpless and needing everything done for me. My friends wanted to visit and I told them no. I would visit them when I got out. I didn’t want to be seen like that.
My humanity was spiraling.
One thing made me happy. I would trudge along until 6pm. That was always the goal. Deal with the shit and you can make it to six. That’s when the Korean baseball games would come on. I don’t care about the teams here—I’d flip through channels 44-48 trying to find the best game. Whatever game was the most interesting, I would watch. For those 4 hours I knew I could kind of escape myself. And at 10:00 or 10:30 when the games ended, I had to deal with reality again. Cold, painful, lonely nights.
I didn’t take a shit for 6 days. They started to get nervous and would give me laxatives every meal. Still, nothing. Sometimes I would think that I had a shipment to deliver and I’d get the bedpan. My mother would leave and I would painfully struggle to pick myself up enough to get it under me. Usually I had Top Gear on to distract me from the desperation. I had two days of false alarms. When I finally did take a shit it was hands-down the foulest thing my body has ever produced. Had the consistency of daub. The Mississippi Indians could’ve built a duplex with that load.
I had to give that vitriolically foul deposit to my mother to deal with. Again, a Saint.
A week after the op came Sunday, Bloody Sunday.
Everyday I was wheeled out into the lobby to get my bandages dressed. But on this Day of the Lord, the doctors were off. Interns and graduate students only. They were going to remove my drainage tube. I was on my side, lying away from the two kids taking it out. I felt a pinch. They had just got back from their smoke break. Reeking of Marlboro, they fiddled around this inch-long incision in my lower ass. They were not wearing gloves.
Then, all of a sudden, a lovely surprise. It turns out that that pinch I felt had nicked an artery. So there I am, lying on a hospital bed, in relative public, with blood spurting out of my ass with every heartbeat.
I actually had some fun with this one. It didn’t hurt and I wasn’t really concerned. They called the doc and were frantically asking what to do. They applied pressure. Again. Their bare hands smoke-infused. Pressure was applied for about 5 minutes. They pulled away and breathed a sigh.
To my great pleasure, the spurting returned!
I was legitimately laughing at this point in time. This felt like a bit of my revenge. I wasn’t in pain and I was gleefully inconveniencing others for a change. Their white coats were splattered with blood. Felt like justice. More pressure was applied. Eventually the bleeding stopped. I’m glad my mom wasn’t there for that one. She wouldn’t have approved of my Grinch-like grin.
After ten days of being locked to the bed (I was still attached when they wheeled me out to get new bandages), they finally let me out and into a wheelchair. To be able to read in the sun was a revelation. I got some upper body exercise speed-wheeling myself around the hospital. And I hatched a plan. I got a hold of some crutches. “Don’t walk” they said. Well, this wasn’t my first rodeo and I knew what I could handle. At night I would get down to the main entrance and crutch-walk my way out. This was a great time to pull the Foreigner Card. No one ever said anything to me.
I went across the street to the 7-11, bought smokes and booze. Smoked a celebratory cig worthy of The Great Escape and went back in. I got loaded in my room and had fun for the first time in a very long while. I repeated this every night for the next four days. The satisfaction I got by taking back my agency was worth everything. Also, I had been dramatically weaned off the pain killers by this point in time. I felt like I was keeping up the tradition of getting drunk before/after battlefront surgery. Shit works, yo.
After a total of two weeks I was allowed to leave that infernal place.
My surgery in America came on insurance and cost $80,000. With our fantastic insurance (granted my mom was a teacher with a very strong union), our family was charged $674. I was in the hospital for 3 days and was pampered and taken care of. I was given dignity. I was given the tools I needed to recuperate on my own afterwards.
In Korea the surgery cost me $6000. No idea what it actually cost to do. I was chained to a bed, humiliated, traumatized, was treated by monstrously inept staff (save, of course, for my Guardian Angel), and was given no pain killers to help with my recovery once I left the hospital. It was absolutely the worst fourteen days of my life.
Now, to compare the two systems in terms of policy. The actual price tag in the States would legitimately be out-of-reach for the vast majority of people. Insurance mitigated that, however. I actually benefited from Obamacare by still being on my parents’ insurance. That’s why I did it there to begin with. My mom still doesn’t understand how I can be opposed to a program that actively helped me. Because it’s my mother, and she’s a Saint, I don’t follow up with an answer.
In Korea, $6000 is attainable for most people, even if they have to take out a loan. The quality was absolutely atrocious, and it was very easy to see how they cut on the amenities in order to focus costs on actual medicine. That’s probably a good idea with their budget, but I learned that a lot of healing and getting better is being comfortable. Having good food, being in a clean place, not being in pain, having helpful nurses and staff, fundamentally helps you recover. It relieves your stress, the stress of your family, and the stress you feel from forcing your family to feel that stress to begin with.
