Things are not good in the Land of Lincoln and believe it or not, they’re only getting worse. Illinois already has the lowest credit rating of any state in the union (BBB- according to S&P and BBB3 according to Moody’s), along with having the dubious distinction of being the only state in the union to ever have a credit rating so low. Coupled with this, the State continues to run deficits (with its deficits representing roughly 10% of its total revenues), along with having a backlog of bills in the hundreds of billions (for comparison, the State’s total operating fund revenues total roughly $60 billion), and having several woefully underfunded pension plans (the liabilities are conservatively estimated to total $100 billion). Despite all this, though, recent news suggests that today may be remembered as better times in the State’s history.
The State is now floating an idea to issue $100 billion in new bonds in order to shore-up its pension plans. Essentially, the State is hoping that it can issue taxable debt (pension bonds are not tax exempt) and invest it in stocks and corporate bonds (which are the bulk of the underlying assets in a pension plan) and achieve a return greater than the interest payments on that debt. This is utter insanity.
At the State’s current rating category, the taxable bond interest rate on such debt would be roughly 4%, which is a lazy estimate and assumes that the issuance of such debt would not automatically trigger rating agencies to downgrade the State to ‘junk bond status’ (the State’s BBB- and BBB3 ratings are currently just one step above ‘junk’). More likely than not, the State will have to pay an interest rate well above 4%, particularly since such a large debt issuance would only attract a very small segment of the market (more supply than demand equals higher interest rates for the issuer). But, even assuming a 4% interest rate, the State will have to come up with roughly $4 billion in interest payments each year (again, this is a lazy estimate and does not account for several factors and the interest payment will likely be larger). Remember, the money from this debt issuance is suppose to be invested in its pension plans, therefore even if the returns on this investment exceeds 4% on a yearly basis (which is likely in the near term) that money is just reinvested into the plans- the State cannot access those funds. Additionally, the State is hoping that its interest payments will be less than the annual pension contributions that the State is required to make. At a 4% interest rate (which, again is a very conservative estimate) the interest payments would be slightly less than the required annual pension contributions, however the State will have no flexibility with regards to making these interest payments. With annual pension payments the State has the ability to reduce or not make such payments (which has occurred too often in the past and has resulted in the underfunding of the pension plans), but interest payments cannot be missed. So in order for the State to ensure adequate revenues to make regularly scheduled interest payments it must raise taxes.
The State of Illinois just raised its income tax rate in 2017. The City of Chicago, the State’s largest municipality, has also been on a tax raising spree and will be raising taxes even more going forward. And on a completely unrelated note, I’m sure, while these tax increases have been occurring Cook County (the second most populous county in the country and home to Chicago) has been losing more residents than any county in America; the City of Chicago has been losing residents (more than any other major city in the country), and the State of Illinois has been losing residents (more than any other state in the country). People vote with their feet and they’re leaving the Land of Lincoln.
Not to worry, though, while the State’s financial position spirals out of control Republican governor Bruce Rauner and the Democratic majority in the General Assembly have been focused on the important issues (cosmotarian moment!, because reduce government spending, but not woke spending) What’s the point of bankrupting a State if you can’t approve more spending on culture war issues? Somehow, I don’t think this spending will improve the State’s population decline.
Whether these pension bonds are issued or not, the fact that the State is floating such an idea suggests that cost cutting reform is not being considered. This means that Illinois is irrevocably broken. No change in political leadership, whether in the legislature, or in the executive, can salvage the situation – this problem has long festered under both Republicans and Democrats. This is a tragedy of the State’s own making, more than anything. And though I fully expect Congress to discuss an ‘Illinois bailout’ within the next ten years, this misery should only be borne by the Illinois electorate and the poor decisions that it continued to make in the voting booth. Let this be a lesson to the rest of the country.
There was a party?
“We don’t have longitudinal data on the frequency of ejaculating on a girl’s face or choking among American teenagers …”
https://twitter.com/ENBrown/status/961243953386414080
STEVE SMITH might throw off the curve.
She must be a dynamo in the sack. I’ll give her that
+1 bag of antlers
Hah. Credit where it’s due: that is funny.
Ah look, Illinois is trying to become California, how cute….
Only with bad weather.
My brother, a lifelong Dem who moved to Chicago last year from here in South Florida, has for some reason not been responding my texts about how much of the “increase in salary” he said he would be getting by moving to Chicago was eaten up by state and local taxes (and cost of living, but that doesn’t count here).
I can’t imagine leaving Florida for Chicago just for weather reasons alone….and I don’t even like Florida weather that much (too humid for me).
Chicago strikes me as the worst of all possible worlds for a US locale that isn’t (yet) detroit.
It would never become Detroit. It’s an important hub for transportation: rail, highway, and airport
This is what most Illinois bureaucrats are betting on, but I think that’s a pretty dangerous wager. Rail and highway transportation can be had just about anywhere else in the Midwest these days, and ORD lost its title to busiest airport some time ago.
ORD and Atlanta are always switching places for busiest airport. It’s too hard to divert a whole highway and rail system. If you look at a map of the US railway system most major lines between the coasts pass through Chicago or Atlanta (which is a city that only exists because of rail lines). Highway system followed most major rail lines and therefore the same is true.
Chicago can never become a Detroit, which was always a one note city. It could become a cross between Milwaukee and Cleveland, though.
