I have had my attention drawn to a post in Defense One (No, not the Defense version of Police One) about the current situation in Afghanistan. Please go read it. If you don’t, you will not necessarily understand some of the points I am going to make. Go on, I’ll wait…
…
Back? Good.
This a familiar theme – “This time for sure.” Surges, drawdowns, you name it. It has all been done. So this is completely the same, right?
“Hey Rocky, watch me pull a victory out of my hat.”
Well…not quite. There are a couple of changes to the rules that will make US forces more effective. The US is bringing in some forces that have been noticeably absent on the Air side of the house. Also, the Afghan National Army (ANA) has been through a fairly tough time that has winnowed out the weakest links, and the Afghan Air Force has come into somewhat useful form. Will this help – sure. Is it enough…probably not.
Why not? As I have previously harped upon… the Pakistani element in Afghanistan’s problems is quite large. Have they received the warning shot (or warning Twitter as the case may be) over the bow needed to get them to slow down helping or tolerating the various insurgent groups? That would take the other Pakistani State apparatuses, most notably the Army, to decide US aid is more important than the ISI’s fixation on Afghanistan. Probably not happening at present. However, there is a new factor coming into play. A big source of money and assistance for the ISI and their insurgent backing came/comes from Saudi Arabian sources. Pakistan is pretty much pals with the Kingdom. With the big shakeup in Saudi Arabia – Prince Mohammed bin Salman seemingly taking the reins and taking steps toward reforms – the money spigot might be turned off. There are two reasons bin Salman might cut off the ISI /insurgents;
1) A desire to concentrate Saudi efforts against Iran, not on some Pashtun border squabbles that yield nothing for Saudi Arabia, and
2) THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF MONEY. Prince Alwaleed bin Talal wasn’t hanging upside down in a posh hotel room because they were shaking a few loose Riyals out of his pockets. Allegedly, a whole bunch of money has been beaten out of, er…recovered from the “corruption crackdown“. The “welfare family living on a lake of oil” is running low on cash, thanks in large part to greater US production. They don’t have lots of money to throw at the Pakistani insurgent machine.
Is that enough to turn the tide? Possibly…maybe even a coin flip of a chance.
HOWEVER, the single most important remaining factor is the Afghans themselves. Are they content to suffer the corruption, at levels that would make a Chicago Alderman blush, that saps their slim resources? Do they want to fight on, or suffer under creepy theological rule again? Do they care enough about “Afghanistan” or are they solely concerned about their home village, district or province? THAT will be the main determinant. That is my greatest fear as well – a fractured nation and a non-cohesive society cannot stand off a determined and foreign supported invasion of phanatiques.
…
I was often asked, when I came home from Iraq, some version of “will they make it”? My reply was always the same – we gave them their chance, it is up to them. Despite my personal feelings for the people and the area, I would say that it is time to say the same for Afghanistan. Maybe with a little bit of (unwilling) Saudi restraint, Pakistani hesitation, US pressure and the Afghan backbone, the whole mess can wind down to the dull background of squabbling and occasional gunfire that was Afghanistan’s past.
I see no evidence that any of this will result in the Afghan’s giving up on being a tribal people. And the first thing tribal people do when they get a leg up on the other tribe is perpetuate the cycle of abuse and violence.
It’s also easy to talk or tweet about pursuing the Taliban into Pakistan – but dealing with the repercussions could be a bit more difficult.
Verdict = Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 17 times, shame on me.
I was going to say the same thing.
Western civilization is completely foreign to them and they don’t want it. This has been quite apparent from our earliest attempts to force western democracy on middle east culture. But sure hasn’t made us reconsider.
Progs: Socialism isn’t working. Prog harder!!!!
Neocons: Foreign intervention isn’t working. Bomb harder!!!!
Two sides of the same madness
The only interesting question is which approach results in more dead?
They had a decently, if poor country, going on in the 1950s and 1960s….then Socialism hit, in the shape of the King’s nephew….and it all went down hill, into the King getting chased out, then civil war, then the Soviets…then the Pakistanis/Saudis… ugh.
This. History shows there’s no desire to make that area a nation, or even one unified culture.
This is just reason 9,546,364,214 why social engineering does not work. Of course, everyone knows this, but those weapons systems have to be used to be able to sell more. Blowing up a bunch of 7th century sheep herders doesn’t carry much repercussion, so…
If those sheepherders live in nuclear armed Pakistan, there might be some repercussions.
So the commanders have a new hope? That just means their’s two more movies before the Empire is defeated, and then some hackneyed writer just replaces them with the First Order in 30 years. It’s an endless war on the outer rim.