I’m not going to make a policy argument of the pitfalls and perks of these two systems. The purpose of this piece isn’t really for myself to get into the politics of everything. My point was to show what the same serious operation is like in one system versus another. They both have their pros and cons and I benefited from both of them in my own way. I’ll be plain and say that the best solution would be to have an actual market, which we all know doesn’t exist when it comes to health care. If you can afford the filet mignon and lobster, go for it if that’s what you’re in the mood for. If a buck McDouble is going to sate you, then that should be available for you as well. You should always have the option to choose.
***** For what it’s worth, the second surgery was in 2014 and I felt back to relative-normal six months later. I have been walking pain-free ever since, after having dealt with existential pain every step for over three years. I sometimes catch myself getting bitter about the things I can no longer do and what I’m facing in the future. But then I try to focus on how lovely it is not to deal with that pain anymore, and how modern technology saved me from an affliction that certainly would’ve left me direly crippled or dead a hundred years ago.
Here’s to hoping further innovation and a bit of luck can help me keep walking for decades to come. Please, Washington, don’t get in the way.
Fingers crossed for you, buddy.
Thanks for sharing this story with us. It’s very insightful!
Now I’m depressed.
Maybe I should read articles.
*shouldn’t.
dammit, that inverted the entire meaning of the statement.
Way too young to have to deal with that kind of problem, Well done Sir!
Ugh, having been thru a shattered tib/fib accident, I can appreciate some of this…….. some.
I’m glad you’re mobile and relatively pain-free now. I remember the six months of near constant pain in my leg pretty well. But I didn’t have three major muscles severed or an artery nicked by incompetents.
I understand the concern about the future. Just remember that the options for treatment get better every day. I’m counting on that for my knee and ankle when that time comes.
Dude—Fist Bump to another who has felt that shit.
You know how it is. *Upward nod of approval and respect*
I’ll crawl through glass on my elbows and knees just to make it by myself (I gotta know that I can do it if there isn’t a person to help me).
Onwards and upwards. Always.
Wow. So sorry you had to go through all this, Evan. Just horrific.
I’m not sure I’d be able to write about something like this had I experienced it. Thank you!
“cut on the amenities in order to focus costs on actual medicine”
Based on your description, it sounds like they dropped the ball on the actual medicine too. If nobody was using soap or taking basic hygiene steps and they were that incompetent, you should consider yourself extremely lucky you didn’t get a major, life-threatening infection. It’s also worse than inconvenient that they didn’t give you pain meds, that’s negligence bordering on criminal. Your comparison to Civil War battlefield surgery is appropriate; lack of hygiene or pain management are two of the biggest things missing that we should (theoretically) have today.
Hygene isn’t even expensive, especially compared to the costs of treating hospital-borne infections in patients.
As I reread this and neglected to edit it further…
One of the big things that came to my mind was getting wheeled out in Korea.
There….was no Evan. No thought. No process. No Self. Nothing. Just screams and shrieks. I don’t know how to explain a thing that I wasn’t able to think about. It was absolutely barbaric.
When I 10 I had surgery for a badly broken arm. I woke up at one point and yelled because it hurt like hell. I remember one the docs looks over, did something with my IV and I was gone again until my parents woke my up in the recovery room.
Tossing around a patient in that much pain is just incompetence and bad medicine.
One of my daughters did a few stints in hospitals in Utah and in Chicago within the last year. There were a few bad nurses here and there, but mostly both hospitals were comfortable and clean. They have a new-ish initiative where every employee must use hand sanitizer every time they enter or leave a patient’s room. That has to be a big help in preventing infections. At both hospitals, they tried to keep her occupied as much as possible. They had an activity director who would take her down to an activity room, or bring things up for her to do. In Chicago they had visiting musicians, comedians, and magicians almost every day. There were great amenities for family members who stayed overnight.
That’s why I reject the idea that we have a “health care crisis” in our country. Our health care system is great. The “crisis”, if there is one, is in payment/insurance.
Yikes.
Reading this makes my arsehole involuntarily pucker.
Before I arrived at the lovely Lower Rainland™, I knew a gent in Calgary, in his early 70s, who was a lifelong dance aficianado. He had a hip replacement, and to my astonishment, was back on the dance floor about five weeks later. I just couldn’t fathom it, but I guess everyone’s wired differently and heals at a different rate. When I had my right knee done, it was almost four months before I could get rid of the damn cane. (And you’re right, the movies always seem to get the cane usage wrong.)
Thanks for writing this.
Christ. Everything I’ve read is that knees are way worse than hips.
Back on the dance floor in 5 weeks?!
I literally don’t believe it. (They also say that Bo Jackson popped his hip back into place on the field…and docs were like “No, that’s…literally not possible for a human to do. But, hey. Bo gonna Bo.)
And thanks, man.
The didn’t believe he was strong enough to dislocate it in the first place – just trying to run through a tackle. It’s like they hadn’t glanced up from the sidelines to watch the guy ever.
Depends on technique (anterior approach vs lateral), pain management and rehab. I used to work at an outpatient surgery center for total knee replacement. People would hobble out the same day. Limited walking the next. Spinal anesthetic with sedation and non-opioid based pain medication.