I didn’t mean to imply it could become another Detroit. Your mention of Cleveland though is funny, because that’s exactly what I was thinking while typing my last comment. My point was that the Illinois political establishment puts waaay too much confidence in Chicago’s future viability as an influential major city.
Agreed. Chicago is less of a financial hub than Charlotte at this point (CBOT is still important but employees very few people at this point in comparison to what it did in the past and there are no major banks located in Chicago anymore). And most of its manufacturing has long gone.
Surprisingly, Milwaukee is a hipster Mecca. Go figure.
SP and I would move there if we had an opportunity.
That’s why I hate Milwaukee now
I wouldn’t be so sure. Detroit was the Arsenal of Freedom and one of the most productive cities in the history of the world. Now it’s Beirut in the ’80s.
The UAW is a whole special kind of cancer that works extra hard at sapping the host and was fully integrated at that show.
But your point stands.
Charles Marohn at strongtowns.org has said it best: there isn’t anything special about Detroit, they are just first.
They are the canary in the coalmine. But lots of other cities are following the exact same path.
And Detroit has the advantage of at least being cheap
I can easily imagine moving to Nome to get away from Florida’s weather
Did he actually move to Chicago proper or to somewhere in the “greater Chicagoland area” which seems to cover places like DeKalb and beyond?
He lives in the city.
Poor guy. You should ask him if he’s gotten any automated speeding tickets in “park safety zones” yet or how he likes bringing bags to the grocery store.
You shouldn’t stop asking. Just keep doing it.
IWhat percentage of the tolls collected from the Tri-State Tollway end up in general state coffers?
None. That is a separate fund and the money is restricted to that fund by law
HAHAaHAHA!
Most highway systems operate like that
In Wisconsin we voted for a constitutional amendment to force all revenue raised for transportation to be spent only on transportation, it still doesn’t work that way.
They wouldn’t even allow us to vote on that here in “The People’s republic of Connecticut”. At least your top men allowed you to hold the delusion that you have a say in how they piss away the money they take from us…
only on paper
money=fungible.
Not necessarily true. It depends on the state, obviously. Each state have different rules governing their highway system. In Illinois that money is absolutely separate from the General Fund. I’ve looked over their finances. They’re good
This is why Illinois has such good roads?
Only *decent* highways
The Interstates are fine. Get off of those….it is a crap shoot. One road can be smooth as glass and easy driving, next one could be Sarajevo in 1995.
There must be a law in Baltimore that funds collected for highway use can NEVER be used on roads. The rest of the state has pretty good roads. In fact, MD is the only state I’ve been to that have pink and green roads. Seriously, pink and green roads.
Same fantasies in NY / NJ. A couple hundred thousand people crossing those bridges and tunnels daily at $5 to $20 a pop. Where that money goes is anyone’s guess.
Meet James “Quarters” Boyle
http://www.mywebtimes.com/news/illinois_ap/former-city-employee-who-stole-quarters-pleads-guilty-in-truck/article_ce75c77f-c694-5949-bbb0-e87acbd1c063.html
This Lincoln fellow need to take better care of his shit. Also the party is just starting for certain definitions of the word
It seems that there are too many opposing factions to ever Cut Spending on any level,
Free shitters
Union People
Copsuckers
War mongers
Makers
Commies
And that’s a short list. All these different interests colliding, We are Fucked
Well maybe spacex will make libertopia on Mars
It’s sad, because it’s true.
Look at Detroit and see the future.
So, will these Chicago emigrants do like others and bring their native ethnic foods to places they move to? Cause I’ve been told tales about glorious Chicago steak and porkchops, but having them requires visiting Chicago, which ick.
Being a tourist in the Loop/Near North Side is not bad. Great food, interesting things to see/do. IMO, people are friendlier than NYC and the Lake is very pretty. The crime is isolated to a few areas that you definitely want to stay away from. Just don’t ever, ever, EVER live there.
It’s been creeping out into the areas you first mentioned lately, much like the old yarn about a bank robber being asked why he robs banks – because that’s where the money is.
The Chicago food exodus has begun, there’s a couple of places here in Cleveland where I can get an Italian Beef sandwich. And the Chicago hot dog is just a selection of toppings. Although, off the top of my head, there’s no good tomato casserole locations in the Cleveland area yet.
The only good thing on Chicago is the Field Museum. Just move that out first and nuke Chicago from space. I’ve never been any place that I hate more than that shithole.
Don’t forget about that deep dish pizza.
*runs off to fire up the popcorn*
If amy glibs for the state have benefited from the evil tax cuts i fully expect you to donate the money to the state government
Is it really a donation when the money belongs to the State to begin with? /Illinois Native
Work has the links thread blocked because category: sex. I don’t know what depravity y’all got up to in there, but the filter was having none of it.
Blame Sugarfree.
What am I, chopped liver?
You can identify however you want. I won’t judge.
I was thinking SF’s blurb about the sorority girl is what triggered his filter.
I identify as meat loaf cooked in a Crock Pot thankyouverymuch.
Instant Pot or GTFO.
You just need to get the server people down to see our family friendly certification. That should get them to remove it.
Good article, Just Say’n, I hereby recind your label as the Nick Gillespie of commentators.
*until next time*
Now I understand why HM wrote that article “7,3440 reasons why we hate Ron”
Hey! That article was awesome.
No complaints from me
But they’ll always have Deep Dish Pizza. So that’s a good thing, right? Hello?! Is this thing on?
