Throughout my life, people have often wondered why I’m an anarcho capitalist. Often asking questions like “Why?” and “How about roads?” and “Why is private property not theft?” and a million other questions. This is a series of essays on the subject so that I can refer people to them, just to make my life slightly easier. So let’s start out with a small description of what Anarcho-Capitalism is.
Anarcho-Capitalism is not a system of government–it’s a system of society, one which allows for the existence of whatever subsystems you want: Anarcho-Communism, Socialism, free market communes, whatever you want. The whole point is that people engage in free association and don’t aggress against each other. In fact the central tenet is the NAP, or the Non Aggression Pact, which stipulates that someone can’t attack someone else unless previously attacked or trespassed upon beforehand. There is of course a simple problem however, how does one avoid a “tit for tat” situation? Well that ends quite simply in that although others cannot punish the infractor normally, they may instead enact an effective ban on interaction with the aggressive actor. Because of this, one can’t force people to follow certain rules, unless they’re on your land or property, and you may peacefully eject people who are on your property, assuming that you can persuade them to do so.
So now that that’s out of the way, time to answer the meat and potatoes of this essay, “Why is private property not theft? If people are laboring and the factory owner sits in his office, why does he deserve the money and profits that they make?”
Products rely on a few simple things, the actual labor going into them, and the organization of that labor. 20 men digging randomly with spoons is a lot of labor, but in fact very little is made, whereas if 3 men are using shovels to dig a trench with 1 man organizing it to lay a pipeline, there is far less labor but the actual product is worth far more. The private property is organized by the owner while the laborers enact the labor. The point is that the business is an agreement between the workers and the owner, the owner organizes their labor and adds most of the value to their work, thus the owner is entitled to most of the profit. Especially in situations where a single owner has accrued massive wealth by the virtue of their company, if an owner can manage to make it so profitable then they are still entitled to all of the profits. One ought to notice that playboys themselves often have very lackluster lifestyles.
I’m on a bit of a roll, so how about another question, “How would people be protected against bank failure without insurance on their deposits?”
Well the answer to that is simple, the banks will be organized slightly differently, or insurance companies will ensure the customers just like any other product is entitled to. But how is everything organized you might be asking? Well, allow me to explain. The insurance company will be entitled to a fee, a fee which is determined based on your choice of bank and the practices from that bank, as well as how much you are insuring under them. The worse the bank’s practices, the higher fee they charge and the lower the percentage they will return to you is. But what about the new organization of bank? Well that’s even more exciting, the bank is organized so that it may not fail, it must be organized so that in case of a severe series of withdrawals, that it may force all people who have taken loans to return those loans to them.
Let’s throw down one more before I have to leave before this turns into a novel, “How would people be protected from attacks without an organized military or even a police force?”
For this single question I have two answers, the first is protection without the police. Private police forces, these police forces are actually better than the current system, because if you don’t like the way your police force is handling your protection, you can easily fire them and instead hire a different force or even start your own. In fact a private police force will have far more accountability, after all if an officer shoots your dog, he can’t say “I feared for my life” and the company he works for will fire his ass to make sure that it doesn’t get out that they hired a psychopath and lose many more prospective customers. But what about the second component: protection without a military? For this I must use a small part of Machiavelli’s one book, The Prince. He states that republics and other freer states are more difficult to dominate, because the people will not submit to an outside force. So there is no reason for another state to be able to move in and expect to retain that land. But what about someone who wants to kill everyone in the area? Quite simply it’s harder to execute an entire population without encountering extreme resistance, especially if the natives are armed with high grade weaponry. There’s not even a reason to fear a nuclear attack, because nuclear weapons are only useful in destroying a state’s will to fight.
Anyway, those are my answers to those questions, if there are any other questions about the answers of an AnCap, don’t hesitate to ask! I love answering questions about this.
Apparently, yes.
Where’d Harambe go?
It’s like they killed him all over again, isn’t it?
I’m sorry, no. There are people who will go “burn the infidels” and set of the nuke for the sole purpose of killing as many of the unbelievers as possible and assuring their own martyrdom.
There have been historical parallels – the organized large state won because it was able to do what was needed to break the will to resist. Case in point, the Boer wars. The British eventually broke the Boers by coralling those who did not fight into concentration camps, depriving those who did fight of support, then making the fighters’ lives untenable in the field. They did not need to kill them all, just make the boot less unappealing than continued privation and suffering.
“those who did not fight ”
AKA those who surrendered.
Can’t win a war by surrendering. Although in the middle east it seems that the custom is to surrender early and then unsurrender when the opposition lets its guard down.
In very few cases will you see the entire population fight back. A lot of people are willing to accept a lot of inconvenience to avoid potential worse outcomes. This is why the “heavily armed ever resisting populace” is as much a fallacy as the “ever victorious organized force”. It’s a matter of to what extreme each is willing to go and to accept in pursuit of victory.
You don’t need an entire population to fight back, only a large enough minority. The US Revolution didn’t have active support of the majority of its settlers (can’t say “population” because the natives weren’t trying to break from the crown).
So the British won in the end in South Africa? Not the Afrikaaners that dominated government?
The British goal was to bring them into the Imperial fold. They did so.
I’m not an expert on South African history, but from my recollection the British granted South Africa independence in the 30’s due to the fact that anti-British sentiment was too popular for them to put down.
Just like the apartheid regime had to end the system, because opposition to maintaining it was too popular to silence
Because a state eventually fell or transformed did not mean the conquest didn’t happen. It’s like saying the Manchus never conquered China because eventually Emperor Puyi was forced from the Dragon Throne 276 years later.
But you’re assuming that establishing political control means that you have defeated dissenters. That was the fallacy that undermined British rule in Ireland
When the Soviet Union fell it was said there were more communists in Berkley than in all of Russia. Dissent need only be silenced to the point they believe themselves in the minority and keep their heads down.
“and keep their heads down.”
Util the opportunity arises, which is what occurred in the former Soviet Union when the politburo tried to overthrow Gorbachov
If you’re looking for a stable state, there never will be one. The best you can get is a metastable one where the factors at play keep it within acceptable margins. New factors will eventuall arise that tip it out of the metastable state and a new balance will eventually arise, or be enforced.
“I’m not an expert on South African history, but from my recollection the British granted South Africa independence in the 30’s due to the fact that anti-British sentiment was
too popularmore costly for them to put down than they were willing to pay.”“Just like the apartheid regime had to end the system, because opposition to maintaining it was
too popularmore costly to silence than they were willing to pay”I think it is more accurate to render it this way. As UCS demonstrated, the British were quite able to subjugate the Afrikaners, as they did in the Boer Wars, but the reason they eventually let them go was it was no longer worth it for them to keep them subjugated. “Will” is an important component to war/domination, as the more powerful side can lose if they lose the will to win/maintain their authority. A similar situation where the domineering party did not lose their will to power would be when the Romans subjugated the Jews. It took crushing quite a few rebellions, but in the end superior resources plus superior tactics plus superior will can win out – definitively.
if there are any other questions about the answers of an AnCap, don’t hesitate to ask! I love answering questions about this.
Personally, I hate it. “Oh yeah, how would X happen in a free society?”. “I don’t know and I don’t care.” never satisfies anyone. I’ll leave that to Walter Block.