How sedated?
2 mg versed upfront, Propofol drip, usually around 200 mcg/kg/min for actual surgery. IV Tylenol, Robaxin for non-opioid pain control, surgeon injects local. Toradol if bleeding was minimal.
Good. I was worried that patients were watching their own knees being replaced.
They could, but some people don’t enjoy nightmare fuel as much as I do.
Versed and propofol are miracle drugs.
When Hugh Downs had his knee replaced in 1996, he had the doctors record it for a 20/20 segment. (Downs was only under local anesthesia.)
Jesus F_ckin Christ.
Thanks for sharing this with us, man. That was intense.
Here is Jordan Peterson’s daughter, sharing hip surgery photos, and before and after of her dietary change. SFW, and she’s super cute, too.
http://mikhailapeterson.com/2018/05/11/before-and-after/
Carbohydrates are poison.
Thanks.
Um….wood.
And I have such a great In!
Here she is telling her story.
http://mindpump.libsyn.com/725-mikhaila-petersons-personal-account-of-treating-debilitating-disease-through-diet
I have a big scar on my forearm from melanoma surgery. My wife keeps suggesting different creams to make the scar fade. I keep asking her “why would I want it to fade away?” It would ruin my story about killing a Russian Spetsnaz Operator in a knife fight.
I have a huge scar on my back from open heart surgery when I was 18 months old. Wouldn’t get rid of it if I could; I have told a few colorful stories about how I got it. I met an Eagle Scout a few years ago who barely survived being born prematurely and had any number of surgeries and the scars to prove it. I told him “Don’t worry. The ladies love the scars.”
Very good write up Evan. I am always amazed at the cost of healthcare, I gather that they don’t always get what they charge but 80k for three days is staggering to me.
I think they charge like that so they can always ensure the maximum dispersal from the insurance company. And then the insurance company gets to brag about how it “negotiated” a better price from the hospital. A twisted and symbiotic relationship.
Yeah, I figure it’s something like that when I broke my ankle the “bill” ran to ~$1,500.00/hr from the time I limped into the emergency room till I crutched out 2 days later. I got on a payment plan and paid about 8k over two years. I can see $1500 during the 3 hours of surgery or the 3 or so hours of prep and testing, but for the other 40 when I was simply lying in bed watching TVland not so much.
I wonder (not really) why they don’t do more semi-outpatient/hospice recovery options. Except for ICU patients, it would seem that you could run a decent recovery ward much like a 3 star hotel. The costs would be higher than a hotel, but I bet you could get the costs to $600/day instead of per hour.
I’m guessing the 80K for paying patients breaks down to “cover compliance costs”, “cover no-pay ER patients”, “have something to ‘discount’ in negotiations with carriers”, and “medical care provided”.
Hospitals are hugely capital intensive and have large overhead costs, meaning they have gigantic fixed costs. A good fraction of the overhead is compliance-driven and payment-driven; we have rooms full of people who do nothing but code bills, audit bills, adjust bills, etc. because the payors, government and private, all have huge bureaucracies of their own that we meet every day on the field of battle to engage in trench warfare over payment.
Hospitals are doing well if they can break even on Medicare. Medicaid usually pays between 20 – 35%, maybe of our cost for taking care of their patients. And there’s always the no-pay patients, and now the patients who can’t cover their deductibles, which under OCare went from @ $1,000 a year to something more like $5,000 a year, plus co-pays that can sometimes hit 20%. So, yes, the private insurance companies are subsidizing the shit out of the rest of the system. “List” prices are a bad joke left over from the days when hospitals were essentially utilities that sent in their rate sheets every year for approval (Certificate of Need laws are another vestige of this system).
Surgery Center of Oklahoma prices it at $15,499. There is a ton of fluff in that $80k.
^Those guys are heroes.
Yep.
The bill stated that the titanium alone was $11k.
I have a Titanium plate in my neck, about 2″ x 13/4″ ,
Cost,1550$
inch and 3/4
Dr. Groovus used to work there or have some association with them. As I recall, he did not have nice things to say, and did not think their model was something that could be spread widely.
…did not think their model was something that could be spread widely.
Out of curiosity, why? My insurance has some absurd deductible that would make it more cost effective for me to just write a check for some procedures. It would be nice to have more options.
This goes back a few years, but I think it had to do with a bunch of sweetheart deals with suppliers and others that were basically one-offs.
There is a ton of fluff in that $80k.
Unlikely, actually. See my other comment about hospital fixed costs. Hips and knees are a higher margin service line than many (we clear around $10K for a hip, compared to our marginal cost), but overall hospital margins are typically sub-5%, with a very few getting above 10%. The margin on the hip is what pays for service lines that don’t even cover their own marginal costs (many medical patients are losers for hospitals, even on marginal cost).
Knees are migrating to outpatient/ambulatory day surgery, slowly. There is a very high degree of skepticism about doing hips as day surgery, in part because doing a hip replacement right requires some pretty intensive rehab that is really inpatient rehab, for at least a few days.