*narrows gaze, yet also slow claps*
Yes.
Thanks for the “take,” Swiss! It’s nice having this explained by someone who was there and who has an idea of what’s actually going on.
If a war takes 17 years, you’re doing it wrong.
The Hundred Years War took 116 years.
“Formerly known as “Operation: Quick and Easy”
that sort of medieval shit was basically branding exercises by historians lumping dozens of civil power struggles, succession crises, border conflicts, etc. together. Like a european sengoku jidai.
my point is about modern warfare, and the very narrow objectives possible with use of military force. unless we want to go to war in the NWFP/FATA (we don’t/wont), we’re never going to 100% eliminate the ‘taliban’ (insofar as that’s a brand-name to lump a dozen factions under).
and as long as there is a US military in Afghanistan propping up the govt, they will be weak. the only way they create any sustainable rule is if we leave and they have to step up and defend their own interests.
You can’t fight for US ‘objectives’ with someone else’s armies. If we can’t leave, its because we’re terrified the whole house of cards will collapse the second we pull out.
Its a shitshow and we should have written it off more than a decade ago.
^This^
The Afghan operation should have been about getting Al Qaeda. On day 1, Bush should have gotten the national security team in the Sit Room and simply stated: “If Bin Laden escapes from Tora Bora, you are all fired. I don’t care how many men it takes, get it down right now. Once you can show me his corpse, pull everyone the fuck out of that shit-hole.”
The fact that no one lost their job after that debacle is a disgrace in my book. Whoever decided that we needed to transform Afghanistan into a western democracy should go to the woodchipper*.
*Figuratively
No one wanted to win and no one wanted to turn afghanistan into a western style democracy.
I remember 1/2″ plywood going up to 110 bucks per sheet…if you could get it. Bush, Cheney and company had bought stock in plywood companies months before the rebuilding effort started. That goes for many prominent democrats as well. I saw a list back when but the only democrat names I remember were Pelosi, Schumer and Feinstein. Make of that what you will.
Lost their job? They gave the head of the CIA a fucking Medal after he let 9/11 happen on his watch.
it should have been a raid and nothing but a raid. After the Taliban was chased out, we should have said our farewells, issued stern warnings about killing anyone who ever fucks with us again, and left.
Instead we started shipping in heavy equipment and doing our impression of 1980 Soviets.
Well, we weren’t quite the Soviets. That isn’t a fair comparison at all.
I know, but that was my fist thought when I saw them unloading Srtykers instead of packing up the Airborne troopers.
while i agree we’re not the soviets…
…its possible that the biggest difference between the US and the soviets is that “we can afford to fuck around there indefinitely” with no political cost, where they couldn’t.
I should think we are a wee bit more helpful than killing people in heaps, driving a couple of million out, etc.
We built a lot. The Soviets blew up a lot.
What Gilmore said, and the occupying forces lost anyway.
The war in unwinnable, because it’s not a war of one nation against another, it’s a war of ideas. One way that we could win it is to get the fuck out of there and defend our own borders. It’s not winnable as far as converting these societies into western democracies.
In some ways it is nations against each other – the screwy part is that Pakistan is playing both sides. So you have some elements of the Saudis (and a few other rich Gulf shitballs) working with some elements of Pakistan (ISI, religious leaders) to subvert Afghanistan’s government and put in something they like. Then you have the US and, intermittently, the Pakistani Army, and the Afghan government and a fair part of its people resisting this. If Pakistan, the Saudis and Gulf types cut off the money and recruits….this would spin down to something the Afghans could solve on their own – low level, sporadic fights and tribal squabbling. But that would take the US, Saudis, Gulfies, and everyone else to get out.
“.this would spin down to something the Afghans could solve on their own – low level, sporadic fights and tribal squabbling. But that would take the US, Saudis, Gulfies, and everyone else to get out.”
No doubt. I think that’s the best situation we can hope for.
Agreed. And interesting take on European history. I never thought of it that way.
LOOK AT THAT DORK
*snicker*
It takes like 3 of them put together to equal Swiss
I WAS BUILDING A SCHOOL!
Thanks for your tax dollars.
“Ok. You two assholes get the lumber concession, but I need at least 85 board feet out of 100 to show up on site. If the local squeeze gets too high, come see me. You. You’re on cement because you have the most able-bodied male cousins.”
You…you were there?!!
He was one of the guys that got the lumber concession.
This is why I hate getting a hard 11 in blackjack. If I double down, the next card will be a 4. If I don’t, it’s a king.
