Introduction
The shooting world has been largely overtaken with the Tacticool craze.
That’s OK and probably inevitable to some degree. Why? Because these kinds of trends have always taken hold in the shooting world. Prior to World War I, the hunting and outdoor rifle trade was dominated by lever-actions. Following that Great War, thousands of returning doughboys found they had become accustomed to their 1903 Springfield and Pattern 17 Enfield bolt guns, and so the manufacturers responded to their new preferences with great pieces like the Winchester 54 and the Remington 720/722.
Now our military uses arms crafted of aluminum and black plastic, with detachable magazines, pistol grips and the other “evil” accoutrements of the modern “assault rifle.” The shooting community likewise largely prefer these types of arms, and in truth I have a couple of AR-15s myself. They are versatile and a hell of a lot of fun.
But my first love remains with walnut and blued steel. Holding a Curio & Relics (C&R) license allows me to buy arms over 50 years in age and have them shipped to me directly, and I have made heavy use of that license over the last decade or so. Well cared for, a gun can easily last over a century, and there are many, many fine old arms on the various auction sites. Some are high-priced collector’s pieces, but others are slightly worn or refinished guns that won’t excite hardcore collectors but will still give first-rate service and many can be had at bargain prices.
I’ve been shooting and hunting for about forty-five years now. Over those years, I’ve played with a lot of older firearms, most but not all now being C&R eligible. So, while the Tacticool craze continues, in this article we’ll set the black plastic aside for a while and instead, examine some of these fine old examples of the gunmaker’s craft.
Rifles
I can tell you about an interesting… well, intersectionality, in this category. My very favorite hunting rifle crosses the gap between C&R and Tacticool. Sort of.
Thunder Speaker (yes, I name my favorite guns) was built on a 1908 DWM 98 Mauser action, qualifying it as a C&R arm. But that’s due to the legal definition of a firearm’s action as the defining, serialized portion of the total piece regulated as “firearm,” as that action is the only piece of Thunder Speaker that isn’t modern. Why? Because it’s a hunting rifle. That 100+ year old action wears a Douglas heavy sporter barrel in .338 Win Mag. My philosophy in such matters being that you can shoot little stuff with a big gun but you can’t shoot big stuff with a little gun, and Thunder Speaker will let daylight in both ends of a moose, the long way. The rifle also has a Bell & Carlson Kevlar stock and a Simmons Aetec scope. It’s a good, solid rifle–accurate, powerful, and bank-vault tough. So why choose a century-old 98 Mauser action for this rifle when the rest of it is as modern as next week?
Because of the nature of the older Mausers. These older guns are made of relatively soft, mild steel, which is case-hardened. This results in a slightly softer action with a hardened “shell.” Modern rifles are manufactured of hard, high-carbon steels, and the structure of that steel is homogeneous throughout. There are advantages to this. Modifying the action doesn’t result in dangerous weakening unless minimum specs are invaded. Also, the tolerances of the machine work in newer guns is typically better.
In older Mausers, modifying the action, say to open the feed ramp to allow for longer magnum cartridges, can break the case-hardening and dangerously weaken the action. However, the older actions have two advantages, both seen in the event of a failure of the gun in an overpressure situation: a case-hardened action has a lower yield strength but a higher ultimate strength, and in the event of a catastrophic failure will split or balloon rather than explode. In a hunting rifle, where there is always the slight but ever-present chance your barrel may become obstructed without you noticing, that’s an important point.
But mostly, I use old Mauser actions because I love them. Back in the 1990s, there were huge carload lots of surplus Mausers being imported from the newly liberated eastern European nations, and a lot of them were the tough, desirable 98 actions. You could pick up one of these guns for a hundred bucks or so. Lots of them were converted into affordable, reliable, powerful sporters.
And for a few more bucks (OK, quite a few more), you can get the ultimate expression of the Mauser design, a pre-64 Winchester Model 70. The ubiquitous Remington 700 is another great bolt-action gun, but run the serial number before buying. The best Remington guns were made when the company was still owned by DuPont, which means prior to 1993.
But enough about bolt guns. Are lever actions your thing? There are tens of thousands of old Winchester 94s out there. This John Browning design is the rifle that predated the AR-15 as America’s Rifle; find yourself a pre-64 gun, with the beautiful old Winchester deep blue finish and a hand-fitted walnut stock, and you’ve got yourself a true American icon. If something more unusual appeals, there are tons of old Savage 99s out there, typically at lower prices than the Winchesters. The Savage 99 is a neat old piece, a hammerless, streamlined lever gun firing powerful cartridges like the .250-3000 and .300 Savage. The Savage has a rotary magazine and older examples have a neat little magazine cartridge counter in a window on the left-hand side of the frame, so you always know how many rounds you have available. The Marlin 336 is also a great piece and affordable but again caution is in order; find yourself an old New Haven gun, built when Marlin was still Marlin (prior to 2007) and, preferably, before the addition of the idiotic cross-bolt safety.