Guh?
Everything I heard was that knees are so much harder. They require moving parts more extensive than a hip.
They have to bend and flex where a hip just has to rotate forward and back, pretty statically.
The reason the hip is a ball joint is because the motions required are anything but just back and forth. The knee is a hinge joint and just moves front-back. The part I can’t speak to is the soft tissues.
I think it has to do with the degree of trauma to the body being worse with hip replacements than knee replacements. Having watched both kinds of surgery being done, the actual operation is much more straightforward with a knee.
Hips actually have to rotate not just forward and back (bending over or straightening up), but also outside to inside (spreading or closing your legs), as well as accommodating turning your hips (like when you swing a golf club or baseball bat). Many degenerative knee injuries can be traced to loss of mobility in the hips, putting loads on the knee that its not designed for.
Right. If you’ve ever built or run some big, you lived overhead structures that remain huge after years of redesign and automation.
I lose points around here for arguing that the efficiencies of deregulation are not necessarily great; I agree with the ideal, but it’s not a hill I want to die on. Maybe eliminating a regulation means there is no form to mail in every month, but clean rooms are still expensive, good talent isn’t cheap, specialty parts like Ti hips don’t grow on trees, and the oil still must be changed.
And doesn’t big pharma get a lot of slack around here? Hips, drugs….mostly the same racket. We want OTC Percocet but we don’t much begrudge how development costs are amortized and recovered.
I lose points around here for arguing that the efficiencies of deregulation are not necessarily great;
Its really hard to say. If hospitals were much less regulated, I can think of maybe 5 positions we could eliminate more or less directly out of a total workforce of over 3,000, . A lot more of our bureaucrats are engaged in second-order “compliance” with payors, who mostly ape Medicare.
I think the benefits of deregulation are second and third order benefits, coming mostly from more flexibility to innovate or experiment. Exactly how those would reduce costs/improve outcomes is hard to envision. Hospital people are well into their second generation of being heavily regulated by Medicare, with states and other payors piling on; we mostly can’t even imagine what life would be like without it.
I made this same point during the residence contracting articles: a big part of what I do (industrial design) agrees with code, but I’d do most of it anyway because i dont need things to fall down pr explode.
I guess that’s why the ‘posted prices’ thing appeals to me so much. Having spent a spectacular amount of (my own) money on insurance (not healthcare), I would have been far, far, far better off just paying cash when I needed something, backstopped with a catastrophic plan to protect assets. Until recently it was damn near impossible.
Just had a kid a couple months back
The estimate we got a few months before delivery was roughly 15000 or so for 3 days in the hospital plus prenatal visits but not tests (ultrasound, bloodwork etc)
This was for plain old ordinary, no meds delivery.
Arrived at 8AM, baby at about 2PM, and then two more days for good measure.
I don’t handle the stuff, so I don’t know what the final ‘real’ billed amount was. All told I think our final out of pocket will be about 5000 on a high deductible plan.
Side note: If you have an AGI that puts you in the 22% bracket you really ought to do the math on an HDCP to see if it makes sense for you. If you put the max amount int, the HSA can reduce your Fed tax bill a good 1500 to 1700 if your AGI is high enough. You might find that you save yourself some dough, and get to send less money to Uncle Stupid to bomb brown people with.
Even with using a HDHC and having such a large bill we are still going to pay less out of pocket for premiums + delivery + other health stuff this year than we would have paid had we chose to use a more conventional form of insurance. Given the rather higher than normal bill, the difference this year won’t be a lot, but in a normal year, the HDCP saves us a boatload.
Please, Washington, don’t get in the way.
As Great Britain reminds us periodically, universal healthcare is about exerting state power over their citizenry, not about providing better healthcare options at more affordable prices.
The mission of the National Health Service is not to deliver health care. It is a “public health” organization that views Great Britain as a giant petri dish, full of subjects for it to experiment on, with the “utilitarian” goal of maximizing certain arbitrary metrics for the lowest cost. If you want to see the inherent flaws in utilitarianism, look at the NHS. Plus, as we are periodically reminded, patient consent/choice/agency is a foreign concept to them. You are there to get the treatment ordered by your doctor, period, full stop, whether you like it or not. I have had to essentially retrain doctors from Great Britain in the concept of informed consent to treatment.
I interviewed an attorney once whose husband got a job with the NHS shortly after the interview. I told her what I thought the NHS was. I heard from her a few months later saying that she didn’t believe me until she saw it with her own eyes.
Our existence committee has determined that the costs of continuing to allow you to live outweigh the benefits. Please report to the nearest liquidation center.
+ 1 dead baby.
“To lose you is no loss. To keep you is no benefit.”
Fabian Socialism, No need, no feed
Thanks, Evan. Always interesting to get the straight story from someone who lived it.
Good to hear that you are doing well.
Thanks for sharing this. I’m sorry you had to go through all that.