That is why I consider gambling “for entertainment purposes only”.
We have the same dealer, apparently. The fucker.
“WATCH: This Queer Feminist Fight Club Wants To ‘Bring Down The Patriarchy.’ It’s Hilarious.
It’s a “queer, feminist, anti-fascist, noise-driven ferocious fight to the death [of the alt-right].””
https://www.dailywire.com/news/26815/watch-queer-feminist-fight-club-wants-bring-down-amanda-prestigiacomo
That trick never works!
Damn it! Now they’ve even made girls wrestling look unattractive. Do they have to ruin every male fantasy?
Tell Q to avert his gaze.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, dear.
Top Row: Will eventually go back to her ex-boyfriend, young adult librarian, dude, Adjunct business writing professor, dude, lithium script ran out, “I’m just here you watch these crazy crackers do their thing.”
Bottom row: Amanda Marcotte cosplayer, thinks she’s 1/32 Cherokee on her mother’s side
Good luck, sugar toots, now make me a sammich.
I read that Wednesday, and I still don’t see the Why in all of it.
What does “victory” look like again?
I have been asking that for 17 years. I still dont have an answer.
More 7-11s…
In Afghanistan.
Appreciate the insight on all this. I’ve been trying to keep up with the Saudi goings on and the impacts of it and the Pakistan angle is one of the more important potential effects. It’s kind of interesting how the US pursing its own best interests by opening up more drilling and improving tech to get at more oil is having these downstream effects in the Mid East that are potentially positive.
It’s as if minding our own business produces its own rewards.
I know, right? Avoiding foreign entanglements blah. blah. blah Must have been some old dead white guys that said that so we can safely ignore it.
Thank you for this, Swiss.
We need more vets coming out and questioning the further occupations of countries that the average US taxpayer should not be on the hook for supporting.
We need more PEOPLE coming out against this…
Many on the right need to hear it from members of the military before they can admit to themselves that they backed sacrificing those beloved warriors for no good reason.
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/02/06/ron-paul-awash-in-active-duty-military-donations
I always point this out to pro-war conservatives.
Why would members of the military be giving so much money to Ron Paul, whom you label as un-American because of his foreign policy position?
No matter how hard core of a trooper you are, when send off to war to die or be maimed without any chance of actually doing what it would take to win so that shit show can end, you sooner than later realize you are better off not being there.
I wouldn’t say “no good reason” – Just didn’t work like thought. That happens to a lot of good ideas, plans, etc. But, when do you say, “that is enough”….that is the hard part for many.
It wasn’t like we are mourning the passing of Germany’s occupation of Poland, 1939-1945.
Fair point. And poorly worded on my part. As I wrote that I was thinking of the later, never-ending part of the war. I do believe the original intent was a “good reason.”
I disagree. If a dipshit like me can see that an occupation would be a waste of time, money, and lives, then surely people who study military history and foreign policy should be able to see this. It was just as obvious with Iraq that it would be a quagmire, that the cost would be at least 10x what was projected, and that we wouldn’t be welcomed as liberators – but “quiet, quiet, the adults are talking” was the response form the so-called thought leaders.
Agreed. this kind of insight is so valuable, because it’s honest, forthright, and actually not partisan.
When I was a wee private, I was asked by the First Sergeant if I was going to pass something (STT, PT test, whatever) the next day. I said I’ll give it the old college try. He got kind of angry look in his face. ‘What do you mean try? If you’re only going to try, you’ve already quit’
Must be a small guy. Those things look awfully cramped.
Maybe he’s a model.
They are as big as planes because they ARE planes,
So if you said “yes” and you failed are you now a liar? If you said “no” and passed are you under-promising and over delivering?
At the time it was “why’s Top fucking with me? That’s right, because I walked into his field of view rather than hiding out on a work detail or in the lockers like the smart joes did”. There is something to it though. If you’re goal is have the enemy negotiate, you’ve already ceded ground.
To clarify, the point of using force against the enemy is to wipe them off the face of this earth. If at some point they start waving a white flag, then take that into account. You’ll never make it if the white flag is the goal itself.
This is why the most horrible thing that happened in recent times is the sanitation of war. Brutal, ugly destructive and horrible war prevents people from doing too much of it. This sanitized shit never ends because you can’t do what it takes to break morale, but plays right into the hands of the most despicable and opportunistic leadership types..
Go back to doing what Rome did to Carthage, and I bet you we get a lot less war.
IOW, why I love ISIS.