How about semi-autos? The scary-looking tacticools aren’t the only game in town. The great old Winchester 100 is functionally identical to an AR-10, right down to the detachable magazine (although the Winchester’s capacity is 5 rounds), but the pre-64 guns are, again, nicely appointed with fine walnut and polished blued steel. The post-64 guns are a little rougher, with rolled basket-weave patterns on the stock instead of cut checkering and slightly lower quality finish, but they are still good solid arms. The Remington 742 is another vintage semi-auto, this one available in long, full-power rounds like the .30-06, and there are even old Remington 81 Woodsmasters, the old “Piano Legs” around, although those command pretty high prices if they are in good shape.
I could go on about rifles at considerable length, but let’s move on to…
Shotguns
If there is such a thing as history’s most versatile firearm, it’s probably a 12-gauge pump shotgun. If you can only afford one gun, you could do a lot worse than to buy a 12-gauge pump shotgun. With light shot, they are great for quail; with slugs, they’ll kill a bear. Fortunately, there are a lot of good old used guns available. These fine old used pump-guns fall into four broad categories: 1) Winchester Model 12, 2) Remington 870, 3) Mossberg 500, and 4) everything else.
If you’re considering an 870 (or, indeed, any Remington) again, run the serial number before buying. You want a pre-1993 gun if possible. There are plenty of 870s available that meet this standard.
As for Mossbergs, there doesn’t seem to be a cutoff date. Mossberg remains as it has been, the oldest family-owned firearms manufacturer in American history, and that’s not the worst reason to choose a Mossberg shotgun if you’re looking to buy new.
But when it comes to fine old guns, you just can’t beat the pre-64 Winchester Model 12. It’s the gold standard against which all other pump shotguns are measured. Based on the John Browning-designed Winchester 1897 pump-gun, the Model 12 saw almost ninety years of production in one form or another, ending with the Browning-built carriage trade guns. Field-grade guns may be had for reasonable prices, but there are a few cautionary notes with the Model 12: the very early nickel-steel guns are safe to shoot but are not easy to refinish if restoration is your goal, and some of the very early 16-gauge guns still have 2 9/16” chambers, which could cause problems with modern ammo.
I have two Model 12s in the rack, a 1940 12 gauge and a 1941 16 gauge, both field grade guns with solid ribs, both bought as project guns, refinished and cut for choke tubes (Briley or GTFO). They are great, solid, reliable guns, either on the trap range or in the field; the lighter 16 gauge is my favorite gun for mountain grouse.
If semi-auto shotguns are your preference, again, there is an iconic piece of gunwork that stands out and, again, it’s a product of John Browning, the DaVinci of firearms – the Browning Auto-5. Not the new “A-5,” but the long-recoil original. Examples of the Auto-5 abound, and, with a few exceptions, don’t command huge prices; the Belgian-made guns run a little higher and, for some reasons, Belgian-made Sweet Sixteens can’t be had for under a grand. During WW2, the Auto-5 was made by Remington as the FN plant in Belgium was occupied by the Germans, and those American Brownings for some reason sell for lower prices. Ditto for the Remington 11 and the Savage 720, both American-made Auto-5 clones made under license.
Don’t investigate the Auto-5 if you’re worried about weight, though, as 12-gauge examples run nine pounds unloaded, with the Sweet Sixteen and it’s 20-gauge counterpart running almost a pound lighter. Again, I have two examples of this gun in the rack: a WW2 American 12 gauge and a Belgian Sweet Sixteen made in 1964. I love them both, weight and all.
There are other options. The excellent Remington 1100 was made for a long time, and there are many available at reasonable prices – again, you’ll want a pre-1993 gun. There are many, many others. Look around!
Prefer doubles? There are so many varieties of C&R-eligible double guns out there it isn’t funny. A Winchester 21 will run you no less than five figures, while an old Savage/Stevens 311 can be had for a couple hundred bucks. Surf any of the online gun auction sites and you’ll find tons of double guns at every level in between these extremes. Over-and-unders tend to be a little costlier than side-by-sides, until you get to the top-end guns, then the rule reverses for reasons I’ve never been able to ascertain.
Break-open single shots can be had for under a hundred bucks; some years back I bought an old H&R Topper 12-gauge single for $75, whacked the barrel off at 18” and stuck a fiberglass stock on it. Now named the Ditch Witch, it generally resides behind the seat of my pickup when I’m bumming around in the mountains. If someone were to want a gun for shooting rabbits out of the truck window… Well, I’m not saying I’d do such a thing, but if I were, I’d have the gun for it.
Speaking of light and handy weapons, let’s move on to…
Sidearms
My thoughts on sidearms are something of a mixed bag. I prefer modern semi-auto pistols for concealed carry, almost always relying on a Glock 36 for that role; although, I occasionally tote a full-size 1911 or sometimes a Walther PPK in .380ACP. So, modern stuff for that task; but for target shooting, woods-bumming and general outdoor stuff, I’m a wheelgun guy. Since concealed carry is a topic unto itself, I’ll talk about recreational and holster guns here.