Products rely on a few simple things, the actual labor going into them, and the organization of that labor. – I disagree to this and the following paragraph. It is more that just organizing labor. It is labor, capital, and most importantly risk taking
the owner organizes their labor and adds most of the value to their work, thus the owner is entitled to most of the profit – this probably varies a lot from business to business and it is a bit generic. It is organizing labor – you seem fixated on this, but also managing resources and other things. Product ideas and marketing go beyond organizing labor. Basically your labor is sold on the market for the highest bidder. This may lead that bidder to higher or lower profit. The profit is not linked to the “value” of organizing labor but to generally knowing how to allocate resources -including labor – efficiently.
That’s something that is often forgotten — ownership entails a massive amount of risk and personal sacrifice, particularly in the early years of an enterprise. When my Dad left the hospital he was working for and started his own practice, he didn’t take a paycheck home for a couple of years. We lived off of our savings, while most of the income went back into building the business. The practice grew, property was acquired, and when my Dad did start bringing the paychecks home they were far bigger. Many people would not be willing or able to take that risk, and thus prefer getting their paycheck every two weeks without worrying about what it takes to pay him and all other employees regularly.
You could argue that collective ownership means that each owner’s liability is smaller, but then you have the problem of too many cooks stirring the pot. You need a firm direction to get a company moving, and that’s easier with a smaller number of individuals debating option and plotting the course.
Almost ten years ago I went to an attorney for the purpose of forming my first small business entity. One of the things that he said that stuck with me was that a company is like a marriage: with very few exceptions,the more principals involved, the more likely that the enterprise becomes messy and deteriorates.
“ownership entails a massive amount of risk and personal sacrifice, particularly in the early years of an enterprise”
Ha, ha. Check your white privilege.
/Prog
That daycare? You didn’t build that.
He uses the children as laborers. And gets the parents to pay him for the privilege.
One man’s daycare is another man’s sweatshop.
“I’m teach your kids the value of hard work at age 3 — what have you done for them?”
*teaching. The cracking of whips distracted me.
I’m sure my Indian immigrant Dad and his Korean immigrant partner would be convinced by that argument.
The problem of course, with ancaps, minarchists, anarcho-syndicalists – hell – humans is that solutions proposed rely on a certain degree of agreement among all participants – if nothing else, on the meaning of the words being used.
We’re all brutally aware of the left’s current inability to grasp that not everyone wants a democratic socialist paradise, but we have our own failings in that area too. Even assuming everyone in the discussion – the whole of a society – groks the meaning of ‘freedom’ the same way – not everyone wants to be “free”. They just don’t. That’s not a personal failing on their part, it’s like being left-handed. It’s the way you are.
I choose “left handed” deliberately, because it’s possible to train someone whose natural bias is towards left handedness to right handedness – especially if there’s some tangible benefit in doing so – but unless there’s a benefit to that person themselves, we really don’t have any justification to make them change.
It’s the same with freedom. Setting aside the current insanity that says I have a right to your respect – by default – based on nothing other than my demands that you must respect me, one day, we might regain some cultural sanity and be able to talk about what ancaps, minarchists and the whole mishmash of people who embrace the NAP can actually do about people who really do feel that they have a natural right in a civilized society to have a roof over their heads and a guaranteed minimum wage. The NAP and the absolute moral right of self-ownership are logically consistent, but they’re not necessarily the logical answer to the question of how the individual can and should interact with society.
Libertopia will – necessarily – have dissidents. Some of them will be literally intractable, and unable to change, even when they understand why we think the way we do. Unless we can provide a realistic and non-coercive mechanism for accommodating them in a libertarian society, I don’t think there’s a solid case that can be made to create Libertipia.
Dissidents in libertopia are more than welcome to form communes if they are socialists. That’s the beauty of libertopia. People can organize themselves and set whatever rules they want, as long as it’s on their own property and everyone involved is there willingly.
Of course they are free to form their own communes, but that’s no different in spirit to a gun grabber here in CT saying “If you like your guns, move to Arkansas, you whiny bitch!”
This really isn’t (necessarily) about socialism. It would be an issue with any people whose ideology assumed that society has some right to proscribe behaviors we consider to be wrong or unnecessary.
Haven’t you ever had a conversation with people who you discover are ideologically incapable of grasping that might does not equal right? Many people explicitly reject the Golden Rule, and it doesn’t help us if we believe that everyone who does reject it is suffering from some kind of enlightenment deficit.
This is why I also believe that the only way (especially in America) to establish a more libertarian form of government is by influence within the existing political parties. There will never be a “Minarchist Party” – it’s why I think the idea of the “Libertarian Party” is misguided. Minarchism and Libertariansm are political philosophies which can guide or control a party, and in extremis, render the differences between political parties meaningless.
The ascendancy and the promotion of a “Libertarian Party” in the US political arena is misguided in my opinion, because ‘freedom’ is not a political ideology.
Sorry about the length, I didn’t have the time to make it shorter.
Communes with voluntary membership tend to be small and almost always fail in a short period of time. I’m not too worried about a commune being large and successful enough that it would be able to control those who don’t wish to follow it’s rules.
This is why I also believe that the only way (especially in America) to establish a more libertarian form of government is by influence within the existing political parties.
This is exactly right. The Socialist party never won a single meaningful election in the US, yet they have managed to enact most of their agenda into law by co-opting the Democratic party. The best strategy for libertarians would seem to be to try to co-opt the Republican party, rather than cling to a futile 3rd party strategy.
Hollow out the rancid viscera, climb inside, wear the party as a suit.
Hey, it worked for the left!
I think they have a numbers advantage over us. Like an order of magnitude…
but that’s no different in spirit to a gun grabber here in CT saying “If you like your guns, move to Arkansas, you whiny bitch!”
I think it is, though. Saying you’re free to engage in whatever voluntary arrangement you choose is not the same as saying you have to accept a coercive arrangement if you want to live in some society. The people forming communes are free to come and go from the rest of society as they please.
This is going to come over as me being a whiny bitch for real, but I think the problem is that a libertarian society really would be a hell for many individuals. An effective libertarian society is likely to be relatively small, although it might be surrounded by many other effective libertarian societies.
Quick digression:
A friend of mine once tried to explain the mentality of the SA government before apartheid was abolished. The joke relies on knowing some of the personalities involved. P.W. Botha was the President of SA, Pik Botha (no relation) was the Minister of Defense. They were, by all accounts, pretty accurate, stereotypical caricatures of Afrikaaners.
I guess that what I’m getting at here is that even if we could establish Libertopia, constituted ‘properly’, we would have to provide a mechanism for dissidents who didn’t like ‘freedom’ to self-emigrate in order to avoid existing in a ‘hostile’ society.
They don’t need to emigrate. That’s the beauty of the whole thing.
You want to be a communist? You’re free to join a Hutterite commune (or it’s non-Christian equivalent).
Want to be a syndicalist? Work in a worker-owned business chartered along syndicalist lines.
Want to have a nation state protecting you? join a town organized allong Hoppean lines. Ok, so there’s a little migration. But it’s not like anyone will stop them!
Tarran gets it.
The vast majority of people at the moment want to have a nation state protecting them. They (and we) live in societies organized along more-or-less Hoppean lines.
My point is that we live in a world where if America magically turned into Libertopia tomorrow by some magical incident at the ballot box, and some non-zero number of stated went Yellow, a very significant number of the people in those states would still want to live in a Hoppean nation (or local) state. Let’s further assume (reasonably) that they aren’t idiots and realize that they hold a majority which will flip that state back to them at the very next election, if not sooner.
Why would they migrate?