Wasn’t WWI called “the war to end all wars” because it supposedly showed how brutal and violent war actually was and would finally shock the conscience of mankind into finally giving up such a thing? People brought picnic baskets to watch the early Civil War battles. Arms and the Man is a cynical comedy about the common notion of valorous war (the main cynic is a Swiss mercenary…). There’s nothing new about warmongers downplaying the costs of war while glamorizing victory.
Saw on imgur earlier: Air Force officer talking to USMC officer (I think). “We don’t mind dropping off marines in hot zones, it’s just getting the lick marks off the windows afterward.”
Another was an Air Force cadet pointing a handgun. “Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, you should, I’m probably going to miss anyway.”
NEEDZ MOAR MUNNYPALLETZ
“Despite my personal feelings”
This links to nothing. Are you saying that Swiss has no feelings?
Huh. I repasted in the link…it works for me.
https://glibertarians.com/2017/02/do-we-owe-anything-to-the-afghan-dead-opportunist-or-brave/
Now the link in the article is working for me. Thanks
Speaking of War
http://www.dw.com/en/us-led-coalition-in-syria-attacks-pro-assad-fighters-100-dead/a-42496528
The coverage of syria has been terrible for years. Its (sort of) understandable since, under Obama, we were mostly pretending we weren’t really doing what we were doing. That charade has been over since at least 2015.
but now we’re directly targeting Assad ‘forces’. Because they fucked up and ‘broke the rules’ that the US and Russia try to impose on someone-else’s civil war.
It would be nice to see someone, somewhere at least admit, “we are at war in Syria”. Somehow we manage to insert ourselves into foreign countries and drop bombs on other people and yet pretend that it means something other than ‘War’.
The definition of war I use with conservatives:
If Cuba did to Florida what we did to Syria, would it be an act of war against the US?
“We are out of here by summer but we are keeping our eyes on you. Any terror training camps will become immediate targets.”
Good post, Swiss.
“To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past.”
This seems like a good time to plug this book: “Fool’s Errand- Time to End the War in Afghanistan” by Scott Horton
This.
I was going to do it earlier, but thought it might be a bit gauche.
Swiss, you should have a read of Horton’s book.
Read that the other day – just after I finished reading A FOOLS ERRAND: Time to End the War in Afghanistan.
I’d always thought the war was fucked up, but the book showed I really had no idea how much. We could have left ten year ago, now or ten years from now with the same results – bloodshed and we won’t like the result.
After reading the article I wanted to believe – just like our guys that will be doing the killing and the dying..
But I can’t get past the “so what?”. Why is that shithole worth of trillions of dollars and even one American’s life. They’ll either make it on their own or not. That’s true now and will be forever.
I was struck in the book by a GI saying he talked to tribesmen that didn’t just know what 9/11 was, they didn’t know what Afghanistan was.
The article did a good job of expressing the hopes of our folks, but not always in a good way.
An AF Col says ““This country has defined my career. This is what I’ve done with my entire adult life,” Colonel, I can feel sorry for you, but making your life worthwhile isn’t a reason the risk my grandchildrens’ lives and bankrupt the country. That sounds harsh I feel for the guy, but….
Weird, a AF Col who isn’t the one who’s going to step on an IED talking about his career. I think that so many career military people have bought into the mantra of “we don’t lose” that they fail to realize that the game was unwinnable from the start. I have no sympathy for this guy because, and I say this as a career military member, fuck your career dude. It doesn’t validate people dying for a cause that was shit from the get-go.
I don’t think it was a “shit” cause – just has gone on too long. Could have been wrapped up by the time I got there in early 2004. And win/lose – not really a win or lose for anyone involved. The original AQ and Talib are all dead. They didn’t win. Many subsequent waves of idiots streaming in have died. They didn’t win. We have been there for a lifetime…while nobody has used the place as a springboard to attack us, the price is waaaaay out of proportion. And the financial backers of the invaders have to ask themselves – “what could we have done with all this money, manpower and effort instead?” The Saudis might be doing that now. The Pakistanis are not yet there. So neither of them can say “we won”.
Nobody “wins”, most of all, the Afghans.
I take the view that the whole pretense for the invasion was flawed. While the Taliban were certainly not good they were not a threat to our national security and it ousting them was a distraction. IMO we should have demanded Bin Laden be turned over to us and freely crossed their boarders and killed whoever we needed to secure his capture or death. Where we completely got off tract was when we decided that Afghanistan could/should be “rebuilt.” That guaranteed we’d be fighting an insurgency until the day we pull out.
https://twitter.com/scotthortonshow/status/961653348003909632
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/world/asia/trump-afghanistan.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=B2B4E4F0A980E3BAC8EE99E8ABA00DCF&gwt=pay
I hold that the President’s instinct is to not intervene further in these wars, as he initially pushed back on the Afghanistan surge. This isn’t because Trump is noble or well informed, but rather because his instincts since the 80’s has been aversion toward free trade deals and international intervention. His mentality is stuck in the post-Vietnam late 70’s and early 80’s.