A holster gun should meet three criteria: it should be light enough to carry easily holstered on a trouser belt or gun belt all day, short enough to clear leather quickly if you need it in a hurry, and powerful enough to handle any serious task you might undertake. Most major-caliber handgun rounds will do this, but personally, I’m a fan of the .45 Colt. My favored load, a 255-grain Keith-style hard cast semi-wadcutter over 8 grains of Unique, will blast a fist-sized chunk of wood out of the far side of a railroad tie and will lengthwise a cow elk. That’s plenty of power. Not surprisingly, it was a gun in that caliber that was one of the first real combat magnums.
Most shooters know of the old story of the U.S. Army in the Philippines and the genesis of the Colt/Browning 1911 and the .45ACP, which replaced the anemic .38 Long Colt in service sidearms. But what a lot of folks don’t know is that stocks of the old 1873 Colts weren’t sufficient for deployed troops, so the Army hurriedly contracted with Colt for a run of their New Service double-action revolver in .45 Colt for issue to the troops until the new automatic could be fielded. This gave us the 1909 Army Colt, a big, heavy revolver that packed a pretty good wallop. Smith & Wesson wasn’t slacking off in this time frame either; in 1908 they brought out the .44 First Model Hand Ejector, the famous “Triple Lock,” again a big, heavy revolver chambered for the .44 Special.
These two guns changed the way the shooting world looked at sidearms. None other than Elmer Keith described the Triple Lock as the finest revolver ever made, and samples of both the 1909 Colt and the Triple Lock command high prices today. But fortunately, there are other options.
My personal woods-bumming sidearms are a 1974-vintage Smith & Wesson 25-5 in .45 Colt, with a 4” barrel. Those guns run around a grand, but my other is a new-purchase (2012) Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt with the 4 ¾” barrel, and those guns can be had new for about five hundred bucks. Mrs. Animal’s outdoor sidearm is a 1979 Ruger Security-Six, which is unique in having the smallest grip frame I’ve ever seen in a .357 Magnum, perfect for her tiny hand. Security-Sixes run about four hundred and their fixed-sight counterpart, the Speed-Six, a tad less.
Whatever caliber you fancy, there are plenty of old wheelguns available. The single-action Ruger Blackhawks have been in production for a good long time and available in rounds ranging from the .30 Carbine to the .44 Magnum. In double-actions, there are lots of K, L and N-frame Smiths in various calibers. You can even find good used Colt Detective Specials showing some holster wear at good prices, and that’s still a damn fine CCW piece.
If you prefer autos, 1911s are great but there are occasional prizes such as the Smith & Wesson 39, a solid, reliable 9mm auto that goes for around three hundred, when you can find them. The ultimate design of John Browning, the 9mm Hi-Power, still commands a fair price but there are plenty of them available; a military surplus example with some holster wear can be had at a good price, and they are still good reliable guns.
Bargains are where you find them – and while we are on the topic of bargains, let’s move on to…
Rimfires
I put these in a category of their own, mostly because rimfire rifles and handguns are uniquely useful for low-cost practice shooting, plinking and small game hunting. And the options here are, very nearly, without limit.
When I was a kid, I almost never went anywhere without a .22 rifle in hand. I learned to shoot with the old .22 Mossberg auto that my Mom bought my Dad for their 3rd anniversary in 1950 (and I still have it), but when I was about 13, I used a good chunk of a summer’s haying and de-tasseling money to buy a Marlin 783 in .22 WMR. I proceeded to use it to kill a small mountain of squirrels, crows and woodchucks around the Old Man’s place over the next few years. The old Marlin is still in the gun rack and it still shoots as good as ever. Growing up in Allamakee County, Iowa, was awesome. I wandered the woods all summer, hunted in the fall, and ran a trapline in the winter–and that old Marlin was my constant companion.
Bolt-action Marlins, Mossbergs and various other makes of rimfire rifles in this vintage typically sell for between a hundred and two hundred bucks. Lever guns such as the Marlin 39 and the 9422 Winchester command higher prices but can be had for under a grand. The semi-auto Marlin 60 may be the most popular rimfire firearm ever made, with over eleven million produced to date, and you can get these used for around a hundred bucks if you shop around.
Listing all the .22 rimfire rifles available would burn up more bandwidth than I can afford in this article, but whether you like bolt guns, autos, levers, or anything else, there are nice old C&R-eligible guns out there. Want a lightweight old single-shot? Find an old Stevens Favorite. Serious target rifle? Decent old Winchester 52s can be had for under a grand. Plinker? The Marlin 60 or the reliable Ruger 10-22 are available by the thousand.
And don’t overlook rimfire handguns. Brand-spanking new Ruger Single Sixes run under five hundred bucks, and you can get a vintage model with a better trigger for around three. The original Ruger Standard Auto has moved into C&R territory now. I have one, a 6” version the Old Man bought mail order (!) around 1960. I’ve run a lot of rounds through that and my other .22 sidearm, a 1930s-vintage Colt Officer’s Target. Great guns, cheap and easy to shoot, reliable and solid.