I’m with you man. It’s lonely up here at the top.
I’ll be honest. I have relatives in Chicago and there’s a little neighborhood place called Uncle Pete’s that’s just a few blocks from their house and their deep dish is freakin’ delish. I look forward to it every year.
Ill just leave these here….
https://postimg.org/image/3phh58mof/
https://postimg.org/image/dzjw4gpen/
What is that, hotdish?
the second looks like something I cleaned up from my kids’ bed when he puked and didn’t wake up.
That does not look appetizing.
The greatest Chicago food that I have yet to find anywhere else is the ‘Combo’ which is just an Italian beef with an Italian sausage. It is so incredibly unhealthy that you can only find a good one in the neighborhoods of the City.
I should try to order one at the Italian deli around the corner from the office. They have Italian Beef sandwiches, and they sell Italian sausage… they also have something that I’ve been curious about, but haven’t ordered: The Pizza and Sausage:
I never heard of that, but it sounds good
It does sound good, but I’m trying to shrink my waistline now, and I have the feeling that pizza wrapped around sausage may be counterproductive to that goal.
I’m picturing George Wendt giving himself heart punches while discussing da Coach.
And that reminds me of a lot of my friends’ dads growing-up. That accent, like most regional dialects, is almost all gone now though
These euphemisms are getting pretty peninsular.
Wisconsin Dells has Hot Dog Avenue which offers the fabulous “combo”
http://www.dellshotdogavenue.com/menu.php
That’s just another reason to nuke them from space.
What % of population would you say has a goos knowledge of state finances? In romania i’d be surprised if it is 20
Total Population – 50% – Percentage on Welfare/Assistance
Sometimes less than zero.
Here’s the thing I don’t get. What’s the end game? I mean this isn’t something it takes a genius to sit down and figure out. Things obviously aren’t working. And I don’t just mean in a narrow, ideological, sense that “ideas other than mine will end in failure”. I mean even a child can see things are falling apart. What is it they think is going to save them?
If i look rouns these parts politicians they dont care. They hope to stay in power short term and thats it. The people think short term so no issue there. At least in IL they jave the proapect of federal bailout if enough dems get elected nationally
Which I don’t get. Illinois is famous/infamous for its legacy politicians. You would think these power families would think a little more long term. The only thing I can think of is that since they are doing things the way they have always been done they have their heads in the sand not realizing that the facts on the ground have changed.
I know personally 5 people who have left with another couple making their plans to leave. All of them in their prime earning years. I’m stuck as my ex-wife and more importantly my kids are staying.
“Which I don’t get. Illinois is famous/infamous for its legacy politicians. You would think these power families would think a little more long term.”
Actually they have. Unlike the plebes, when shit falls apart, they will be well positioned to reap the rewards of the following chaos. Look at whom got all the money and power after the USSR imploded for example. These politicians figure that they are in the right place to use the office to keep not just their power, but lifestyle. What happens to the rest of us is of no concern to them as they see us as disposable already anyway.
Can’t hurt to have aspirations for higher office, I imagine. Obama did it, why not me? has got to be a refrain for a lot of race hucksters and petty authoritarians.
“What is it they think is going to save them?”
Federal bailout or above average economic growth. I would peg the odds of either at about 20%
Third option is that the rest of the country descends into a similar situation. Then people can’t easily flee – they just accept the slow descent into poverty as the government sucks up evermore of their wealth.
Talk like that is what will finally convince Pennsylvania to wall off the Delaware river.
That cancerous tumor in your Southeast corner is more dangerous than refugees like me.
In my fever dreams, the concrete for the Jersey border wall comes from demolishing Philadelphia.
Makes sense. I propose you trade Philly to NJ in return for Warren and Sussex counties.
What’s the end game?
Suck as much money out of the system as possible, and then retire somewhere else.
This. Chase Field becomes “New Wrigley” when the Cub come to town.
They think they’ll get out before the crash.
This is why we need an “Escape from Chicago” movie.
This is why we need an “Escape from Chicago”
movie.documentary.FTFY
I’d pay theatre prices to see this movie. I wouldn’t even necessarily restrict to matinee tickets either.
Honestly? I imagine they’re just hoping to be able to delay the crash until after they’re dead, or retired to Arizona, whichever comes first.
A law requiring state employees to maintain Illinois residency in order to collect their pensions would warm the cockles of my shriveled libertarian heart.
Or at least tax their pensions
Maybe since the numbers sound made up they are sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming”NA NA NA NA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!”
What’s the end game?
This bond issuance would insulate people with pensions from their financial malfeasance, so it protects People Who Matter.
It shifts the risk of financial malfeasance to bondholders. If Illinois defaults or whatever, some combination of Illinois taxpayers and bondholders get fucked. Those are mostly not People Who Matter.
So, their eternal goal of lining the pockets of People Who Matter at the expense of everyone else is accomplished just by issuing the bonds. When you have succeeded in removing yourself and your cronies from the financial risk of a collapsing state, the end game is someone else’s problem.
http://www.wirepoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Illinois-state-pensions-Overpromised-not-underfunded-Wirepoints-2.6.18.pdf
For those that are interested, a recent study was completed that showed that even if the State received the $100 million necessary to fully fund its pension system the system would still be underfunded in a short time, because the benefits are increasing faster than median income and the rate of inflation.
From the report:
“Promised pension benefits in 2016 were 1,000 percent higher than they were three decades ago”
*billion
They are still vesting new hires with pensions, not 403b’s? That’s fucking nuts.