My thesis is that there is a non-nil, and very possibly a very numerous contingent of Americans who just don’t value freedom. Furthermore, they would see no reason to self-migrate into settlements, and since they don’t value freedom on philosophical level, they’re unlikely (as we see every day) to value freedom on a practical level.
The future Libertopia you foresee just isn’t going to come to pass. To the extent it does, will be a long, multi-generational program of social revolution, reversing what the current left has done over decades, with freedom-positive politicians and academics crushing (metaphorically) the propaganda promulgated by radical totalitarians,
I agree with the first part but think there’s a critical missing element in the second part…
First, I am not one of those who think we will fall into freedom. I’ve long argued that it will take committed work over generations to build a culture that values it. And that culture cannot be negatively built (eg shoot every tax collector and soon no taxes will be collected). I have long believed that we have to persuade a critical mass of society to embrace it.
Should we get to that point, enough jurors will refuse to convict, enough elected officials will pander to the culture etc to dramatically reduce the oppression.
But that’s not happening via propaganda. I think it can only happen when they see things they could attain being blocked to them.
I was just watching Marginal University’s lecture on the Pill which kind of gives a great example of this. The laws banning birth-control didn’t fall because of ideology. They didn’t fall because of propaganda. They fell because someone invented the pill and started selling it.
Women entered the workplace and were freed to pursue professions when the law was forced to adapt to that which technology had already made widely desirable.
I think you can’t have a functional ancap society unless you’ve got a system something like Neal Stephenson’s The Diamond Age. There’s a term for it that I always forget, but essentially legal systems that exist apart from physical territory. In essence, rather than being a citizen of the US because I live in Maryland, I might opt to be a citizen of the US so that I could avail myself of the benefits of US legal codes and various protections. If I move to France, I’m still a US citizen and subject (and benefiting from) those laws. If I get into some conflict with another citizen it’s adjudicated according to our shared legal code; if I get into a mix-up with someone from a different group, it’s handled according to deals worked out between the two groups beforehand, or through negotiations between representatives of both groups, or by both parties agreeing to use one or the other (or a third) side as a mediator.
It’s heady stuff and seemingly very different from our current system, but the medieval period had something similar in the sense that local lords, kings, the church, guilds, and village councils all had their own realms of authority that coexisted, and largely depended on everyone’s interest in avoiding chaos.
Haven’t you ever had a conversation with people who you discover are ideologically incapable of grasping that might does not equal right? Many people explicitly reject the Golden Rule, and it doesn’t help us if we believe that everyone who does reject it is suffering from some kind of enlightenment deficit.
This gets to the heart of the matter. Not everyone has the same axioms, and for certain axioms the Golden Rule is quite illogical. “Might makes right” is categorically false, but “might makes reality” is most often true. No system that disregards the failings of man can succeed in any sustainable fashion. Anarchism and communism (and all the other utopianisms) are doomed to failure because they assume humanity will overcome its vices. The reason capitalism has succeeded is because instead of conquering human vices, it rather seeks to bend them to it’s will – “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.” Anarchism cannot succeed unless it can make banditry and warmongering unprofitable, something no proposed system has yet achieved (the successful systems have rather bent these to their own will).
this has been my same argument for many years.
I’m basically agnostic-to-cynical about the LP; i wish it were better, at least ‘not actively damaging the brand’; but i have no interests in it as an actual political force
what i think would really have an impact over time is simply *cultural* change. where more and more people realize that liberty is the root thing needing protection, and increasingly demand it.
Dissidents in libertopia are more than welcome to form communes if they are socialists. That’s the beauty of libertopia. People can organize themselves and set whatever rules they want, as long as it’s on their own property and everyone involved is there willingly.
That’s not really how socialism works, you know.
I get it. But since socialism doesn’t work any way you jigger it, the socialists in my happy land have to allow their socialism to fail under those stipulations.
Private police forces – I am not sure anarchy would be all about private police forces as much as people organizing themselves to protect each other
In fact a private police force will have far more accountability, after all if an officer shoots your dog, he can’t say “I feared for my life” and the company he works for will fire his ass to make sure that it doesn’t get out that they hired a psychopath and lose many more prospective customers. – claim without evidence and a bit wishful thinking
What if my private police and yours do not agree? Arbitration and then?
Gang wars.
Your enforces trying to enforce on their enforcers and vice versa.
Would the gang wars be worse than the state sponsored wars we now enjoy?
the gangs would become states and would end up the same thing.
That’s pretty much how we got the present systems of organization.
“The gang and the government are no different”
And the biggest, strongest gang becomes what is known as “government”.
So Han Dold City?
“Often asking questions like “Why?” and “How about roads?” and “Why is private property not theft?” and a million other questions”
Like “when did you become such a racist?”
No state has ever had a monopoly on violence.
Most states have a monopoly on “legally permitted” violence.
Self defense? Boxing? Rough sex?
Self-defense is only permissible within state-defined parameters, so yes.
Boxing is only permitted with proper licensing and fees to the state gaming comission, so yes. Otherwise it’s brawling/assault/gambling/disturbing the peace.
Rough sex is of course a racist euphemism for rape, so yes again.
Isn’t there a document that says something about how it’s your duty to overthrow an oppressive government? Pretty sure they accepted violent means.
All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper.
Sounds like violence would be accepted.
well no one claims a state ever had a monopoly on violence. Just a monopoly on the decision weather violence is legal
No state has ever had a monopoly on violence.
“Monopoly”, no. “overwhelming advantage”, yes.
No state has ever had a monopoly on violence.
I’ve always understood this as the state has a monopoly on the initiation of aggression.
That leaves room for self-defense and consensual violence, like boxing and whatnot.
Depends on who you are reading. Max Weber thought that states could withhold their sanction from the use of violence by private parties in self defense, if the state so decided. I think Locke would disagree, as the populous would never have given that right up when entering into society from a state of nature, but he never addressed Weber, because Locke was a slacker and also dead.
In principal / from a natural rights perspective, I don’t hold with this. As a normative issue, yeah, its a thing that’s real, as illustrated by the differences in self defense law among the 50 states, historical prohibitions on boxing, etc.
Oops, I mean as a positive issue, not a normative issue.
Well, if you want to talk pure theory, then a state could assert an absolute monopoly on violence. That would be a violation of natural rights, of course (like anyone cares these days).
Different standards on what counts as self-defense don’t really bother me if we are talking about what the attributes of a state are, as these different standards all reflect an underlying principle that self-defense is allowed.
I think the formulation is intended to be more descriptive than normative, as in, states everywhere exhibit this feature (in vary ways).
Additional qualifiers to make it match or at least closely approximate reality:
The state claims a monopoly on the initiation of aggression within the territories and among the people subject to its jurisdiction.
Some states have a stronger claim in practice than others, and sometimes the strength of the claim within the same state varies from place to place and group to group. Sometimes, there are even overlapping claims (dual citizenship, contested territories), but most people and places fall under a single claimant.
Throw in legitimate as another qualifier, too, per other comments.
Its not a monopoly on the violence, its a monopoly on the legitimacy of violence. Or in some conceptions, the legitimacy on only the initiation of violence (which would still make violence in self defense legitimate).
There is a very important distinction distinction between “monopoly on violence” and “monopoly on legitimate violence.” For example, one of them, as you point out, is not real.
^^THIS.
People who are not welcome on my property are going to be asked politely once. After that my persuasion will be less than peaceful.
you may peacefully eject people who are on your property, assuming that you can persuade them to do so.