As with rifles, there are too many types of rimfire handguns around to list. You couldn’t go wrong with Smith & Wesson K-22 or the smaller J-frame Kit Gun. The old Rugers are great but don’t pass up a High Standard auto; they are in big demand as target guns but there are many available. The Colt Diamondback was available in .22LR, as was the old Ruger SP-101, if double-action revolvers are your preference. The old Harrington & Richardson break-top revolvers in .22LR were made in the thousands and can be had for a couple hundred bucks.
Shop around! The possibilities are nearly endless.
Now, if they would just bring back the .25 Stevens rimfire…
Conclusion
The world of fine old guns is so great, I couldn’t possibly list even a fraction of them in the space the Glibertarian editors would allow me. I could write an entire article on old shotguns, another on big-game rifles, one on centerfire sidearms. But in this segment, I necessarily gave you all the broad strokes, leavened with my lengthy experience in the shooting world.
The Tacticool world will always be with us now, and that’s fine. But I suspect there are plenty of folks who still appreciate walnut and blued steel. If you are one of them, great! My advice is this: get a C&R license. Make note of all the various auction sites. Drop in to your local gun dealer and even pawn shops on occasion; you never know where you’ll find a prize. Try the unusual old guns.
And remember this: antiques, guns made before 1898, are exempt from even the C&R regulation, and can be bought, sold, traded and shipped directly with no paperwork.
But that’s a subject for another day.
You’ll never be this tacticool
great article
I have an old Remington 870 that I bought from my father in law for $200. He’d had it since the ’60s. Shoots beautifully.
I have an online pal from a sports message board who has a fantastic collection of vintage infantry rifles – Enfields, Mausers, Springfields, Krags, Mosins, Lebels, Arisakas, etc. Very envious.
I have an Arisaka that I got from my dad. It’s pretty cool.
Try finding ammo for it though
It’s findable on line, but it can be a little pricey.
I got some from a Swedish company about 10 years ago. Can’t remember the name.
Norma. yeah they are steep. Your best bet is to buy brass and reload. They are about 2.50 per round already loaded.
The problem with Arisakas is that the rifles and bolts were shipped here separately. Upon arrival the bolts and rifles were mostly mismatched so the headspace in most of them is incorrect. It is very possible to experience some problems, even catastrophic failures. Anyone that has one should have a smith check it out before shooting it. Mine is in 6.5mm and it seals ok-ish but the primers jump out about 3/4 the way.
I dont shoot it.
Yeah, I don’t know if he shoots that one particularly often. 7.7 is expensive as hell.
Is the flower ground off?
Nope, all intact.
That’s worth a bit more than lunch money.
Mine is ground, as are most.
Yeah, I remember my dad was excited when he got it, for just that reason.
I have a 6.5 Arisaka my Father-in-law brought home – Imperial Chrysanthemum is intact so it was captured, not surrendered.
It had a broken striker which I replaced. Shoots okay but sights are zeroed for 300 yards and not really adjustable.
I’ve got a few of those: a practically untouched Mosin, a G98 Mauser, and an SMLE MkIII. They all fire, but getting ammo for the Mauser is a little tricky and I’m wary of putting too much pressure on the barrel.
I got a surplus Mosin, cleaned off the goo, and……. turned it tacticool. Synthentic stock and scope.
Heathen!
I got mine with 2 x 500 round cans of ammo from a buddy, trading a parted out Winchester 1897, but I haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet. I’ve heard it’s a little like being kicked by a mule and going deaf at the same time.
My brother in law has a Mosin. It’s a bit painful to shoot, honestly.
Yes, but that fuckin moose 2 counties over will fall down dead.
I double up on the hearing protection.
I got the span can of ammo, but it’s the corrosive shit. You have to clean the barrel when you get home.
You should really at least run a few patches through the barrel every time you shoot.
With the Berdan primed corrosive ammo, I actually rinse with hot water every time.
Other stuff… meh. Carbon is a good lube. I have over 7000 rounds through my 9mm, and I’ve never cleaned it.
*Waits for bellowing of an NCO*
I’ve heard it described as more akin to light artillery than a rifle. I think the joke goes something like: AR-15 vs groundhog, the groundhog crawls off and bleeds out; AK-47 vs groundhog, the groundhog dies on the spot if you manage to hit it; Mosin vs groundhog, the groundhog dies and the resulting shockwave kills the rest of the colony.
I’m paranoid about cleaning, so I factor in an hour or so of cleaning time within a day or two after I come home from the range, but I’ve heard with the Berdan stuff it’s best not to put it off even that long.
I’d be more paranoid with a more expensive gun.
I got mine back when they were under a hundred bucks. I should have bought more than 1.
if you’ve already gone tacticool, you should look into a muscle break.
Takes some of the sting away, and looks cool.
OT: I guess the Fourth Circuit doesn’t know about the constitution-free zone along the border:
Fourth Circuit Rules That Suspicionless Forensic Searches of Electronic Devices at the Border Are Unconstitutional
Nice. Now if we can just get some satisfaction on Civil Asset Forfeiture.