It’s a fucking racket, and they see so many damned marks out there…
(the liabilities are conservatively estimated to total $100 billion)
Well there’s your problem right there. You need a progressive estimate, not a conservative one.
*puts on magic Bernie glasses that transform breadlines into Social Capital*
A pension liability is just money we owe ourselves. We transfer wealth from the rich to put toward social programs administered by public servants, and the soupçon of pension money they get to keep for themselves is a bonus that percolates out into the community to invigorate non-profits and homeless shelters. Not only is it free money that nobody has to pay for, it’s a reward for being so socially conscious.
*takes off Bernie glasses*
I have a splitting headache.
Oops, meant to add: Illinois is getting richer with all these liabilities!
Time to administer concussion protocol…you keep that up you will have more brain damage than the average NFL running back.
Move to CO JS, everyone else from IL is doing it. I see almost as many IL plates as CA plates these days.
I would not want to live outside of the (post) industrial Midwest. CO is a nice place, but I’m weird. I’d rather live in Iowa or Ohio
Some prefer the majestic beauty of mountains or oceans. Some prefer the pastoral beauty of rolling hills and wide open spaces.
Still seems like New Mexico could benefit from the Blue State Diaspora, but of course, we’re a blue state ourselves and the mouthbreathing idiots in our state legislature are bound and determined to see us hold on to our 48-50th place in every civic metric imaginable.
Reminds me of a joke when I was growing up.
“Q: What’s the best place to live in California? A: Rio Rancho”
And even that may be imperiled with Intel downsizing. One of our biggest manufacturers is getting ready to walk, so of course what is our state doing? Floating expensive sweetheart deals to Tesla and filmmakers.
Don’t forget the Rail Runner!
Total Daily Ridership: ~2500, half of which are drunk homeless guys that fell asleep and just keep riding back and forth between Belen and Santa Fe.
“I see almost as many IL plates as CA plates these days.”
That’s sure sign that CO is the next shithole.
Unfortunately yes.
They’re doing the same thing to NC. They’re like a plague of locusts, they just go from place to place destroying everything is sight. This cannot end well.
Miss Illinois 2017.
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/227/127/3127227/miss-illinois-abby-foster.jpg
Well, thats just not fair.
Ankles are kinda thick
Yeah, just ruined it for me.
When I look at one of these sorts of pictures I always wonder what she will look like in 20 or so years. I do that because of my life experiences with these types.. Time hits harder than an ELE asteroid….
On a long enough timeline everyone’s life expectancy goes to zero.
It ain’t the life expectancy I am worried about Q…
I put this at the end of the last thread so I’m reposting it here:
I apologize if this has already been discussed, but did anyone else watch Altered Carbon on Netflix?
My wife and I watched 4 episodes so far and it does change a lot of the story from the book.
It is still very well done and entertaining.
This review was also entertaining, but I’m not sure she actually watched it.
http://time.com/5128388/altered-carbon-netflix-review/
Netflix?
I need to work on my “chill” 1st.
Haven’t seen it but started watching Electric Dreams on Amazon. About half way through and I’m enjoying it so far.
Electric Dreams isn’t quite Black Mirror but is decent.
The girlfriend and I are 2 episodes in, and we’re both enjoying it so far. Neither of us have read the books, so we were going in clean.
I started watching it this week. I’m not familiar with the book. My initial impression of the show is that its “okay.” I don’t like the lead actor- something about his screams “B-movie” to me. I think its his voice. I really like the visual direction of the show and the premise, though.
I’m only halfway through the 2nd episode and I’ll keep watching to see if it gets better.
I watched 2.5 episodes last night. Meh. Visually, too much like a video game. Plot/structure is bits and pieces of other things stitched together, nothing that made me think, “Wow, that’s original!”
The other Tulpa posted it also.
I’ve watched 2 episodes so far and I’m intrigued, but it’s a bit meh. There is a lot of shit in there that I’m hoping will make more sense later regarding the setting. I will continue watching when time permits.
Chicago.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/45/1b/8f/451b8febcb8809b392e5ba75b72848d1–babe-watch-sporty-girls.jpg
Also Chicago.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GUkT3nhjoAg/UHf0iny5ILI/AAAAAAAAEEg/cjIbu-ACre4/s1600/Jaime+Edmondson+Bears.jpg
Windy City.
https://images-production.global.ssl.fastly.net/uploads/photos/file/207605/anne-v-instagram-cubs-fhm-1.jpg
Nice paint job…
http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/36419281-75/report-oregon-senator-groped-women-at-capitol.html.csp
Idiot(*). He’s been very vocal about small government principles and was probably the least squishy of the state GOP bench. Not surprising that he’d get nailed for stupid shit. Mike Pence is a workplace genius by comparison.
(*) bonus points for past statements praising Democrats as his close friends that merely disagree about policies and can work together to git’er’done. BS. They’re proponents of an evil and immoral philosophy. The only thing you get from close contact is shit on your face and a knife in the back.
Politicians love them some groping.
Now that’s direct. Perhaps you have some literature, or maybe a newsletter, I could subscribe to?
How long is a hug before it becomes a “lingering hug”?
Depend on how deep the hugger’s wallet is.
And/or what his attractiveness integer/penis size is.
When the squirming begins.
No, no, no; you hold the pillow until the squirming *stops*.