Jesus Humperdink Christ, Evan. That’s horrifying. Thank you for sharing it. I cannot possibly imagine, esp. the Korean surgery. I don’t think I’d be able to let go of that anger either.
I am sincerely sorry you had to go through this horrific experience. As a Mother, I can’t imagine watching my son experience such pain – it would go something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plqzeUB9B-w
That said, extremely well-written and took me a lot of different places emotionally. Thank you for the humor – it kept the tears to blinks.
Way OT (apologies) since morning lynx are dead:
This is an excellent write-up of the “PURMUNENT MUHJORUHTEE” and “demographics are destiny!” bullshit peddled by Dems.
http://theweek.com/articles/772590/white-minority-illusion
The other thing that this article doesn’t touch on is the meaninglessness of these demographic designations in the first place. They’re using some bastardization of the “one drop rule” for determining “whiteness” anyway. If you have one great-grandparent who immigrated from Spain, congrats! you’re Hispanic. (Nevermind the fact that Spanish people are White Europeans…) Additionally, many Hispanic immigrants begin identifying as white after 2-3 generations anyway. Basically it’s all bullshit voodoo, pseudoscience (but you already knew that).
This is all putting aside the toxicity of identity politics mentioned in the article.
According to those people, I’m a Hispanic. And that’s with a, maximum, 1/8 Hispanic mother (grandfather is half English-German, half Basque- Mexican. My great grandma looked like a little Mexican lady, but was 1/4 German . And somehow that makes me Hispanic.
I recall a time on Boston sports radio where somebody wrote a magazine article about “where have all the Blacks in baseball gone?”
People called in and said “Wudda you mean? What about x, y and z? (players with dark skin, but last names ending in “a”, O and “z”). That go things going with calls from folks from the Carribean and Central America – “Who you calling Black?” Who you calling Hispanic?” The identity business was way more complicated than I thought. They had to change the subject – hating Yankee fans and Peyton Manning was OK, but it started getting pretty ugly.
The demographic designation of “Hispanic” is as meaningless as “White”. You mean to tell me that an Afro-Cuban is “the same” as an Argentine descended from Italian immigrants is “the same” as a Peruvian descended from Incans mixed with Spanish…
Just like saying a Corsican is “the same” as a Dane is “the same” as a Pole is “the same” as an Algerian.
Additionally, many Hispanic immigrants begin identifying as white after 2-3 generations anyway.
About 100 years ago or so, Italians and Irish were not considered “white”. The only white people were actual WASPs.
Some Italians still aren’t white. Others can pass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trBxPFLq__g
https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Became-White-Routledge-Classics/dp/0415963095/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1526321908&sr=1-1&dpID=41comyOqPIL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
Additionally, many Hispanic immigrants begin identifying as white after 2-3 generations anyway.
From the article,
In 2045, when the shift to “minority white” country is supposed to happen, whites will be 49.8 percent of the population, with Hispanics, at 24.6 percent, the next largest group at roughly half the size.
Which begs the question of how many of them will consider themselves white by then, anyway.
I don’t remember it being too unpleasant, other than how unpleasant being stuck in a hospital bed inherently is.
No kidding. Hospitals are very stressful places at the best of times – the constant activity and noise, the people in and out of your room, etc. As I’ve said for years now, hospitals are no place for sick people.
I learned that a lot of healing and getting better is being comfortable. Having good food, being in a clean place, not being in pain, having helpful nurses and staff, fundamentally helps you recover.
Very true. One thing that too many doctors and other medical “technicians” forget is that they don’t heal you. You heal you. They are there to help your body repair itself. And an absolutely astonishing amount of healing is dependent on your state of mind. Its not just that your body heals itself. Your mind, in some way, plays a big part in the process that nobody even remotely understands.
^^This dude gets it.
It’s all about your state of mind. Wanna be a victim and you will. Wanna be in pain and you will.
Refuse to be a victim and you walk out. (Sorry. Long memories. Fuck everybody who tells you other.)
shouldn’t have read that during lunch. ugh.
I’m so sorry you experienced this. Thanks for writing about it.
That sounds rough. Hope you don’t have any more issues anytime soon.
I do not even wean to think how such a thing would go in Romania. If this surgery is even available. I would probably need to heavily bribe the doctor but don’t know how many thousands of dollars. Would be better to pay it officially but that is not the system.
What terrifies me is that a sizeable portion of people in this country (Murrika) think that healthcare would improve if the government took it over, and of course, unionized all the employees through the AFSCME or SEIU. For all the complaints that one can make about American healthcare, there’s no denying that it would be ten times worse if it were entirely run by unionized employees with little to no competition.
my standard response to that is “Imagine being at the DMV. Now imagine that your life depends on the DMV employees doing their job properly and promptly.”
Well played
“It wouldn’t be like that at all. Plus, the DMV service isn’t that bad. Plus, if it is bad it’s because they’re so underpaid.”
Did I miss any?