“along” the border is 100 miles.
My grandfather gave me an old Ithaca shotgun. Only ever hunted with it once, it will spend most of its time with me in the cabinet. But it will always be there. Strict family policy. Don’t sell guns you didn’t buy.
I have an Ithaca Featherlight 12 ga. pump my dad got for me over 40 years ago that I used to hunt with. The shells eject from the bottom.
A pre-75 Ithaca 37, preferably riotgun, is on my wishlist.
I have two featherweight 37s. Tightest pattern imaginable. Damn things shoot like rifles.
Yeah it’s a nice gun, but I never shoot it anymore since I started using an over/under.
Beautiful guns. This is a great post. I have some serious gun envy over that Ruger. How many hoops does one have to jump through to get a C&R license?
It’s not that bad. Your local regs may vary, but the Imperial requirements just involve a background check and notifying (reply not required) your county Sheriff that you’re applying. YOu have to keep records of guns you buy with the license.
So I’d kicked the idea of a C&R around for awhile but I’d been warned off by a couple friends because of the list requirement. Basically, do I want to be on a relatively short list of gun owners held by the ATF, with the implied answer being “heck no.” How much of an issue is it, really?
I don’t worry about it too much. I reckon they have lists of gun owners no matter what the law says anyway, and an old fart who collects old Brownings and Winchesters isn’t going to be very high on the “concern” list. Yes, I think the whole system is horseshit, but it’s the system we have to deal with.
Have you had to deal with the dreaded inspection visit or whatever? I’ve read around and it seems like nobody’s actually had Feds show up and demand to see their “bound book” but with my luck I’d show up on the random visit list annually.
I did once in the fifteen years or so I had a regular FFL. I”ve had the C&R for over a decade now and have never heard from them.
Interesting. Thanks. That sounds relatively simple.
Great article. My Gramps gave me a Winchester Model 50 that’s closing in on 60 years old. Still looks new. Steel is real!
I’ve always loved the cammo/reflective vest combo.
About time that somebody took the baton and started posting Firearm Friday content.
That is a fantastic name. Great read.
My .45-70 Marlin 1895G is the “Bullwhacker.” 😀
Also a fantastic gun and a fantastic round.
What are the legal requirements to establish residency in a state?
If you own a a property you list as your legal primary residence, but spend most of your time at a different one, does that invalidate the recidency element for non-residence?
I would spend enough time in a different adequate enough to firmly establish without question your legal domicile. It’s up to you whether you decide to move and firmly establish your legal domicile elsewhere after you have secured whatever it is you want to acquire. Up to and including getting a new driver’s license.
But that’s just me.
I’m probably going to have to buy a place in Nevada, and then actually live there. CA sucks.
If you own a a property you list as your legal primary residence, but spend most of your time at a different one, does that invalidate the recidency element for non-residence?
My friend’s parents had to stop spending half the year in CA, because although they listed their primary residence in TX, they were spending enough time there the CA Dept of Revenue asked them some pointed questions about how much time they spent, exactly, in CA for that year and the year previous.
But I mostly agree with Pomp. Pay the DL/registration tax and establish a residence.
If your vehicle is in the State of CA for more than 10 days, they require you to register it in CA or remove it from the state. Give me your money, serf.
I got hassled when I was doing contract work in CA about my tag/license. I told him I was still a FL resident and was there on temporary work. Seemed good enough for him, because I didn’t have to show any proof.
A buddy was doing multimonth contract work in CA and they got hassled with out of state plates.
CA (the government) is a shithole that can’t slide into the water fast enough.
I just finished a year in Silicon Valley. They hit us up once about my car with Colorado plates, sent a snail-mail demand to change registration to our home address in Colorado.
Mrs. Animal wrote a response that, in effect, ended in the words “…and the horse you rode in on.” We never heard from them again.
They don’t have proof until you get 2 parking tickets or moving violations more than 10 days apart. And then, they fuck you good and hard.
The only exception is for active duty military.
So much for doing a vacation along the California coast.
The states that want your tax money the most are the ones that have the strictest requirements about you NOT being a resident. CA will come after you up to 5 years later if they think you lied about not being a resident. They look at everything… credit card reciepts, where your kids go to school, gps on the vehicles…
Tax I’d be paying on income earned in New York. I was looking at establishing residence for expanding my firearm collection without the “de feacto no-issue” New York permitting BS. The plan being to store the collection in a safe in said sactuary state for the 2nd amendment, thus the only issue being what is required to count as a legal resident of said sanctuary state.
*New York taxes income earned in New York by anyone, resident or not and income earned outside of New York for New York residents.
NY has a shitty definition of earned in NY as well. Fuck the wet streets cause rain convenience of the employer doctrine. If the employee couldn’t work where they want, they’ll go to work for another employer.
It’s a little hard to argue when my current employer is… New York state.
Fortunately, unless you wualify as a “Public Officer” under a very specific legal definition, you are not required to be resident within the state to be a state employee. You still can’t telecommute though.
Guns are easier.