OT: Grid Girl saga continues.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-06/formula-one-bans-sexy-grid-girls-over-sjw-objections-grid-girls-hit-back
I swell with pride that the example used for slutty college girls is from my alma mater.
Short version: “feminists” are jealous as hell of women who are able to gain profit from being attractive.
Social justice is about letting fat and ugly chicks pretend they are hawt…
No, social justice is you playing along with the farce.
I posted this a few weeks back when the F1 thing happened. Professional darts did the same thing & some of the girls protested: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-42872257
And the upper middle class lady presenter was absolutely nasty to them.
They have higher value than her on the sexual marketplace so she is biologically programmed to hate them.
I see lots of questions about what pols intend to do about the crisis or what they will do after the crash. Answer: Easy, just look at Venezuela. They hold onto power with an iron grip. If pension checks stop going out and torches and pitchforks show up at their gates the water canons and tear gas comes out. Civil society collapses while the elite loot ever more until they are the richest of the rich. Power and money is all they care about. They couldn’t care less if everyone else crawls off into a ditch and starves to death as long as they keep drinking the blood of virgins out of their Crystal St. Louis.
See Maria Jose Gonzales.
I’m sort of going to enjoy when the city and state government drastically reduce services in order to pay off the unions and the residents go full ape shit. People are mostly indifferent to the unions because Illinois and Chicago somehow are still able to maintain the services that a lot of people enjoy but when the day comes that those services are being shut down and the politicians throw the unions under the bus, it will be a fucking bloodbath.
I believe Ayn Rand wrote a book describing exactly what the end game is.
Just got my Cook County/City of Chicago property tax bill and of course went on a 5 minute libertarian rant. Whenever I complain about it to other people, I usually get remarks like, “That’s the price you have to pay to live in civilization,” or some other nonsense. The high taxes pisses me off enough, but what really gets me going is that it’s going to corrupt assholes, paying off the interest from loans that the city has, and to the pensions.
The best part is that the bureaucrats are having a hard time figuring out why the city’s middle class is shrinking and why folks like my wife and I are planning our great escape.
“That’s the price you have to pay to live in civilization”
Gee, I wasn’t aware that Wyoming (no income tax, rock bottom sales and property tax) was a barbaric land where anything goes. When I visit it seems pretty normal to me, but I guess that’s just the Potemkin facade covering the hordes of feral looters, murderers and rape gangs.
but I guess that’s just the Potemkin facade covering the hordes of feral looters, murderers and rape gangs.
No no no, you misunderstand. The looters, murderers, and rape gangs ARE the signs of civilization. At least I assume that is what a Chicago native would think.
Exactly what services are you getting? For 5k in property tax and 6.5 in sales tax, I get trash, fire, police. What else does a city provide?
Year or month?
Yearly
Nice!
Wait…I had a moment of stupidity. I rescind my “Nice!”
Is that the total of city and county?
Yes.
Yikes that is about twice mine.
My parents live in the country. They pay 1k
My house with 6 acres is $900 a year. Same property here in MD would probably be 10,000. That’s why I will never buy property here. I’m getting out when I retire anyway, or even sooner.
What state is that house in?
Indiana
Oh if only I was paying $5000 a year in property taxes. The services that the city provides is okay but they aren’t exactly stellar.
Only the City’s garbage system is good, but it’s more expensive than anywhere else in the State. You don’t have to recycle and they pick-up just about anything, within reason, for no extra charge. I just put my Christmas tree outside every year and they take it. I’ve also put a kitchen sink, a small table, and chairs outside and they’ve picked it up
The recycling “system” here sucks pimply donkey balls. Our bin hasn’t been emptied in two weeks now and without any note of explanation. If past instances are any indication, this is likely because cans and bottles were left in a bag when thrown into the bin. This apparently causes their sorting machinery to completely choke, so they just don’t pick up bins with contents like that. The neighboring suburbs have had single-sort recycling for decades, but Chicago still hasn’t figured it out.
*Please note that I don’t give a shit about recycling and will just as soon just toss it all in with the rest of the trash if this keeps up.
I just don’t recycle, because they pick up the bin every two weeks or so. The nice thing is they still pick up your garbage even if there are bottles and cans and other things that could be recycled. In some suburbs they won’t pick up your garbage if you have cans or other recyclables in the trash. No joke.
Since we live in a condo unit, the city doesn’t pick up our garbage, but I do remember when I lived at home, the city was always great about picking up the garbage and providing other decent sanitation services.
Christ! I pay about 1/3 of that in an unincorporated area and get the same, minus trash hauling which is private.
$2500/yr on 8 acres, 9% sales tax. That is on the property I live on. Fire, police, ambulance, middling road maintenance.
I have had to deal with the sheriff three times, sterling guys (luck?) each time. Ambulance showed up for my MIL twice inside of five minutes.
I still complain about property tax on principle but feel silly when other people tell me how much they pay in other states.
Oh, and only about 2K in property tax on substantial amount of timber land in another parish.
9% sales tax? That’s disgustingly high, Suthen. Higher than New York even.
It’s OK, he buys everything online from the state next door.
Cuyahoga county (the county Cleveland is in) has a total of 8% sales tax, 5.75% for the state, 2.25% for the county. Just over $3,000 a year for property tax on ~9,000 sq ft. Other then road upkeep (and maybe schools, no kids so…), the services are pretty decent. Bulk trash pickup once a month, water company will auger out tree roots with a phone call and an appointment. And I’m in a city with high property taxes in the Cleveland area.