Every time he has expressed restraint, though, he has eventually capitulated, because he is inherently a weak man with little to no foundation in principle. The opposition to Trump, more than anything, is driven by the fear that he will not continue our ever escalation foreign entanglements.
That and he doesn’t want to be know as the President who “lost” Afghanistan to the Taliban. Right now is a stalemate. Neither side can beat the other.
This. Ego has a lot to do with the continued Afghanistan mission. The ego of politicians, and of generals. Often covered by the argument that a withdrawal and failure in Afghanistan would be a loss for national prestige.
Another thing that struck me from A Fools Errand was how both Obama and Trump were inclined to pull out but both ultimately caved to the generals. The political calculus was more important that even American lives. It’s especially bad because what they both agreed to in the end couldn’t succeed even according to the military. So, lets just keep killing, dying and spending forever.
Yes. The lives of Americans, and particularly foreigners, are subordinate to what is politically expedient. And what is always expedient is appeasing the bipartisan war caucus
Every time he has expressed restraint, though, he has eventually capitulated, because he is inherently a weak man with little to no foundation in principle.
No way. He is neither weak, nor without principal. He’s just operating on a principal that is orthogonal to this issue. Nobody climbs to the top by accident. Not Obama, not GW, not even Carter. He bamboozled his way to more celebrity, more broads, and more political power than almost anyone. And when it comes to his own brand of MAGA, he fights like a hungry dog. He just doesn’t really give a crap about this. So he goes with his instinct but doesn’t really give a fuck if others push back on it.
He trailer trash in a nice suit. He’s objectively wrong about things that make the US great. But he’s not weak.
An AF Col says ““This country has defined my career. This is what I’ve done with my entire adult life,”
Hardly a cause for celebration.
It’s hard to even make a pretense of thinking about the gargantuan quagmire of American “foreign policy”. Nobody in Washington is going to do anything but prolong the agony, in the name of
national honorsunk costs.The Graveyard of Empires will claim another.
There was never really a cohesive vision of what to do with Afghanistan after the Taliban were overthrown, the entire mission’s been on autopilot for almost two decades now. Just look at the constant shifts in policy towards opium production.
One reason is that there is no massive anti-war movement because our modern military doesn’t require a draft. If Washington tried to re-instate a draft, we’d probably be out of Afghanistan as soon as the next Congress was sworn in.
Oh, the US will be overthrown because of …Afghanistan?
The title Graveyard of Empires doesn’t come from the overthrow, it comes from the fact that the empire eventually gives up and fucks off. Britain and Iskandar didn’t ‘lose’ in Afghanistan either.
Well you’d quit too if you got shot in the lung with an arrow and had to marry a local!
OT:
Arn Menconi
Arn Menconi
@ArnMenconi
·
Feb 7
We now have nearly 50 Americans who have signed on to lay in front of the tanks if Trump brings out a Military parade. We are not an empire drifting towards extinction. Will you join us? Here’s the call to action video (link: https://www.facebook.com/arnmenconi/videos/10213691754461738/) facebook.com/arnmenconi/vid…
#TrumpParade #militaryparade
We are not an empire drifting towards extinction.
Notice how they don’t have a problem with ’empire’ they just disagree with the optics that somehow a parade would suggest that we are a collapsing empire.
The alliance of neocons and Leftists since Trump’s election has been very revealing
I don’t think he meant to suggest we’re already an empire, I think he’s an inarticulate dolt.
I think a parade is dumb, because the strongest guy in the room doesn’t need to tell people how tough he is. And Trump apparently got the idea from Bastille Day and the last thing the US should do is emulate the dirty French. But, the Left has gone full-on retard in their opposition. Their points don’t make any sense other than just repeating ‘Drumpf Hitler”.
Amash had the correct point that I think the majority of the country can agree with:
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/961281634199842816
Maybe this is more 4-D Chess? This thought just occurred to me but maybe the parade is just the perfect troll to make all the progtards and their Dem overlords come out and make a big thing of protesting our military. If he’s luck antifa will show up and assault some soldiers. The left comes off looking anti-military and anti-American in a way that the media can’t hide…..just a thought
I don’t doubt that the Left will come out of this looking horrible, because deep down they don’t like the military because they view it as patriarchal and reactionary. They don’t dislike war or American foreign policy, necessarily, they just hate the military.