I know someone who bought a handgun in VA. They required 2 forms of ID, and told her where to go get the library card that counted as the 2nd form of ID
From what I can tell, buying a house and changing my driver’s licence and vehicle registration to that address denotes residency, and no one mentions amount of time at location. So what I wonder about is if I buy a house in a good state, transfer my license to that address along with my vehicle registration will spending excessive time in proximity to my job risk legal complications
I would like to add that said residence is my “retirement house” where I plan to reside after the work is done, and not merely some legal fiction.
It’s been too long since I purchased a firearm, but I believe we in VA only need 1 form of ID as of July 2017. So slow progress being made even with our Gun Grabbing Gov.
I’m 99% the library card would not count as the second form of ID then or for non-residents now who still need to present a 2nd form. The 2nd ID must contain your address. Utility bills, voter registration cards, concealed carry permits would all be valid.
Also, apparently only some utilities are valid as I found out when I brought my trash bill from a private service as my 2nd form and was denied. If I had trash service from the city then it would have been accepted. That was right after we moved and I hadn’t updated my checks or CCP yet with my new address. That really sucked and added another hour of driving back and forth to find something valid.
Our next purchase is planned to be a Mossberg 500 tactical shotgun.
The question is 12 gauge; 20 gauge; or .410 bore.
This needs to be a shotgun my 61-year-old wife with carpal tunnel in both hands will practice with and shoot accurately if the time comes to that.
Any recommendations?
There are a number of home defense shotguns in .410. Go with the proper ammo and she’ll be able to handle it and protect the home. Mossberg 500 is a good place to start.
I got a Maverick 88 on sale (It’s the Mossberg 500 but without a cross bolt safety) because it was on sale. Under 200 bucks.
I like 12 gauge because you can use it for anything.
If your wife has CTS, you might want to consider a pistol grip.
You can get mini shells for mossberg 12 gauges too.
https://youtu.be/4P7BNcw1lj8
Thanks for the inputs. It looks like Federal has some decent personal defense rounds in .410.
So I am leaning towards the Mossberg 500 HS410.
I’d go with 20 gauge for your stated purpose. A .410 is not a great defense round. 20 gauge is a good compromise and #4 buckshot is plenty o kill power.
thanks.
I would recommend the 20 as well but I was thinking about his wife with CTS in both wrists. Can’t train with it if it hurts too much to shoot it. A slug in a .410 at home defense ranges will do the job quite nicely, or the coin shot now on the market. If he can find a range that rents firearms, he might be able to try out both before making a choice.
I own a 12 gauge Mossberg 590 with a pistol grip. My 5’2″ 100 pound wife is able to shoot it without a physical problem.
Great article, Animal. I have a Marlin lever-action but its a recent remanufacture, same thing with my Remington 870. Someday I’ll be able to afford all the guns I want.
I have 336 in 35 Remington from when they were still “hand crafted”.
Me too, except mine’s a .30-30. I thought about the .35 when I bought it, but decided on easy availability of ammo. This was back before I loaded my own.
My grandfather left me the 336. He was odd in the he liked small handguns but large caliber rifles. It’s the one gun I wouldn’t sell for any amount of money.
I hear you. I have all of my Dad’s old guns. Not for sale at any price.
Great article. I’ve got a smattering if everything, some I purchased, some inherited. I’ve got an AR because the D’s don’t want me to have one but I would have to say the coolest guns in my safe are my grandmother’s Winchester 1873 in .32-20 and my dad’s Stephens 12ga side by side from the forties.
I have a number of Milt Sparks holsters for my 1911s but I pretty much carry a Tupperware gun in a clip on holster for outdoors and a little fella in a Remora holster that I can just slip into my belt and cover with a shirt.
32-20 used to be big stuff…before Elmer’s 357 magnum. I have my great grandfather’s S&W 32-20. I bought some factory ammo for it. I could see the bullet arch to the target. The bullet stuck in a piece of oak with about an 8th of an inch sticking out. The brass is foil-thin so I am afraid to load it up very much but I sure love that gun. It is one of the finest machined pieces I own.
Fantastic article Animal. A man after my own heart. I think I have posted some photos from my collection before but I cant remember where. It was just the tip of the iceberg though.
I was told .32-20 was developed for marketing to female shooters. Given that this belonged to my grandmother, that would make sense. It supposedly has some renewed life for the same reason.
I have a pre ’93 870, but only because I bought it pre ’93. What happened in 1993?
We don’t talk about 1993. It was a dark time.
Janet Reno became attorney general?
DuPont sold Remington and Big Green’s quality declined.
I like the look of the R51, but no way am I going to pay to be a “beta tester”.
I haven’t had any issues with my c.2015 870. Killed many a pigeon (long story) with it.
There are a lot of people I know in the military. Old timey types that believed the “good old days” ended in 1993.
Great article. Glad to see more firearms content.
I have an old hex Mosin. I forget if its 1934 or 1936 stamped. Great gun in very good condition. It’s fun to shoot with the old 46g training ammo.