My wife grew up in Cleveland Heights. The taxes in that community is stupidly high even though the Cleveland Heights-University Heights school district is at best average. But for the price that I paid for my condo in Chicago, I could get a huge house in the neighborhood because Cleveland’s real estate prices are cheap as fuck.
Yeah. Real estate here is cheap. My house is 3 bed/2 bath, half finished basement, ~1,400 sq ft, and it was just over $100k.
Have you been to Coventry yet? That’s where I wound up spending most of my weekends during my misspent youth. And it’s down in the Heights, right around the corner from Little Italy.
As for schools, there’s a couple of suburbs that have really good schools, but higher property taxes to make up for it.
The one good thing about KY is they don’t allow local sales tax. The state does 6% and that is it.
Texas has a similarly high 8.25% sales tax, but that’s a trade-off we take for not having an income tax.
Yes, it is high. Makes up for the low property taxes. Incidentally I live in the parish with the highest property taxes in the state.
My aunt and uncle who live in Olive Branch, MS (which is thirty minutes north of Memphis) were pissing and moaning about their taxes. Once I told them how much I paid in property taxes they stopped and informed me that I am nuts for paying that much.
No one ever calls out these public services in large cities for not realizing the economies of scale they have. They should be able to easily out perform rural or small city public or private services. I know everyone here knows the obvious reasons why they do not, but some really clear examples should be understood by anyone.
A quick thought experiment:
Assumptions:
1) A garbage hauler private or public has to pick up garbage from its customers on a regular basis
2) They have to dispose of the trash in a land fill at a agreed rate
3) They need to purchase capital equipment (trucks), pay direct labor (Gmen), pay indirect staff (managers and logistics experts), and pay for expenses and maintenance
4) Cities have a concentration of population that should greatly reduce the truck miles traveled, labor needed, and the support staff needed per bag of trash collected.
5) Service and quality levels are comparable (not likely)
The cost of direct and indirect labor is the only assumption/variable where a city service like trash collection doesn’t have a clear advantage. In nearly every city, state, or federal service I know of this is the case. These services are the largest percentage of the cities budgets.
If you are running out of money you have two choices cut spending or bring in more revenue. Tax increases can only be digested for so long until you lose your base or your job. How can you cut you expenses? Its clear as day. They claim to have their hands tied by union contracts, pension legacies, etc. But what other choices do they have. Renegotiate your labor contracts, cut labor needed by automation, or replace services by private entities.
Yeah, I’m paying around $3k for the privilege of living in the city proper on a little-bitty lot, and we’re billed by the city for sewer, trash, and water. 5% sales (9% on alcohol). That gets us ambulance, police and allegedly a fire department, although on my side of the bridge I only ever see the local volunteer guys. Sidewalks that are falling apart. Roads that get paved sporadically before an election. Intermittent streetlights. The right to be fined for burning leaves in my yard. Local guys with plows clearing the streets because they’re good guys. Oh, but they put up a bunch of Christmas lights downtown–they’re still up, so that’s value for money–they always pay the ex-mayor’s family landscaping business to hang pots of petunias from the street lights downtown, and there’s a public bus system that is inconvenient as hell. Not that I’m bitter about how that money gets spent.
$750/year for my 10 acres. 5% State sales tax, I think county is 0.5%. State income tax is about 2%
Everything provided except garbage, which is like $30/month for a small dumpster.
Meant to be a reply to Southen. This is country living rates, like his.
Where?!
Glorious (and cold) North Dakota
I’m paying $3500 property tax, $1k car tax, and 6% sales tax. For that, I get roads and emergency services. Utilities are all either private market or private monopoly.
Fuck you, car tax!
I’m kicking out ~$6k/yr in property taxes for the
citysuburb. About double the rate just two streets over but that’s the price ofkeeping the peasants outour highly rated school district, the football stadium, the library/police station that’s located in a prime real estate location on a lake(!).Homes are also about 30-40% higher than the same size house just a few blocks over.
We get snow plowing, including the sidewalks. Free leaf hauling in the autumn. Have to pay for trash service from a private company, but containers aren’t allowed on the curb. Instead the haulers have to run up the driveway, dump the trash into their own container, and then huff it back down to the truck.
And fine particles of smug that permeates the air. Luckily my block is pretty good – lots of engineers, programmers, teachers – but there have been a few I’ve met that scream “I’m a douche salesman” that I want to punch in the throat.
For $2500* in land tax, 8% sales tax, I get road snow clearance, trash, fire and police.
*My plot is 25 feet by 54 feet. So that number is lower than it would be for any of youse guys’ houses.
Something something roadz.
I vaguely remember reading about Jesse Jackson’s son. He was on the city payroll to the tune of upper six figures, city car, city supplied mansion, other miscellaneous perks and yet no one could describe what he actually did. Pre-congress, pre-prison days. I am confident that that was just the tiny tip of a giant shitberg. How many cops/pols/movershakers are engaged in that kind of nepotism to the tune of how many millions? If it weren’t for New Orleans I would say Chicago is the most corrupt city in the US.
I sometimes wonder if the only reason those two cities appear to be the most corrupt is only because of the number of high profile trials and convictions. Grifters elsewhere are better about not getting caught or making sure the police and prosecutions stay bought.
That is possible. Our other cities aren’t even close.