Purposefully omitted from the list: “Hey, that’s a fair point, maybe I have my head up my own ass on this socialized healthcare stuff.”
“if it is bad it’s because they’re so underpaid”
Probably this more than anything. From the people who think that every single problem caused by government can be fixed by throwing more money at it.
Throwing money at a poorly performing bureaucracy incentivizes poor performance.
You get more of what you reward . . . .
The hospital bill for the repair of my ruptured quadricepses tendon was about $25K — that 4 hours of outpatient surgery. Half of that was written off for “in network savings”. Out of pocket was about $2K in co-pays.
That doesn’t include the surgeon or the anesthesiologist (they haven’t been paid yet, that’s another $2K out of pocket). I blew through my $2700 deductible really fast. The bi-weekly therapy sessions are chewing up what’t left of my out-of-pocket maximum for this year.
That bill was off what is called a “Chargemaster”, essentially, list price. Nobody pays it. Either you are Medicare or Medicaid, and we get paid off their rate sheet, or you are insured, and we get paid off their rate sheet.
At a guess, the Chargemaster was $25K, Medicare would pay $10K, Medicaid would pay maybe $3 – 4K, and the insurance company price would be around $12K.
If you have no coverage at all, then you either don’t pay at all, or we figure some other discounted number that we think you can pay.
I understand the process. It’s “entertaining” to read the EOBs as they roll in.
My best guess is that I will be about 4K out of pocket when all the bills are done.
Thank you Barack Fucking Obama for driving my deductible from 200 a year to 2700 a year.
Just the cost of having our coverage tripled when Obamacare saved everyone. Deductibles, co-pays, prescription costs all skyrocketed.
But you get to keep your doctor. I promise.
/Barry
I have a small group plan. My rates increased 67% the first year of Obamacare. It’s been double digit increases every year after.
“Chargemaster”
Any relation to the Keymaster?
Well, both do trace their origins back to the dim mists of history, when demons ruled the earth . . . .
Someone else is catching during the fucking.
Glad that’s all behind you and that it ended well. We’ve been through two surgeries in the last eight months (well my wife has) and I was completely impressed with way she was treated. Every effort was made to make her as comfortable and pain free as possible (given that the whole thing basically sucks). All the staff used the had sanitizers every time and all pain medicine was administered using a two-person control system that reminded of my nuke weapon days – not to discourage use, but to make sure there were no mistakes.
RC-
Have you seen this Atlantic article?
I just ran across it, and haven’t even read it yet, but your comment above about overhead and billing makes me interested in your reaction.
There’s definitely something to it. Physicians love to whine and cry about regulations and the payors, with justification, but the claim that 20% are planning to cut their hours in two years is obvious bullshit. The 2% planning to quit altogether is basically the ordinary retirement rate. Of course, what the doctors don’t do is push for deregulation and simplification of the payor system. Quite the opposite, in fact – the AMA was a big supporter of OCare and consistently supports more government involvement in medicine.
The real change isn’t that doctors are working fewer hours, or even fewer clinic hours, its that doctors basically have to join large group practices that can manage the regulatory/billing overhead.
“the AMA was a big supporter of OCare and consistently supports more government involvement in medicine”
This is like journalists overwhelmingly supporting 1A-hostile prog politicians. How can you be so suicidally blind as to support policy that will mean the death of your profession?
I don’t have as much experience with Docs as RC, but in my limited experience they are not significantly less likely than any other group (maybe save journolists) to be economically illiterate progtards.
In the case of journalists, I think most of them are perfectly fine with a government monopoly on news because they envision themselves as being part of that monopoly. One thing that “progressives” have in common is a delusional belief that they are vastly more intelligent, judicious, and compassionate than anyone else.
They are also deluded about who will be in power after the big takeover.
What’s your take on the ‘concierge’ physicians that only take cash payment? An ex-girlfriend uses one – she pays ~$100/month, gets to see the doc whenever she wants, and actually has long conversations with her doc about her health.
There’s a niche for it in primary care, but it really doesn’t work for specialists.
My understanding is that a lot of the cost savings is in not having to deal with the payment issues – why isn’t that applicable to specialists? And why do you think it’s only a niche for primary care?
I would expect capital requirements to be a large part of that problem.
why isn’t that applicable to specialists?
Because as a relatively healthy 29 year old, having an oncologist on retainer is a non-starter.
I love it.
I got a very bad case of the flu.
Called in to my doc directly. While I was still on the phone with him, I got a text from CVS that my prescription for Tamiflu was ready.
There’s nothing worse than having to sit around and do paperwork when you’re sick.
I miss my old country doctor.
Before I got my allergies under control, I would get “sick” every spring (grass pollen) and fall (ragweed). The normal progression was 1) allergy attack; 2) plugged sinuses; 3) sinus infection; 4) optional bronchitus.
I used to be able to call the office and talk to the nurse:
Me: I got it again.
Nurse: Last time we gave you xxx. How did the work?
Me: Great.
Nurse: Ok, I’ll call in a script.