And when they decline to leave?
You improve both your intellectual/logical justifications and your rhetorical skill.
You also increase the amount of beans, eggs, cauliflower and cabbage in your diet.
This assumes that people’s desire to appropriate my property has anything to do with logic, intellect, or rhetoric. I suspect that these things rarely form the basis for theft.
the people will not submit to an outside force. – many will after a while
So there is no reason for another state to be able to move in and expect to retain that land. – claim ignores history
Quite simply it’s harder to execute an entire population without encountering extreme resistance, especially if the natives are armed with high grade weaponry – you kill enough ther others will submit. there was plenty resistance in Romania in the years after communists came. it did not end well.
Basically lots of wishful thinking imo
Using the example of the United States there is absolutely no way that any nation could successfully subdue the population through an invasion. You have 50 self-sustaining entities with a population awash with guns. The State of Texas, alone, would keep the invading army bogged down for years. California would probably surrender before the invasion even occurred, though
“Houston Resisted. Houston is no more, slaughtered to the last soul. Sacramento capitulated. The people of Sacramento live.”
/Future Khan.
And mass extermination of the City of Houston will only enrage the residents of the once passive City of Nashville
I deliberately signed that “Future Khan” because it was the exact stategy used by Gengis Khan to break the wills of areas he invaded. Eventually people decide the yoke is less weighty than the tombstone.
Often times that is a strategy, rather than a definitive end
History does not have an end. Be ye Tyrant or Libertarian, there is only the process.
Which is the punishment?
Living in Sacramento, obviously.
Its also the strategy Alexander the Great used to conquer the Persian Empire. Its been awhile since I read up on it, but my recollection is that he butchered the first city to resist, and rarely had to fight to take another city.
You think to highly of Houston. More like Lubbock resisted or whatever city in Texas is more republican, this name came to me, not sure it is even a city in Texas
Lubbock is indeed in Texas and is about as blood red as any city can be.
Arlen, TX is more conservative. Not McMainerberry, though
Fort Worth resisted
Lol. Your assessment is quite correct. You probably know more about Texas than the average Californian does. Although in fairness, the suburbs of Houston would probably resist – sloopy would lead the charge.
This is why I couldn’t accept the premise of The Man in the High Castle
It’s far-fetched but I do enjoy the fantasy of alternate history.
True. But they even admitted that there was no way that the Axis could occupy/administrate the Rockies. Which then makes you look at the population of Japan, and the land area west of the Rockies, and the population of Germany and the land area east of the Rockies, and realize that they are also supposed to be able to have the manpower to simultaneously occupy Europe, Africa, and Asia…
It is a bit stretched, but it also relies on the Nazis having nuked DC, enlisted white collaborators in many nations, and exterminated Africa – which is about as plausible a history you could write in order to reach the status quo of the series (never read the book, so I’m basing it on the TV show).
exterminated Africa
As in, the entire continent?
I could believe the Nazis overthrew the colonial governments, but exterminate the populace? The Allies couldn’t even hold on to their colonies after the war. The Nazis could perpetrate small-scale genocides of uncooperative or unpopular minority groups, yes, but mass extermination? Not remotely plausible.
“You have 50 self-sustaining entities”
Illinois is self-sustaining?
Alaska is big enough to count as three entities.
Illinois has food, nuclear power, coal, a little oil and some woods.
Probably go hard for Chicago, but Peoria would survive.
“they may instead enact an effective ban on interaction with the aggressive actor”
This is my only problem with AnCappiness; how do you enforce such a ban without such enforcement itself violating the NAP? Take 3 groups: group 1 engages in predatory practices against groups 2 and 3. 2 and 3 organize a ban on 1, but 3 continues to deal with 2 under the table. 2 only agrees to the ban with 1 to get exclusive trading rights with 3. None of this is to say that such a conundrum justifies the existence of a government, only that violence is sometimes, if not the only, then the most likely recourse. Does 1 consider this double dealing an NAP violation? Do they set their private army upon 3? This is why I consider AnCap to be utopian, eventually one group, even out of sheer malevolence, will conquer the others leading to a de facto government. Unless human nature can change (Marxism’s fatal flaw) a government will always emerge so better to try and place strict limits on it a priori. That doesn’t work (obviously as we can see with the USA) so it’s about holding out as long as possible.
It’s just an endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth mirroring the human condition. There is no such thing as a stable society; one that preserves liberty or otherwise.
Yes, this banning or shunning is my biggest difficulty with the concept.
In a lawless world, if someone does something to my family, they are going to pay with blood. How many people who believe in self-ownership would act differently? I would not want to live in such a society where evil is freely allowed to flourish without being eliminated.
This is a great topic that needs moar discussion.
If I may suggest, for future installments, Stephen Kinsella has not only done a lot of theoretical work in this field, he has also at various times expressed his complete willingness to share his papers and data for dissemination for free with anyone writing on this topic. Grey-beards may recall a post I wrote on IP a year ago that linked to his work.
As for the specific points, going back and forth playing Devil’s Advocate and response can go all day without any sort of satisfactory conclusion. I prefer to think of anarchism not as something immediately achievable on a wide scale with concrete proposals for solving all problems, but rather as an ideal end-state; more of a distant target to aim for and work towards, even if it is never ultimately attained.
I do find the insistence placed upon ancaps of explaining how everything would work in their ideal society to the complete satisfaction of the questioner to be an unfair burden, one that is rightly called out when leftists insist on hearing how the free market will solve all problems before they agree to give it a go (the point being that they can never be satisfied, and will never agree). The best example of this, which I’m afraid I don’t have time to search for and link right now, is one given for shoes. The anarchist writer described a world exactly like ours, the only difference being that all shoes are made by the government. When a child questions his father about why shoes can’t be made privately, the father explains that, how would they ensure that everyone has access to shoes? What if you have unusually large feet – since there wouldn’t be a large market for such things, no business would cater to it as it would not be profitable, etc. It goes on at some length, but the point is that it’s quite impossible to answer every critique of every system, largely because our minds are limited in scope to operating within the systems with which we are familiar. The family in the example couldn’t think of how a free market in shoes would replicate all of the things that they think are “good” under the government system, so they dismiss it and are unable to even envision the free shoe market.
Obviously my brief summary does not do the whole piece justice, so if I get time later today I’ll hunt around and try to find it, then edit the link into this post.
My opinion is that Anarchists are like Socialists in that their vision is predicated on ignoring human nature and the patterns of human behaviour.
A land of no government would be erased pretty quickly, either by the arrival of an outside actor carving away small slices, or the rise of a local warlord that consolidates power over enough to force his will upon the rest.
The tendency is for government to exist, and for it to try to expand it’s own power. The equialibrium point is an eternal crusade to reduce the size and scope of the state.
I respect an anarchist way more though. I wish for my country to move more towards anarchy than towards socialism. I don’t think we will ever get to either, but the closer to anarchy we get, the better off we will be.
Personally, I think anarcho-syndicalism is ridiculous, and is if anything even less realistic in its understanding of human nature, but be circumspect.
A trip to Anarchia has to go via one of those anarcho-whatever territories, and some are nicer routes than others. Getting X% closer to anarchia isn’t necessarily an improvement,
Anarcho-syndicalism is certainly ridiculous, but credit where it is due, that ridiculousness gave us some fantastic Monty Python skits.