Lafayette – biggest scandal is their intransigence over traffic light camera tickets
Shreveport – Casino money keeps everyone happy
Lake Charles – I got nuthin
Monroe – I got nuthin
Alexandria – City clerk got caught embezzling. They let the hammer down on that
Various small towns – Speed traps
Baton Rouge – We have a commie governor. Thanks asshole voters.
Opelousas – Sheriff got his balls cut for seizing vehicles without charging people…15 years ago
Despite our reputation Louisiana isnt all that bad compared to other places. Lowest property tax in the country, relatively low state income tax, liberal gun laws, best food. It would take a lot to get me to move.
I’d put LA on my own personal short list but I’m a humidity wimp. “Enjoyed” Ft Polk too much in the summer during record temps one year. Late October & winter is it for me there.
Heh. Gustave, every year is a record heat year here. I have been hearing that all of my life but I cant tell the difference. 100+F and humidity above 80%. It is always hot as fuck here July-September. The trade-off is mild winters, in case you snow shovelers were curious.
Mild winters (not even the usual ice storms) and dryer summers around here. Temps will go above 100 but humidity on what feels like a muggy day is nothing like that open air bathtub there. Downside is the progs.
I like having mountains. Good luck finding that in Louisiana.
Y’all are in the sweet spot food-wise.
$3500 a year on a $300K home sitting on a bit more than an acre in semi-rural Iowa.
Never accept this bullshit. There are plenty of solvent and fiscally responsible jurisdictions.
The thing is that they are all temporary and insanity can happen quickly.
When I bought the house I now still own some 18 years ago I paid a little over $800 a year in property taxes for a nice place on 2 1/2 acres, in a great neighborhood with and awesome school system. For the first 10 years things were not bad at all, and I was still paying less than $1400 a year in taxes on my home. The crazy shit started about 8 years ago. Now I am paying close to $6K for the same place (with it going up in double digits every year), have an under-performing school system my kid graduated some 4 years ago from, and in general get less value for that big ticket I now pay than I did when I paid $800 a year. I also pay about $1K for my vehicle tax, have a hefty 6% sales tax (with a slew of other hidden sub taxes), and I am constantly told I should pay more and get less. All because one prog selectmen dumped some $200 million in long term debt on the town in a 6 year period. That guy is long gone, with most of that money, while my proggy townies all complain, not to me mind you, as I tell them they are at fault.
There is a certain subset of voters who will take the “we need more money” bait hook, line, and sinker every time. Some of them of course won’t end up facing much of that cost directly, thinking it will all be paid by “the rich”. But many of them do indeed end up paying more for it. The real problem is that they never seem to demand results whether relative to before the tax hike or relative to other jurisdictions. There is no rationality to it whatsoever. It’s all just unquestioned belief.
“The real problem is that they never seem to demand results whether relative to before the tax hike or relative to other jurisdictions.”
It’s often worse: these fuckers actually vote for more of the same when the same douchebag that just fucked them over demands to be given more power because they will fix the problem they created in the first place. And when they get ass raped again, they are totes surprised…
What is the definition of insanity again?
I don’t really think that’s the point that Ed’s acquaintances were making at all. When you point out that less spendy jurisdictions spend less and are more fiscally solvent, out comes the plugged ears and “la la la la!”
One of the most telling things for me, not that I wasn’t already a libertarian, was when I got my own place. My property tax rate is about half of what my parents’ is (we live in the same state, but in different counties; my local income tax rate is also less, but more than half theirs). I don’t live under a municipality so I only pay tax to the county (and state, and feds) whereas my parents have to pay taxes to the city and county governments. But, I get the same amenities they do (in fact, my trash service is a little better). The police are no less responsive, despite not being “local”. The schools might not be as good, but that’s a county not municipal responsibility and is not a function of spending anyway. Some of the roads aren’t in the best shape, I will grant, but they do get maintained and (eventually) repaved. As far as I can tell, the portion of my parents’ property tax that goes to their city is basically money being thrown down a pit. They get absolutely nothing for it. Yet, point out that your taxes are too high or the money’s being wasted, and people will say the same nonsense about “the price of civilization”. Bullshit. I don’t live in a god-forsaken hellhole, and incorporation would add absolutely no value to me to offset the increased taxes.
We don’t have any unincorporated areas in NY that I know of.
Maryland is in some ways an interesting state. Baltimore City is its own county-level entity (there is Baltimore County which surrounds, but excludes, the City itself). Some counties (Frederick, Montgomery, Prince George’s) have many incorporated areas as well as unincorporated ones. Some counties have no municipalities at all (Baltimore, Howard), while some (Harford, Anne Arundel) have very few incorporated areas, and those tend to be 150+ years old.
3300 a year on a small lot in the limits of a smallish Iowa town for a roughly 180-200k house.
The city owns (power,water,sewer) or contracts out (solid waste) all residential utilities except natural gas. Schools are pretty decent (Iowa schools in general are pretty decent). For a small town the library is not too bad either. Mostly volunteer fire department (like 1/4 are permanent staff) that also serves the surrounding rural areas.
They seem to run things in a pretty ideal and so far as I can tell cost conscious manner.
About the only idiocy I can think of is that they are tight with liquor licenses (don’t want a bunch of taverns) and they want to build a new municipal airport jointly with a couple other local governments because our current airport just slightly too short for the three corporate jets based at the current airport to take off with a full load of fuel, which basically means the owners of those three jets are pushing hard for it.