But, just as I oppose using soldiers as pawns in overseas adventurism I find it distasteful to use them as props to troll political opponents
Oh, I do too….as a military person I detest all forms of show bullshit dog and pony shows. If I was in the DC orbit and forced to march I’d be PISSED. That being said it may be a brilliant if somewhat shitty move by Drumfhilter.
I absolutely loathed parades and their ilk. Still do.
Pass in Review this! *grabs crotch as he marches by reviewing stand*
STEVE SMITH LIKES YOUR SWAGGER.
What kills me is the disconnect leadership has about it’s overall productivity. It’s like none of them ever internally asks; “Is this within the purview of out oaths or enable us to win battles?……no, well then I guess it isn’t worth doing.” Say what you will about our foreign policy in relation to Israel but the IDF gets it….combat effectiveness period, they may walk around looking casual AF but they can all do their damned jobs.
Yeah, they will protest a silly parade, but I haven’t seen any of them protest the various foreign wars in the last 9 years. They love war so much now that they can’t even protest war with that Nazi Putin puppet in the whitehouse.
I don’t think most leftists ever actually hated war, it was just a convenient stick to beat the opposition with. They gave zero shits after Bush was out because it was all about hating Bush, few of them ever gave a fuck about a dead soldier much less a dead Iraqi/afghani. Leftists love violence and always will.
This is really what opened my eyes to how offensive the Left’s belief system really is. During the Iraq War I sided with the Democrats and felt more agreement with the Left because of their opposition to that conflict and the trampling of civil liberties. Then I saw how they allowed all the same things to occur under a Democratic President and not only condoned it, but attacked anyone that criticized them. Only a select few people on the Left are actually anti-war and pro-civil liberties. The vast majority of them don’t give a shit so long as they aren’t being drafted.
In contrast, the people affiliated with the Mises Institute and other anti-war conservatives, like the people affiliated with The American Conservative, have opposed the same wars under both parties. They really are the only anti-war contingent in this country.
Eh, the left would have done it already if it would have got them any points. Might as well go at em gloves off.
If these dummies were really afraid of Trump, if he were really the tyrant he’s made out to be, I doubt that anyone would be volunteering to lie in front of tanks. They will only do stunts like this because they’re privileged first world infants who know that no harm is coming to them.
What irked me was in the original tweet they used the picture of Tank Man.
As if they’re equating themselves to that guy resisting the ChiComs
Yeah, this exactly, these pussies would be nowhere in sight if this were Tiananmen Square. If they’re so brave, they should go to NK and stand up to little rocket man. People there actually get rounded up and put in camps, tortured, and executed. But here, you can act all oppressed, spew idiocy online, make a fool out of yourself in public by flinging your own poo, and nothing happens to you, you go back to your comfy first world life.
Yep, but they may overplay their hand on this one and the media won’t be able to spin it. To everyone right of Antifa they could come off look like the asshats they are. it may be a PR goldmine for team R
I suppose they could just have a few color guards and maybe a couple of battalions walk. No tanks or such. Kind of hard to get too protesty….lying in front of some dudes…walking?
That would be the smart play. Hell, form up ranks composed mostly of women and minorities. Let the leftidiots wail at their preferred groups.
Best case scenario: he dashed this off as a quick thought on Twitter, maybe even gins up a presser with a general. The left goes nuts, because of course they would, come off looking like soldier-hating twats, and Trump drops the matter because mission accomplished.
Of course, this petty shit just gives the left reason to ignore the Mueller investigation revelations, but they’d be doing that anyway.
Did you feel something?
Nope
There is a reason tankers call foot traffic… “crunchies”.
Do US Tankers call the Cav “Donkey Wallopers” too?
I think they call the 19 series guys…. #$%&!
Only 50? I have a disappoint, I wanted to see more snowflakes with tank tracks on them. I don’t want the parade either, but that’s an entirely different matter.
Thanks Swiss.
When I read the Defense One article you linked to, I started thinking about the War on Drugs and how the police celebrate “wins”.
“We just interdicted $X of cocaine/heroin/marijuana/what-have-you! We’re winning!” Pay no attention to all the stuff they didn’t interdict.
Then I got to the section in the Defense One article about targeting the Taliban’s financial and drug network.
You can do some targeting of the bad guys financial networks….you think you are going to stop poppy growing in that part of the world…HA! WRONG.