I just wanted to point out that Sloopy missed a birthday this morning. The Q post worthy Holly Valance.
Q worthy indeed.
“Over-and-unders tend to be a little costlier than side-by-sides, until you get to the top-end guns, then the rule reverses for reasons I’ve never been able to ascertain.”
It’s because top-end side-by-sides are “regulated” like double rifles to shoot slugs to the same exact point at a given distance. It’s a time-consuming labor intensive process that take quite a bit of skill and experience, that usually involves firing it, making minute adjustments to individual barrels in a specific jig, waiting for the barrels to cool off, then doing it again and again, until it’s right.
So this will just come off as kindof a brag, but my FIL was making room in the safe and gave my oldest son a Winchester 94 in .32 Special with a serial number that’s evidently from the early ’40s (had been his late best friend’s Dad’s deer gun), plus an Arisaka with a chrysanthemum….
Whoa. He’s really laying it on thick for that Grandpa of the Year competition.
Tacticool question: Nickel Boron BCG worth it?
As a gun nut, I really enjoyed this one.
The oldest gun I have is a High Standard double nine that my Grandfather bought new for $75. I have the box with the date and price written on it.
I had to take it to a gunsmith because it kept jamming, but now it fires like new, a lot of fun and pretty accurate.
How picky about ammunition is your Colt Officer’s Target?
I have a Colt Match Target from around 1975 and with CCI match grade 22LR does really well although after 300 rounds or so will start to foul. OTH, with cheap 22LR it just sprays starting from the first round.
The main reason 22s can be picky about ammo: groove diameter varies wildly from .219 to .222. If low end ammo is inaccurate it is because the bullets aren’t engaging properly in the rifling. Use heavier loads and the bases of the bullets will expand and engage. I have a couple like that…cheapo stuff just sprays or even keyholes the target. If I put CCI mini-mags in there it becomes a tack driver.
This becomes more of a problem with semi-autos as some of them cant take the hammering that hot loads deliver. For a colt woodsman I would stick to the CCI match grade and stay away from the mini-mags. I dont know that much about the Woodsman, but I do know about the problem you are experiencing. Oh, this problem is more pronounced in convertible revolvers as they tried to split the difference between 22LR and 22Mag. Colt made theirs .220 and Ruger made theirs .221. For my ruger it is either .22Mag or CCI mini-mags only with the 22LR cylinder.
Thanks! I knew one of the Glibs here would have an opinion. This was a present from a now deceased uncle. He had more guns than he knew what to do with and when he was thinning the collection gave it to me. My guess is that it probably has no more than 3,000 rounds through it.
He was the person who introduced me to hunting as kid.
Never sell a Woodsman. The reason you have trouble with it gumming up is that the tolerances on it are tighter than tight. The machining on it is like a sewing machine. it is a work of art.
It’s a fond memory of my uncle. Even if it was junk, I’d never sell it. Plus I live in the people’s republic of NJ – it’s not easy to sell even if I wanted to do so.
Mine likes CCI Green Tags best. But Suthenboy, I see, has already summed up most of the .22 ammo issues.
DO IT.
Planning to.
Excellent!
OK then.
*touches brim of hat, nods*
Is there an advantage to bolt-action over semi-auto, other than looking so god damn cool?
You don’t burn through ammo as fast?
*hides ammo receipts from wife*
No chance of runaway if you get a cheap model. Simpler mechanism makes it easier to clean. Handles heavier rounds with less difficulty. Style points.
CS, the advantage is with the shooter not the rifle. My preferred hunting guns are Ruger No.1 falling block, single shot and Winchester ’94 lever action. I can bring home the same amount of game with either.
No.1s – 22 hornet, 7mm Rem Mag, 375 Holland and Holland.
Win ’94s – 30-30, 32 Win Spl, 375 Win, 450 Marlin
That covers everything from squirrels to elephants
Huh. Somewhat more complicated than just a hammer and pin.
Some view them as more accurate for a variety of reasons. With modern semiautos made to modern tolerances however, this difference is negligible for the average shooter.
Bolts are generally more accurate unless you spend a whole lot more money for your semi. Moving parts and accuracy are not friends.
That first picture looks like a Savage – which will be my next purchase. I have a Savage .22 bolt gun, now I want the big brother.
Can’t speak to the bigger Savage bolt guns, but the .22 is fun. It had some issues with feed and extraction – but I suspect it was the ammo I was using.
I have a Savage .30-06, nothing fancy, but it hits what I aim at.
That’s the idea. I’m thinking .308.
As they were the guns I learned to shoot on, I have a special place in my heart for revolvers and wood furniture bolt actions.
Speaking of classic guns, I encourage everyone to go to http://www.thecmp.org and look at picking up an M1 Garand. Requirements are that you need to be a member of an “approved shooting club” (NRA doesn’t count, I had to join my state-level group) and “firearms competency” (CCW permit suffices). The cool thing is that, since it’s a congressionally chartered organization, they do the background check on their end and mail the rifle directly to your house, no FFL required.