Now I drive into the doctors office; pay $190 out of pocket; so the doctor can read the chart and say “you got it again”, then have the nurse email in the script.
The good news is that this has become a rare thing.
Have you tired eating raw local honey?
I drink lots of mead. Does that count?
Can’t hurt.
Mrs. Dean takes local bee pollen religiously. It seems to have really helped her allergies.
Actually, I take shots that do an amazing job of suppressing the worst of my reactions during the grass and ragweed seasons.
I have not tried bee pollen.
Try an online service like MDLive.
I fill out a form online and a doc usually calls within a few minutes. They’ll send a scrip electronically to my pharmacy. I think $60 out of pocket.
The local doctor has started a new policy where they will try to deal with easy stuff over the phone for a nominal fee (50ish I think). If they decide they need you to come in to the office, they don’t charge for the phone consultation.
If they decide they need you to come in to the office, they don’t charge for the phone consultation.
Well that will never survive the guild challenge.
That is really awful. I spent some years in the UK and while we actually can’t complain about the Scottish NHS in some ways (our son was always seen same day he had any problems), the stories about the more intensive care procedures were just horrible, especially down in England where for whatever reason, the system was much worse. For anything scary we would have sold the farm to go private. The UK has a private sector, and they are trying to push patients onto it to save money now, but the infrastructure is just not built out enough to support that many people, so things are really tottering.
In Germany on balance we’ve had the best health care. But it is not a nationalized market like the UK really, there are several large insurance companies you pick from who compete with each other. It’s a lot like America if you ask me, except everyone has to pay in, and everyone is covered “cradle to grave”, at least until the system goes kaplooey in 30-40 years, or until, which is there is absolutely no way to stop it from doing, or until the US stops giving it a free ride on defense, whichever comes first.
If you only got charged $675 for an $80K surgery you got a better deal than anything I have ever gotten in America. My family has always been fully covered and we always get ripped off for several thousand anyways. For example my son was preemie, and we were 100% covered through the hospital. A few weeks later we received a bill for $7000. It turned out that the “grand rounds” were done by some sort of external consultancy with the same name as the hospital, and we were charged several hundred a day for them, never notified or asked for consent until we got the bill. How nice it would be if American reforms focused on that sort of rip-off rather than pie-in-the-sky redistributionist fantasies.
Back in the HMO days 18 years ago, my wife deliver a child via Cesarean Section. Two days later we left the hospital and never got a bill.
Then Obama and the Dems fixed that horrible system.
It turned out that the “grand rounds” were done by some sort of external consultancy with the same name as the hospital, and we were charged several hundred a day for them, never notified or asked for consent until we got the bill. How nice it would be if American reforms focused on that sort of rip-off rather than pie-in-the-sky redistributionist fantasies.
I had a similar experience when my son had ear tubes placed. I called beforehand and the surgical center confirmed they were in network for my insurance and what my cost would be. Assholes neglected to mention that the anesthesiologist was from a different practice that was out of network. Since then I’ve always asked about the anesthesiologist separately whenever asking about in-network status. Same with the $250 facility fee some hospitals are now charging patients on top of the copay for office visits.
This got to me.
I will gladly take my beatings to get back up on my feet.
I can’t imagine a child of mine dealing with an illness, and at the same time trying to comfort them with your “strength” that is obviously a lie you’re telling yourself to make it easier on them.
This is one of the reasons I don’t have children.
The doctor bill and the hospital bill are nearly always separate. What you probably got was a doctor bill from a group practice owned by the hospital.
Charging for “grand rounds” is bullshit, though. Grand rounds is what you do with residents and fellows as part of their training. It really doesn’t have much to do at all with patient care. Hospital-based docs like NICU docs are pretty constrained in what they can actually charge for; hospitals have to pay for them to cover departments like a NICU. That said, NICUs in particular tend to be very profitable for the groups that cover them without any hospital subsidy. Sounds like you ran into a hospital run by assholes.
A NYC hospital so, no doubt about that. In Manhattan this type of thing seemed to be par for the course. Our friends’ toddler fell and cracked his head and presented badly. So they called 911 and got an ambulance, for which they were covered. But it turns out they had to request an in-network ambulance, and because they did not request an in-network ambulance they had to pay $5000 for the ambulance.
Pay for an ambulance?
What the hell is FDNY doing with all of that tax money?
Assholes neglected to mention that the anesthesiologist was from a different practice that was out of network.
This is a real problem. We are constantly thumping on our docs to be in-network for any plans we are in-network for. We’ve even terminated our contracts with a few that couldn’t get in-network for a major insurer.
That’s good of your hospital. The anesthesiologist being out of network when the surgeon and facility were in network really irritated me.
You generally select your facility and your surgeon prior to the procedure so know their network status. Though I’m sure it’s possible, I’ve never heard of anyone selecting their anesthesiologist. I’ve always met them right before surgery, whether mine or a family member. It’s unfathomable to me that a facility would allow an anesthesiologist that’s not in-network.