I’m going to defend the anarcho-syndicalists. At the very least, they agree with us that the state is the problem. That is a lot more than you can say about the vast majority of all other ideologies on the Left
It’s only ridiculous if you don’t believe that mankind is perfectible.
Given that there are lots of people in the world who do believe this – even if it’s in some inchoate ‘feely’ way – this ridiculous concept could come to pass.
The only reason I’d want a time machine is to travel into the future and see whether anarcho-syndicalism or boring old communism killed more people in the 21st Century.
If mankind is not perfectible, then no social system that relies on it being perfected will ever come to pass.
Sadly, I think anarcho-capitalism is utopian, in the sense that it will require some fundamental changes in human nature.
The nation state wasn’t dropped on us by aliens. We evolved it multiple times from essentially anarchic soil. There’s a reason for that, and that reason hasn’t gone away.
To me, it comes down to the need for a Final Arbiter who can resolve disputes that social pressure cannot resolve. Within a small group with kinship or other ties, disputes are generally resolvable by social pressure without violence. At a certain size, though, social pressure cannot resolve disputes. At that point, the community either divides or disintegrates.
Thus, communities of more than a few hundreds by necessity have a final arbiter to resolve disputes. Enforcing that decision often requires violence, but the community doesn’t divide or disintegrate, at least when the ruler knows to keep the violence down to tolerable levels/within accepted parameters.
And then we arrive at the problem of separate communities that can’t avoid each other, and the disputes between them. This also leads to the “need” for rulers, either as diplomats (to resolve the dispute) or generals (to defend the community).
This is exactly correct. I’d be an Ancap if I thought the range of human preferences varied along a spectrum between, say, me and David Fiedman. Did you ever read The Reality Broach? The idea that a society full of independent risk takers is laughable. The idea that they’d all put their business on hold to risk their own life to fight a war for someone else breaks my suspension of disbelief. RAH’s interest in immigrant communities doing this kind of thing is much more interesting because it involves a selection mechanism.
Socialism could work if everyone was a particular type of socialist (one example).
Except the Kibbutz movement has pretty much fallen apart. I blame it on human nature.
The international system of nation-states is anarchy. So it’s not that anarchy isn’t possible or feasible, it’s just that the circumstances that are required for it to remain a status quo are fairly particular.
1. I am not an an-cap because I don’t believe a stateless society can exist. Nature and warlords abhor a vacuum.
2. While I agree totally with you on created property, what about land? What is your natural law argument for claiming a piece of land? I have my own answer, but I’m not going down that path again today (Yes, the article will happen some day, be patient people). I want to know what your answer is. There is a good discussion on this very topic going on on econlog right now.
Outside of Georgists and socialists it’s rare for anyone to care about the distinction. The division between land and other property only matters from a philosophical point if your philosophy treats labor as a special input. This matters to the socialist because of the labor theory of value along with their need to separate personal from private property, and to the Georgist because of their desire to alleviate societal ills that they blame on unfair monopilization of resources. If your theory only goes as far as you can own anything that you buy from a willing seller, it’s a meaningless distinction.
i disagree. Land is limited. Can’t make more. You can make more of other property.
Untrue. It is merely cost prohibitive to make more land in most cases. It is still cheaper to simply acquire existing land from a willing seller.
So? I don’t care about that distinction. If I buy it from a willing seller, what right does anyone else have to object? I don’t care how the property was created, or if more can be made, only that I want it and someone that owns it wants to sell it.
you not caring does not mean there is no distinction.
I don’t care how the property was created – it wasn’t . which raises questions of ownership
Not to me. I understand that you make that distinction, and that it matters to you. I don’t make that distinction, so it doesn’t matter to me. I don’t care how or if something was created by human hands. You do.
Rob asked what the reasoning is to own land. My answer is that the justification is the same as it is for owning anything else. My reasoning is that the distinction of how something was created and if more can be made is immaterial to wether that thing can be owned and if the ownership can be transferred. I’m aware that plenty of people, like yourself and Rob disagree. We have fundamentally different starting premises. Our axioms are different, so our conclusions will be different. C’est la vie.
Everything is finite. That is the reason ownership exists, decentralized allocation of right to use, modify or dispose of a finite resource.
Just because we can take the finite but abundant resource of hydrocarbons and turn them into plastic widgets does not make the finite nature of those widgets less so.
We take the finite but abundant resource of unutilized land and turn it into farms, homesteads, factories, shopping malls, etc
I am not asking the reason to own land, I am asking how to determine who owns it.
What if the willing seller is a fence?
Personally? I don’t care. That the previous transaction was invalid doesn’t make mine invalid as far as I’m concerned. Each is discreet and atomic. The original owner certainly had a cause against the thief, but I don’t see how I’m responsible for the actions of others.
On this point, I disagree strongly. You should only be able to keep property if you acquired it from the legal owner, especially but not necessarily only if it’s real property. Titles and deeds exist for precisely this reason.
And anyway, what if you conspired with the thief? I’m not sure too many people would be keen on property laundering.
Let’s assume that energy becomes really cheap. So cheap, that the economics of energy use are comparable with the economics of breathing air.
‘Land’ becomes absurdly cheap. It becomes far less expensive to create 3000 cubic meters of underground storage and accommodation than it does to buy a piece of surface land owned by you of dimensions 100×100 meters and raise a building 3 meters high of the same capacity.
The demand for your finite resource just cratered.
well deal with that when we get there
It’s a future where people would be fools to own ‘land’ based on its special status of being finite.
Land is unique, not because it is limited – for all things are – but because it is fundamental. Everything in human endeavors requires land. Want to make shoes? Need land for the farms, factories, roads, employee’s houses, etc. Want food? Need land. Want to seastead? Need land – at least initially. Want to live? Need land. To my knowledge, nothing else is so universally necessary to human endeavors than land.
How about cubic and water, tovarisch?
Fresh water is found on land, or requires land to construct the facilities to extract it, and I don’t know what “cubic” was supposed to be before autocorrect got ahold of it.
I was playing off another comment from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
Land is not the only fundamental resource that humans and hence, meaningful economic activity require, and is thus no more unique than water, energy, air and nutrition, none of which are dependent on the existence of land in the sense of a piece of territory.
I don’t believe there is a natural right to property, but you have a civil right to property. I look at natural rights as those attributes that define a human and that you are born with (speech, association, personal defense, etc.). Enforcing your property rights requires a contract and the establishment of a civil contract.
I look at natural rights as those attributes that define a human and that you are born with (speech, association, personal defense, etc.).
Being territorial and possessive is pretty fundamental to human nature. Hell, its a trait we share with other species. I don’t think any society could exist without recognizing this aspect of human nature and dealing with it. To me, that makes it a “natural” right.
I can enforce my claim on property without a contract. Those exist to minimize conflict over who owns what.
I think most species enforce it by “might makes right”.
So do we. Its just that we rely on the mightiest (the state) to enforce the claims of its subjects to property. It does so out of its own self-interest (the state is served both by minimizing/preventing disputes, and by having any violence it employs be legitimized). States have learned that rules (property and contract law) that minimize conflict and justify the use of force when necessary to resolve disputes are handy tools for maintaining the state itself.
I agree. Hence my argument that there is no natural law right to land.
Mises said that we have to draw a line and acknowledge as of point X, we have property rights that the state enforces.
George says that while land belongs to all, property rights work best and the state enforces it, and the state gets the single land tax to “use for the benefit of all” [which it doesn’t do, but whatever].