Hitchens used to make the argument that there was (is?) a global shortage (or short-supply) or narcotics. Thus, the US should buy the opium from the Afghanis. Not sure if that would work?
Agreed. Buy all the opium for 5 years, protect the crops. Then do a land-bank style deal where we give poppy farmers the best year’s worth of money for 10 years. The catch: if they grow opium, it goes to us. If they grow something else, they can sell that for market value and keep the opium money. Anyone who cheats gets their fields burned and salted.
Speaking of war, I listened to Tom Wood’s most recent podcast with Gene Epstein (who hosts the Soho Forums that TOS is always talking about). They were talking about the ‘good, the bad, and the ugly’ of Noam Chomskey. For the most part, they both praised him for his opposition to American foreign policy, but noted how disjointed his anti-state positions were when coupled with his absolute love of state welfare. It was a decent listen
https://twitter.com/ThomasEWoods/status/961381648079163397
Two episodes back, his interview with Ray McGovern was excellent too. The most comprehensive breakdown and analysis of memogate I’ve heard yet.
Tom Woods is a good egg.
Agreed. I listen to him to be educated and informed, I’ve learned most of what I know about libertarian principles from him. I tune into Dave Smith when I need a good cathartic rant.
Yeah, I don’t really learn anything new from Dave Smith and sometime it bugs me when he doesn’t know the name of places and historical events. But, I enjoy his show ‘Part of the Problem’. His long rants are fun. Also, I saw his stand-up and he’s hilarious.
Yep, Dave has the principles down but his show could be greatly improved by being better informed on history. I also get the feeling that he could stand to do a little more pre-show prep. Sometimes the show is so free form it drives me nuts. He brought up the ENB wants to punch Ben Shaprio thing on one show and then went on a 20 minute criminal justice tangent before he actually got around to talking about the tweet…..drives me crazy when he can’t stay on topic.
I am not a military man, but I like to think I have a logical mind, so I count on Swiss/other military Glibs to correct me if I’m off base. Missing from all of these discussions is (what I consider to be) the most relevant question of all: what does victory look like? What is we hope to accomplish? This isn’t a war like WWII where we have a big surrender from a nation-state and sign a treaty declaring the end of the war. It’s as Swiss said; do the locals care about “Afghanistan”, or is this particular geographic area not even a country, just a constellation of tribes and villages in proximity to one another? When are the Taliban defeated, when there are no more car bombs? Just one car bomb a month?
I compare fighting these insurgent/terrorist groups as similar to fighting the Tamil Tigers. That war dragged on for 33 years and only by rounding up their own people into Concentration Camps was the Sri Lankan government able to defeat them. Key difference there was that the Sri Lankan military and central government had a well-defined national vision and was committed to keeping Sri Lanka whole. I’m not so sure about the Afghan government. Plus, we’re basically fighting their war for them; if they want a country, why can’t they do it themselves? We should have cut our losses and left 15 years ago; I see this conflict as utterly pointless with enormous cost and no benefit at all.
That is the crux of the matter. There is no real victory. We’re not will to go full Carthage on the place (thank goodness). All we want to do is get the Taliban to negotiate and then hope the central govt is strong enough to survive when we leave (IOW a Viet Nam re-run).
The tragedy is, the Taliban were willing to surrender early on. All they asked was to be allowed to go back home and be left alone. But we didn’t want to hear it and kept killing them. So, they said “fuck you then, we’ll fight”. All while ignoring what was left of al quida and letting bin Laden get away.
There is no real “Taliban” – the original group that went by that name is all dead. I think that is an umbrella term for the dudes that keep coming in that want to go back to theocracy. If they want the war to end – very easy…stop coming in from Pakistan and attacking. Scum like the Haqqanis want to rule the area, so they won’t quit. I can only hope they slow down a bunch without Gulf money supplying them. But if the Pakistanis keep helping….the war goes on.
Pakistan is always the problem…
so you don’t read my comments at all?^
Just expanding on your excellent point. 🙂
Thanks for the Boobies!
🙂
https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/1243180-21.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&w=600
Very pretty smile
Also, Sri Lanka is an island. There isn’t a land bordering nation that was supporting the Tamil TIgers giving them a sanctuary to train, equip and rest. If India had supported the Tigers, it might have been impossible to eliminate them.
Well… Indira and Rajiv Gandhi gave them some cover for a while and protected their supply lines from southern India. But the Tamil Tigers eventually burned that and every other bridge.