I love, love, love my Garand. Shoots like a dream and accurate right out of the box. I checked the serial number and it saw action in Korea. I loaded up on a ton of old Pakistani surplus ammo already loaded in the clips for a song.
I want one so bad, I will definitely check that out this weekend.
Thanks
GSSF membership counts! Even if you’re not a Glock fan, GSSF matches are recommended as a place to have fun in a low pressure setting from novice to expert.
I really want to look into this. Same with their 1911 program. In the People’s Republic of Maryland you have to get a handgun license to buy a handgun anyway, and I think that would fulfill a few of the requirements regarding marksmanship.
After some light guidance from Glibs, I’ve been doing some market recon looking for a left handed M1A. Any recommendations for configuration? The scout looks like a good compromise.
I have a full sized loaded that I dig. It’s heavy, but the more accurate rifle I own.
I’ve shot regular M1As / M14s and the Scout. Did not like the Scout – the shorter barrel seemed to increase noise and recoil, while decreasing accuracy.
I’d like to give the model with the precision stock a try.
What’s left-handed? The ejection-port? The safety and mag-release were all along the center of the rifles I used.
Yeah, the ejection port. I don’t mind handguns and bolt actions throwing brass toward me, but semi-auto I’d prefer to eject away from me.
“I’ve been doing some market recon looking for a left handed M1A”
Does Springfield even make one?
i own no rifles, but i have a deep seated desire to own an M1A someday.
I know Fulton Armory and… a few other people that make them
e.g.
http://www.lrbarms.com
http://www.smithenterprise.com/
Springfield may not, so I might end up either getting a true M1A in righty, or a clone in lefty. Not sure yet.
These appear to be the only people who make a lefty m14 receiver
http://buladefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/BDS_M14LeftHanded_lowres.pdf
and its relatively new (as of Jan 18); my guess is that they manufacture the receiver and all the other parts are OEM
This was a great read, Animal. Nicely done!
Good article.
Aside from assassinating the occasional gopher, I don’t hunt. I like guns, though.
I am a pistol shooter only, all semi-autos, except for the Sirhan Sirhan Signature Model .22 snubnose. You’re mostly safe from harm if you’re behind it. I have built a couple of 1911s, now, and I plan to build more. Maybe an 80%, but I’d have to conjure up a mill, first.
I’m tempted to find a “cowboy gun” .22 just to play with. Or maybe one of these. If one falls out of the sky, I’ll catch it.
Sirhan Sirhan Signature Model .22 snubnose
I loled.
“”the Sirhan Sirhan Signature Model .22 snubnose. “”
Don’t really understand the point of a .22 revolver, even just recreationally; i get the plinking appeal of a 10/22, or a bolt-action for kiddy target-rifle. “Snake gun”?
Kennedy’s were sneaky!
You have never shot a S&W model 17 or generally known as a K-22.
So, “fun target gun”?
This headline has a different meaning in California.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/brawl-breaks-out-at-cornhole-tournament-benefiting-charity/746017788
Just say no to beanbag violence.
Don’t really understand the point of a .22 revolver, even just recreationally
Strictly for amusement- paper, tin cans, rodents. And it won’t throw the brass all over the driveway. I haven’t yet figured out a quick and easy way to pick up my shell casings.
In keeping with proper Florida Man behavior, my dad always kept his Taurus 8 shot .22 revolver in the center console of his truck so as to perforate FDOT road signage.
Questions:
1) With all these fire arms in you possession, how do you not run around mass murdering people?
2) How often do you find them discharging of their own accord? This seems to happen at an alarming rate for LEO’s, and I imagine in the possession of an untrained civilian there’s probably a high probability of shooting yourself or a loved one every time one of those things is allowed out of the safe.
1) we aren’t? I thought that’s why the orphan market is such high demand.
2) the black ones are hotheads.
allowed out of the safe
Was ist “safe”?
Excellent article, Mr Animal. For awhile there I thought you were taking inventory at my house. I have a dilemma that I can’t seem to resolve. I’m old, like really old. I have my financial affairs in order but not my personal affairs. My two kids (son, daughter) have very little interest in guns/hunting. I’ve given my son the Winc 94, (my first gun with my own money in about 1950), a Smith .357, a Western Field 30-06 (I think they are a generic Mossberg?) which I really liked for deer. A scratch didn’t hurt. He has shot the 94 a few times. I gave a good friend a 94 cheapo and a Charles Daly 20 gauge O/U. A niece an SKS that I enjoyed shooting deer with. A nephew a 20 gauge pump, Springfield maybe?
Now what do I do with the rest? Anything I give to my daughter will be at the local pawnshop before sundown. I have 3 grand daughters in their 20s, maybe 1 has some interest, the other 2 not, although they have shot a handgun or 2 when they visit. I think any guns they get will be stuck in the closet forever until they are forgotten or lost. Many are guns that I’ve had a long, long time, including the .30 Rem 141 that belonged to my Dad. They mean a lot to me but not much to today’s generation. I would like to keep the guns in the family but to be cared for and used. On the other hand after I’m gone what would I care?