But it comes back to their not being any natural law right to it. Either there will be a state or it will be a true case of might makes right.
Which requires a state, of some sort. Which shoots a hole in the whole ancap thing, which is why I asked the question. Without some natural law property rights to land (I distinguish here again, because I see a natural law right to other forms of property), it seems it is either “might makes right” or “the state says so.”
– 1 Kritarchy
That’s government by people who roll natural 20s, right?
Of course. Government should have a natural monopoly on the use of breath weapons.
Repugnant Nihil est metallum.
HM just wants us to lay down under the DICTATORSHIP of the Chromatic Dragon!!!!!!!!!!!
Never said I was an ancap
No, that was why I asked the OP. I was agreeing with you.
now I dunno who this Vincentf0x character is, don’t remember from the comments, but sounds like a damn commie to me
Hey, if you want to get away with eating your babies, you have to get rid of the state.
IIRC, he’s the former presidente of Mexico. ¡Hola Amigo! ¡Viva Selina!
Unless you advocate for tariffs only and that they aren’t “taxes”, I don’t see how it’s possible to say “taxation is theft” and not be some sort of anarchist. Ayn Rand gets around this by calling for “voluntary taxation”, but that seems a cop out. I’d honestly like to hear the response and am open because I really don’t like being out on the fringe.
i disagree with “taxation is theft” . Maybe taxation is extortion would be better. but not theft
And how is extortion not a form of theft? This seems like a lot of semantics
well words have meaning
Wage garnishment and seizure of assets elevate some taxes, in at least some cases, from extortion to outright theft.
A triple negative. I gotta go to bed.
The linguistics professor tells his class, “In languages such a s English, a double negative becomes a positive. However, in languages such as Russian, a double negative remains a negative. But in no language does a double positive become a negative.”
To which a student in the back of the lecture hall replies “Yeah. Right.”
[doesn’t narrow gaze]
I larfed.
I’ll argue taxation is theft all day, because it is. There is no getting around that.
except the single land tax 😀
When I didn’t have a job, I couldn’t care less about income tax, but sales tax was vile.
When I got a job, Income tax became a “serious issue” but I didn’t care about property tax.
Now that I’m a landowner, the evil of taxing mere possession year over year is clear.
sounds rather unprincipled
Perspective influences the way people view the world more than principle.
I have currently gotten to the point where use fees are the only government funding method I can still grudgingly accept in these debates of hypotheticals.
The single land tax is a form of use fee.
You misspelled consumption tax 😉
Tax those with tuberculosis!
Pie saving me from having to say it.
I think you answered your own question. User fees and extremely small tariffs would pay for necessary gov without taxation. No taxation and no anarchy.
What’s the difference between a tariff and an import tax? Or a sales tax?
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but part of the answer can be that one or two of those happen at the border, and the other doesn’t. A reasonable minarchist position is that nations have legitimate power/duty to control their borders, including taxes. This argument holds even when a particular tariff is a terrible economic idea – that’s just separate from the legitimacy. They’re a lot like a user-fee to cross the border. Once you’re “in country”, then to enforce a sales tax the State has to be ready to send armed Revenuers all across the country against her own people.
I considered taking on the an-cap positions back when I was a more hardcore libertarian, but I really don’t think its a sustainable system – a force strong enough will rise up to evolve into a type of government. I think that states are largely a naturally-occurring aspect of human society that is driven by the scarcity of life. You only get 1 life, and as long as that can be held over you as a threat, people will use violence. As long as violence exists, it will be used to concentrate power. Naturally occurring ratios determine that this power will end up in the hands of a few major players.
We can talk all day about how you can have an organized private security protect your life for payment, but in the end I think that one major security firm would ultimately win out among the others through the use of force and bam, a new government is formed.
I know this post is half-assed, but I’m also trying to get some work done so I wanted to just throw up my general thought on this.
Without a population that is willing to jealousy protect their rights, it doesn’t really matter which system is in place. What ultimately holds me up is the amount of success that restrained governments can point to. Terrible living conditions were the norm throughout human history and the *bam* quality of life goes through the roof around 1800. Gotta give credit to the minarchists on that.
I totally agree. I’m all for keeping the government restrained in most areas, but someone has to have the monopoly on initiating force (I think you agree with me on this).
I’m a torn ancap. Reconciling the philosophical and practical arguments is not easy. So I admit that both sides have legitimate points. Sounds weasely, but *shrugs*
Don’t bother reconciling, just cite Goedel and move on.
Its still weasely, but its weasely with a strong math backing.
As was discussed earlier in the week, a functioning minarchist society would still have a lot of active and vocal minarchists. Given that humans constantly seek to elevate themselves, there will always be need for deep scrutiny of public servants, and a constant jihad – if I can use that term ( which I just did, so screw you) – against the growth of the state.
Having said that, I’d like law enforcement to be operated by law enforcement specialists, because specialization is a good thing. So what I’d want in a police commissioner is not a “Top Man”, but a “Best Man” for that job at the time.
I would address the “amount of success that restrained governments point to”. That might be true, or it might be that restrained government was a transitional state between piss-poor, inefficient small government and ubiquitous, panopticon government with unholy powers and hideous strength – in other words, an accidental sweet spot in the evolution of tyranny that just happened to foster technological growth.
When I imagined all police departments being converted into corporations with executives accountable to shadeholder confidence votes, full budgetary transparency, fundraising responsibilities, and revenue generation through voluntary user services fees, well, I think it moved a little.
Police departments operating like a condo association.
Well, I’m a minarchist, so I view the administration of the law to be a legitimate function of government. Of course, how that service is delivered is open to plenty of discussion.
Years ago I saw some piece about this private fire protection service in Georgia (maybe on Stossel?) and that’s right up my alley.
That’s how it was in London 300 years ago.
The fun thing about fire protection – especially down south – was an afternoon I spent in Charleston, SC one summer. They had an urban walk, and one of the highlights was identifying the fire company badges.
If your house caught fire, and they turned up and their badge wasn’t the one on the wall? Unless they had an agreement with the firm who did own that badge, your house would burn down.
Not a good practical model of how public services could be privatized, but a sign of freer, more responsible times.
what happens when all fire departments are privatised
http://www.9-1-1magazine.com/Archives-RDL-SkywalkerFD-9609
What ultimately holds me up is the amount of success that restrained governments can point to.
Which points to the idea that there might be a Laffer-curve type effect at play in governments: too little government is inefficient, too great of government is inefficient, but there is a sweet spot where you have just enough government to foster development without having so much that you hamper development. If this concept has not been named yet, I’m going to claim it: the Gadfly-curve.
You could call it the Goldilocks curve.
https://twitter.com/AlexNowrasteh/status/971796085990744066
Peak CATO. “You are less likely to die from a terrorist attack then from a bear”. So smart and biting.
Oh, wait, you are also less likely to be killed by a cop than literally almost any other method of dying. Ergo, we shouldn’t care about police accountability?
Doing some quick math, it appears that you’re about 475.5 times more likely to die from being attacked by a police officer that by a bear. Obviously, bears are the problem.
“You are less likely to die from a terrorist attack then from a bear”.
If I’m in Montana wilderness, yeah. If I’m in Orlando, then no.
Fuck macro-economists.
Um…there are bears in Orlando.
::Lights the Jesse signal::
Well played.
Are we all booked for Bear Bust 28 in October at The Parliament House?
I want to google, but am at work. 🙁
For when you get home: FOUR DAYS OF FUN IN THE SUN WITH THE BEARS
That line up has a disappointing lack of body hair.