John Derbyshire has a saying “Where there is rubble there is no trouble.” The point being: pull out of Afghanistan. If they – Taliban / Al Qaeda – attacks us, we retaliate with massive force, demolishing training camps, military bases, etc. Repeat as needed.
Will it work? Meh – hard to say but it beats our soldiers getting shot at for such little return. Of course such a policy would have civilian casualties, damage to infrastructure, and may make even more terrorists. I honestly don’t know what the best solution is – but the current one certainly isn’t working all that well.
OT: Florida has Florida Man, Minnesota has Minnesota Trans-teen
I blame Prince
This is a fad like anything else. Kids think it makes them “special” to be genderfluid or whatever. They’ll grow out of it, and damage the credibility of legitimate trans people in the process.
“Not unless we make it irreversible before they change their minds,” says the tolerant left.
I am a hybrid Gorilla-Phoenix!
OT @ Trashy. What happen to preview in Monocle and/or Eyepiece? It went away when I installed Eyepiece. I disabled Eyepiece and enabled Monocle but preview is still gone. I guess the next logical step is to uninstall both and reinstall just Monocle?
I don’t mess with the preview button. It’s probably related to the site change that happened a couple weeks back.
Ahh, gotcha. Thanks.
Good article Swiss. We should pull out of there, Syria and Iraq War 2.5. We have wasted enough treasure and lives for societies that will not transform because of a foreign anti-body wants them to. Any changes they make must be driven by their domestic agendas. I am proud of what the Soldiers I served with over there accomplished but I don’t want even more veterans to be made fighting the unwinnable for the undeserving.
That said if another major 9/11 scale attack is born from any country the President should tell the hosting country to read up on the history of the Roman Army and their conduct of punitive expeditions. The POTUS should get the approval of the Congress and we strike hard and leave quickly. The dazed survivors should be looking around at a sea of empty Morton’s Salt containers while searching for two bricks on top of each other going “We don’t want them back. “.
“That said if another major 9/11 scale attack is born from any country the President should tell the hosting country to read up on the history of the Roman Army and their conduct of punitive expeditions. The POTUS should get the approval of the Congress and we strike hard and leave quickly. ”
This should be our entire ME/terrorism strategy. Redirect some of the resources we’re pouring into these wars to intel (I mean real intel, HUMINT and actionable stuff) in order to head off more attacks against the homeland. If one does squeak through, respond with Sturm und Drang 10x greater than what was used on us, then leave. Even a stubborn dog learns if you whack him on the nose with a newspaper enough times.
Yeah, for the second or third time…”OK, Iraq, over to you!” They have the means to pay for their own efforts. Who knows, maybe they won’t hollow out their Army again? If they do…tough shit for them.
In the end, its really all we can give them.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/deadspin-contributor-thinks-college-conservative-students-should-be-held-under-water-until-they-stop-breathing/?_branch_match_id=408958926804288931
Turning Points USA is a ‘white supremacist organization’ or something according to Deadspin (which apparently is still a sports site, I guess).
I don’t know why this is surprising at all. As they’ve done throughout history, progs would gleefully line up their enemies in front of firing squad. We should be thanking this guy for dispensing with the charade of tolerance and revealing his true murderous tendencies. This is why I have a license plate frame that says MOLON LABE.
I have a 3’x5′ Black flag with MOLON LABE on it, it Goes up on the 4th of July
This is why I have a Mosin Nagant and 500 rounds of 7.62x54r. The rate of fire might be wanting, but the warning shot will deafen any attackers.
Nooooooooo
Seen on Drudge: Jennifer Garner to star in a new Lena Dunham HBO comedy
Mickey Kaus @kausmickey
20h20 hours ago
They’re about to kill Obamacare’s Independent Payment Advisory Board and Vox doesn’t seem to care? All that Wonkbloggery for nothing.
This ought to piss Y’allns right here,
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/02/08/20_billion_hidden_in_the_swamp_feds_redact_255000_salaries.html
Fire is every last one of the redactions.
You are correct. I’m now pissed. The fact that some mid level bureaucrat is driving this pisses me off even more. It seems the less clear the department’s role the more the salaries are redacted.
The fucking swamp is never gonna drain. No one there really wants it to.
I read this earlier and laughed:
Conservatives are about to get hosed on spending, debt, and health care
Ok I’m pissed again, Thanks tundra
😉
I don’t think we’ll see the region stabilize in our lifetime. Afghanistan seems beyond incapable or at least indifferent to coming out of its failed state status.
I reckon it would have to take a strongman first and then see from there.
They have had plenty of strongmen….all they do is kill people and get fought back against.
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