AKAIK, you get the one who’s there. I wouldn’t even know how to select one myself.
You want the one with coffee stains on his scrubs.
https://goo.gl/images/LXTSWe
Hey?! You leave our friendly Romanian commenter out of this!!!
Read it. Seems pretty superficial(!).
Electronic Medical records are a pain in the ass seems to be the takeaway.
The real change isn’t that doctors are working fewer hours, or even fewer clinic hours, its that doctors basically have to join large group practices that can manage the regulatory/billing overhead.
This kind of goes back to my comment about consolidation in the AM links; they are driven at least in part by administrative processes which are a result of the need to comply with regulations.
In 2009 there were three independent anesthesia groups in Orlando. Now all three are owned by large national companies that centralized billing and compliance in Tennessee, I think.
You work for The Man?
Of course, I’m a capitalist!
OT: The obvious answer is that he’s a beta cuck.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-doesnt-your-husband-want-to-have-sex-1526122800
I though the obviously answer is he found a side chick/dude.
I thought is was when the wife got fat, old, and mean.
There was a reason he was looking for a side piece…
Doesn’t want to have sex, or doesn’t want to have sex with you?
I don’t understand this.
I’ve been married for 42+ years.
We’re both old and fat.
And we still have sex.
This. It’s basically a free lay. Remember how hard we had to work to get laid in the old days? Nah. I would never turn down a free lay. And my wife doesn’t look to bad neither.
pics?
okay. just for you. https://imgur.com/4q4kPfa
Confession: I clicked the link you left just for Playa.
Also: Would
I wasn’t sure if commenting would be appropriate, but since you started it…
Ditto
Confession: I’m disappoined I didn’t get more lewd comments.
Maybe I need to report in the evening links.
Except it went away.
Would.
“We expect male desire to always be high and to be simple, like an on and off switch”
Correct.
The obvious answer is that he’s a beta cuck.
Meaning he wants to watch you having sex with the pool boy.
OMG that was rough even reading about. I hope that the 2ND surgery did the trick and you won’t need another.
Great piece, Evan. I’m sorry that you had to endure everything described in it. I really like your writing style and hope you’ll contribute more in the future.
Also…
There’s a relatively new method that involves going in through the front instead of through the gluteus, and it reduces the recovery time by orders of magnitude. From what I understand though, there is a very small number of surgeons that currently perform it.
My co-worker had his hipped replaced about 4 weeks ago. He’s about ready to hit the golf course.
I literally do not understand how that is possible.
I saw him at the gym Friday when I was in for therapy.
His therapist said when he can walk without the cane he can ride a cart and play golf.
#miketoo
Thank you for writing this. It’s terrible you had to go through this.
Second.
Hey, thanks.
Extremely well written and interesting article, Evan. Horrifying and depressing, but a very interesting read, nonetheless.
Thanks, Mike
You know….there can only be one…
OT: Sports gambling may be allowed in the US.
No running and jumping, but what about weightlifting? Cycling? Or are those still too aggressive?
A dude I play hockey with is slowly falling apart – degenerative disc, several hip surgeries with a replacement on the horizon – and he tells me that having to find new fitness options has been a difficult part of the process.
Other than marathon sex, what are you doing to stay fit?
My wife had both her knees replaced. Cycling and swimming are the best options for cardio training at this point.
Just fucking. With a new girl. Apparently I’m talented.
Gymnast for 10 years, baseball for 12 (Catcher/second base). Taekwondo blackbelt (that I hated doing),
Hockey for 2.5 years. National powerlifting champ (call Warty!…but I won deadlifting…..)
Running in my own time. Sigh. Now I just hit the batting cages. I like bunting a lot just to fuck with people.
Curious whether gymnastics was a contributing factor?
Not at all.
Repeating my praise from upthread – really enjoyed – thank you for sharing!
Well, that was interesting.
Makes me feel a lot better about Canada!
My first child was born in Austria. The doctors induced labor which lasted almost 3 days and resulted in a C-section anyway. I later discovered that induction had nearly a zero chance of success given how little my wife was dilated. She shared a room with three other women so there was no privacy. On the other hand our out of pocket expenses were close to zero.
My second child was born in the States. Direct to the C-section, little pain, and recovery in a quiet private room but it was more expensive, both in terms of out of pocket expenses and our monthly premiums.
When people talk about how cheap health care is in Europe, I don’t think they realize that they will give up many of the luxuries we have, like private rooms and timely surgery. Or more likely they expect to keep the luxuries and have someone else pay for them.
Good article Evan. Seen a lot of stuff like that in some Korean films (reviewed “Alice in Earnestland” a few months back on my youtube). Heard similar stories from Japan as well – defunct gaijinsmash.net – but that was about 15 years ago.
Glad it worked out!
Oh yeah…even more disturbing “Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance”.
Here’s to hoping further innovation and a bit of luck can help me keep walking for decades to come. Please, Washington, don’t get in the way.
Here’s hoping. Sorry you had to go through all this.