Metrics for state livability: avocados and burly bears with shoulder hairs…
FL is really slipping.
The Parliament House? Does that mean George Clinton is playing?
+ 1 Key West
http://interactive.orlandosentinel.com/bears/index.html
“There have been very, very few injuries caused by bears in Florida,” said James Perran Ross,
“The fact nobody has ever been killed or even hurt on a regular basis is nothing short of amazing.”
Backs up my point anyway.
This is a deeply important number for a purely utilitarian that values every mode of preventable death with the same moral weight. If any such person is born, they will be the first.
I think you are being unnecessarily dyspeptic here. Taking into account the probability of an event is fundamental to formulating an appropriate response to risk. Do you think the creation of a turn-key police state through the PATRIOT Act, the transformation of our airport terminals into the opening of Escape from L.A., and the elimination of 4th Amendment rights for the entire state of N.H. (as its entirety lies within 100 miles from an international border) is some how appropriate to odds akin to winning Powerball?
I completely agree with you.
And I think Cato has a point.
US has had fewer than 20 reported deaths by bear attack in the 2010’s and over 100 deaths by terrorism in that same time span.
So CATO isn’t even correct about the probability.
I see your Machiavelli and raise you well a Machiavelli quote. This is the problem I have when anarcho-capitalists talk about self defense organizations.
The mercenary captains are either capable men or they are not; if they are, you cannot trust them, because they always aspire to their own greatness, either by oppressing you, who are their master, or others contrary to your intentions; but if the captain is not skilful, you are ruined in the usual way.
I haven’t given too much thought into how a totally anarchic society would turn out, because I don’t think it will ever happen. I do think that too much government is the source of many of the curable ills in society. Governments suck at most things they try to do, yet will inevitably exist. Lachowsky’s government would enforce contracts, do national defense, and little else.
A
I like the way you gave yourself a grade at the end of that comment.
And how humble he was to not give himself an ‘A+’, but rather a modest and respectable ‘A’
A Freeman’s A? Like a Gentleman’s C?
I don’t know how that happened, so I have to assume the moderators thought so highly of it that an A was edited in.
A is A.
That’s Mr. A to you.
I’ll just take the opportunity to say, fuck Alan Moore.
Government is like your lawn: it keeps a lot of pests away but it’s only effective if you prune it back every so often.
Speaking of taxes
I loled
Humans are pack animals. There will always be an organization and a hierarchy. Violence will always be the ultimate means of maintaining that hierarchy.
Its important to note that Ancaps aren’t putting forward hierarchy-less or organization-less society. They posit a different system of how those organizations and hierarchy’s are to be formed.
Left-anarchists posit a hierarchy-less society (or at least they delude themselves into believing that, or are telling little white lies about their ultimate aims).
OT but immensely satisfying
https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2018/03/08/connecticut-governor-gets-clowned-dana-loesch-compares-nra-members-terrorists/
I think I could obtain immense satisfaction with Dana Loesch, IKYWIMAIKTYD.
Dana Loesch has some big ass titties.
They are high capacity.
But are they assault titties?
Well, I know I have the thing that goes up.
I view anarcho-capitalism as a deontological moral philosophy rather than a utilitarian political philosophy. The moral philosophy starts with self ownership and the NAP and lays out our silver rule ethics (do NOT do unto others etc.). Of course violations of the NAP will occur, but that does not make them legitimate uses of force.
We all recognize that governments violate natural rights all of the time. That doesn’t invalidate the right or justify government action. Similarly, utilitarian arguments against anarchy do not invalidate the moral position that use of coercive force by whatever governments that arise is illegitimate.
I don’t understand why people get the auctoritas vs potestas arguments when it comes to natural law, but then forget everything they know/believe when it comes to ancap ethics.
When I declare myself an ancap, I’m not saying that we will one day march gloriously into a libertopian stateless future. I’m saying that power exercised without the consent of the governed is morally bankrupt.
I would say that I am philosophically most sympathetic to this point of view. Some taxes and the services rendered are tolerable and you just get on with life. Other purposes, like maintaining the IRS and supplying all of those cretins with payroll, or funding of most foreign adventurism, can be absolutely a tough pill to swallow.
– Bernardo de la Paz, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Heinlein’s best novel IMO.
Rational anarchism has its supporters.
Me, for one.
Count me in.
There is a lot of debate about whether libertarianism or anarcho-capitalism should be treated as a political system or a system of morality. There is no perfection to be found either way. Humans…what are you going to do with them? Some are always going to try to dominate others and some just want to be left alone. I just want to live my life and avoid being fucked with. If someone offers me the opportunity to support a political system that will lead to people getting fucked with less, I will be happy to support it.
In the mean-time, I’m going to live my life as best I can, by my own moral code.
That’s some good journalism, Lou.
That doesn’t even justify a WTF click, it’s just asinine.
This is kind of what modern ‘journalism’ has become: name and shame. That’s why I don’t understand people throwing hissy fits every time the president insults the media. Yes, they are the enemy of the people (at least half of the American people). I don’t know how people can’t believe that after seeing CNN threatening to dox some kid over a meme and then randomly showing-up on some old woman’s lawn because she was part of a Trump online group that supposedly forwarded some meme that was supposedly created by some Russians.
The vast majority of the media is full on Gawker now. Even respectable publications like the WSJ have gotten into the act with the whole Pewdie Pie crap. Journalists, generally speaking, are not good people anymore. They thrive on destroying the lives of usually some random person.
Who gives a shit? They can do whatever the fuck they want with their money.
unless they control heroin-smuggling routes through the golden triangle, i’mma call bullshit on this “opiod fortune” shit. Simply because a company manufactures a widely and legitimately used pharmaceutical doesn’t make them de-facto responsible for the addicts who abuse it, any more than Coca Cola is to blame for the morbidly obese
So completely responsible/prog sipping vitamin water
the alanis morissette-ish irony of the Vitamin Water thing? the stuff in there is significantly worse for your body than HFCS
HFCS is about 50/50% fructose/glucose. your entire body – every cell – burns off glucose calories. it starts to break down immediately on consumption.
fructose is processed 100% by the liver. and crystalline fructose (the sweetener used by these fake-‘healthy’ beverages) is like taking Bas Rutten kicks in the liver
people frequently drink the stuff as a ‘hangover beverage’. combined with tylenol, it adds insult to injury. can lead to liver toxicity.
you don’t really have that problem with your average diet-coke
Who woulda thought? It figures.
This. But regardless, State AGs aren’t going to be less tempted to take their shit.
OT: I literally just had a back injection nooner. Not nearly as good as a real nooner.
From your posts, I had no idea you get injections back there.
It’s international women’s day. Seen Deadpool?
I miss AuH2O.
Sounds like a euphemism for what happens after a Tinder date.
More likely a Grindr date. NTTAWWT.
Plenty of ladies like a pinkie up the pooper too.
Funny, I never had you… pegged… for a guy into that kind of thing. Takes all kinds.
And to comment on the article, Constitution Property Rights Minarchism is my philosophy, I see the anarcho capitalists as just as much dreamers as anarcho communists. Someone will always try to seize power and we need a way to restrain that. But I’m happy to wait to have that argument until that is the last political divide, until then we’re on this crazy train together.
I See anarchism the way Christians see Jesus. Not an achievable goal, but an aspiration.
I see anarchism the way Mr. Plinkett sees Jesus./OMWC approved
Weird
I’m a torn ancap.
Is there a surgical remedy for that?
*this is the sort of substanceless pot-shot that used to drive John into a frothing rage at me
“Fuck you you fucking lying lie face”
– John-ism
Jinx!
Needs more halfwit.
Fuck you you lying sack of shit.
When your rage has developed a good froth, transfer it to the still and turn up the heat on the boiler.
Distilled John rage? Good stuff when mixed with salty ham tears and the essence of orphan’s sighs.
No zesty lamentation of the women?
/scoffs at heathen
I’m on paleo.
I know right
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
It’s a social contract, dontcha know?
As much as I might be rooting for it, I don’t think an ancap society is feasible, even as an “island of sanity” hiding in some quiet corner of the world. My version of minarchism will never come into being, either. It’s not fair to compare communitarianism to poison ivy (not fair to the poison ivy, that is) but they are similar in that they will subsume everything if not constrained. As far as maintaining social order is concerned, I tend toward a somewhat constrained nostalgia for old fashionedf frontier justice. Rather than full time constabulary pestering the citizenry in an attempt to justify their existence, I would prefer voluntary participatory response by some subset of the community, in response to specific case by case antisocial behavior.
You say “lynch mob” I say “ad hoc judiciary”.
::looks over at random Facebook or Twitter thread::
::sweats::
::tugs at own shirt collar::
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy
Its a shame they might have to move to do it, but I think these two men should have no trouble finding alternative employment.
They can be used as breeding studs in my Utopia.
Really?
HAHAHAHA! that’s funny.
Don’t bitch. That’s supposed to be the implicit contract for the cops. Get treated like petty nobility. Wear a sidearm, and fancy shirt, and a shiny badge. Get some free coffee. Have adults tip their cap to you. Have 8 year-olds tell you they want to grow up to be just like you. Then put your body between a psychopath and that 8 year old when the situation calls for it.
Its a good contract. Too many bad cops are reneging on their part. When two of them hold up their end of the bargain, I’ll tip my damn cap to them, and so should you.
God, HBO’s Deadwood was so fucking awesome. Too bad it was so short lived.
On Taxation as Theft:
If you are being offered a service which you may decline to accept, and by doing so will be relieved of the burden of payment, that’s one thing. If you are being extorted at gunpoint for a sum of money for “government services to be named and defined at our discretion at some later date” I’m perfectly content to call that theft. “Public health and safety” taxes which are diverted to paying retired cops to live better than I do are theft.
Veering off into comics.Some of my favorite panels to appear a comic, even if the story wasn’t that great. I much prefer Frank Miller’s interpretation of The Question over Denny O’Neal’s zen philosopher.
I take an incredible amount of delight in how much Alan Moore hates Rorschach, as he was intended to be loathed by the reader and is instead the only fucking person worth rooting for in that whole miserable cast.
Yes, if weren’t for Rorschach I don’t think it would have been successful. As for the Question, it pleases me the Arrowverse producers have been trying to work the character in. Surprisingly though the Arrowverse Green Arrow isn’t too far left when they are trying to jam social issues onto characters it doesn’t fit, and right here they have a character that is a socialist and they kept him quite centrist.
I am not one for hating or deconstructing superheroes, but Dark Knight Strikes Again is so gloriously over-the-top, unrestrained nonsense that I love it to pieces.
Anyone can make Green Arrow go philosophical against The Question (and win, because comic writers). Miller is the only one who drove right through it into magnificent absurdity.
And, because I love it so, the best Question scene from the series in which he was hands-down the best character.
This just in from the Broadwater (Montana) Reporter.
At the last city council meeting the council accepted Mr Henry Burn’s bid of $7.00 to water the trees in town for the coming season. Mr Burn drives around in his ATV with a water tank on a trailer (common in these parts) and waters the trees on Main St.
The Gun-a-Month raffle for February was won by Mr Jerry Solwey. The prize? A Muddy Girl Package Savage .308.
As a minarchist ( I guess) the above pleases me.
You monster. Muddy Girl is never something to be cited approvingly.
eewww! I had to look that up. I’m not a bitter clinger so I had no idea what it was.
Actually pink cammo is a big thing around here. In fact, I think there must be a Rule 34 for cammo.
In an ancap society, when a dispute arises that the various claimants/parties can’t agree to resolve, what happens?
Thunderdome?
WHO RUN ANCAPTOWN?
NO ONE! THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!
Pistols at dawn?
Which, BTW-
It’s a damn national shame that consensual dueling is outlawed in this country.
People would be more polite if you could demand satisfaction.
Or a lot more murderous and swift to offense like Andrew Jackson.
How dare you? Pistols or Swords, sirah?
^Aaron Burr approves.
I think there would be a lot of dueling. It would probably become a business, and proxies would come into play. Then gangs facing off…oh wait, we’re back to having a government.
At the last city council meeting the council accepted Mr Henry Burn’s bid of $7.00 to water the trees in town for the coming season. Mr Burn drives around in his ATV with a water tank on a trailer (common in these parts) and waters the trees on Main St.
Are his licenses and permits in order? Has that water been tested by the EPA? How can he know how much water to feed those trees, unless he has a degree in arboreal sciences from an accredited university?
-concerned citizen
This is Broadwater *not* Galatin County. Here we’d ask if the water was real ‘Murican water.
This is Broadwater *not* Galatin County.
Is Broadwater where about half the town was underwater a few years ago? You’d better be working on your ark, because there’s a shitload of snow in the Yellowstone drainage.
Nah, on the Missouri well upstream of the Yellowstone. We have had a bit of flooding already as ice dams have formed in places.
My grandfather lives up that way. Love visiting out there, hoping to move there at some point in the future.
GW student op-ed..
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10600
As an example of the “effect of conservatives policies firsthand,” Othman cites the homelessness rates in Washington, D.C., even though D.C. is run by both a Democratic mayor and city council, and has never had a Republican mayor.
“GW doesn’t need more dialogue on campus between the right and the left,” he concluded. “We need for conservatives to be called on to re-evaluate their political views and actions.”
Maybe the could be “re-educated”.
“called on” – like compelled, right?
+1 canister of Zyklon B
I re-evaluate my political views every time I come across a new problem, I doubt this student has even evaluated, let alone re-evaluated why they believe what they do.
ohhhhhhhh there’s been a correction:
This post was updated to reflect the following clarification:
Context was added to clarify why the writer connected increased homelessness rates in the District to conservative policies.
okay, let’s hear the reason why…
This might seem like a local government issue, but it falls on the national level since it is on track to worsen because of President Donald Trump. When Trump signed the tax-reform bill into law in December, he weakened the low-income tax credit – the tool used for promoting affordable housing. His administration has also proposed expanding requirements for food stamps, which shows that reducing homelessness across the country is not a priority.
i’m assuming this dumbass meant the LIHTC (low income housing tax credit).
https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/the-impact-of-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-on-lihtc-investments.html
the LIHTC went largely unscathed in the tax reform.
Thanks, Vincentf0x for inspiring a lively discussion! I don’t recall you from Glibs/TOS but appreciate the article.
Don’t recall him?
https://youtu.be/SuEQeBCVoZs
Seconded.
Thanks, Tulpa!
“We need for conservatives to be called on to re-evaluate their political views and actions.”
CONFESS YOUR SINS
This might seem like a local government issue, but it falls on the national level since it is on track to worsen because of President Donald Trump.
Well, duh.