Just outside of town its about 1/2 to 2/3rd as much for the tax.
I used to live in a similar sized house in an unincorporated area of the far Chicago suburbs. 3600 a year when I sold and we got basically sheriff, fire, parks, and library.
“In the long run we’re all dead.”
If you can come up with a better punchline than “I’ll keep an eye out for you!”, Id like to hear it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-found-holding-her-eyeball-outside-carolina-church-073223835.html
Interesting story, but considering our family friendly rating, I’d say the optics of posting that here aren’t good.
Don’t worry, it’s just an optical illusion.
I see what you did there.
It was truly visionary.
Eye can’t believe you guys.
Iris to the occasion.
The puns are coming fast now. Blink and you’ll miss them.
I cannot imagine how these puns could be any cornea.
Then you have been a lax pupil.
That was a touch short-sighted.
“Hey! My eyes are down there!”
ALOL!
^Winner.
I actually want the State to issue these bonds, so that we can cut to the chase and just bring on the misery. We need the misery in order to get past this and get a fresh start. Right now the State is just prolonging the crisis. If they issue these bonds the consequences from the bond market will be severe and will speed along the State’s collapse.
For the past year or so, I’ve thought about moving to Ohio (where my wife is from) but for some reason don’t have any desire to leave this shithole of a state. I know that if the state does financially collapse, productive people like you and I will somehow get screwed but at the same time, we need to kill this shit fast.
Family is what keeps me here. Both of our families live in the City or suburbs. The only idea that I thought of was moving to northwest Indiana and commuting to work. It still puts us about an hour away from family, though
An hour is not a serious obstacle to visiting.
It does cut down on the random “oh, by the way could you…” requests.
An hour away sounds perfect. Too far for them to pop-in during the week, but close enough to visit regularly.
That’s the same with me. If my parents or my sister wasn’t here, I wouldn’t hesitate to sell my condo and find a job elsewhere.
Maybe you should sell that condo while the prices are still relatively high.
This. The real estate bubble is going to pop soon. I think you will really start to see it this summer.
I really do like living in Indiana (except for the shitty weather this time of year). I grew up in the extreme northwest of the state, which is solid Democrat, but now I live a little east in solid Team Red country. It’s a nice combination of rural and suburban. People own a lot of guns and the kids still sing Christmas songs at school. I’m also about an hour from Chicago (not during rush hour).
Where in Indiana is this? I’ve looked into Chesterton
Of course you have.
Oh yeah, I didn’t even realize that
The southern part of Valparaiso. Chesterton is pretty nice, but a little more expensive. Both are in Porter county, which has taxes much lower than Lake County. Most of us consider Lake County just an extension of Illinois.
Valparaiso has a university and a nice downtown. If you go south past my house it’s a lot of farm land.
Chesterton does have the advantage of being closer to the train and two highways, if you needed to commute.
I can forsee a day in the not-too-distant future where I’m in a similar boat due to the rapidly progressing progification of Virginia.
Ha! Virginia was going to be my compromise with the wife on an escape from Maryland, but I see I’m a little late on that strategy.
Most likely. I’m gonna have to move to Wyoming or Oklahoma or something eventually, I can feel it.
I think it will be Arizona for me. I hate cold and precipitation.
#metoo
It’s a shame, I really like Suffolk, but I don’t see it getting better.
You strike me as a Gary sort of guy. Hope you’re well-armed.
Empty nesters in 18 months’ time. Such family as there is in the area are able to be jettisoned.
Hopefully, CT won’t introduce their ‘escapee tax’ before then.
In NJ the game is to sell your house and move into a rental property (briefly).
I was rather hoping to use it as an excuse to erase my identity, like I did when I came to the US.
The Foreign Legion wouldn’t have you?
How does this work?
The “exit tax” is collected at closing – if you own multiple homes and are leaving the state.
If you close on the sale and your new address is a rental in NJ, no tax.
If you find yourself somewhere in the (937), we can p̵l̵a̵n̵ ̵a̵n̵ ̵i̵n̵s̵u̵r̵r̵e̵c̵t̵i̵o̵n̵ have a Buckeye Meetup.
Borrowing money to drop into pension fund investments. Is Bernie Madoff the state Treasurer?
Did I understand you right that the State’s plan is basically to issue debt at 4% and gamble it away in the stock market?
And the corporate bond market (the underlying assets in the pension fund are largely stocks and corporate bonds)
Issuing junk bonds to buy junk bonds seems like an 80s strategy.
“I know it sounds dumb, but the old bonds are so cheap, it’d be idiotic not to buy them up. We just need to find some cash to be able to pay for them!”
Highway funding: up here in Wisconsin they made a highway near me from two to four lanes almost 20 years ago. West of me they did road surface tests on new kinds of asphalt. The highway there is still in really good shape and doesn’t require much maintenance. Going east from me it was all done in traditional pavement, and the road is cracked and pocked. Every summer a new spot literally explodes from temperature changes. Since they ran these tests they have been overhauling a lot of other highways in the state and, I’m no expert, the stuff they’re doing it all in doesn’t look like the test surfaces that seem to hold up so well, it looks more like the shitty stuff to the east. I’ve never heard the results of these tests, if any of these new surfaces were adopted and if not why. I can’t seem to find anything on it at all.
Those test surfaces that don’t need constant maintenance [crews] and rebuild project [managers]? Can’t imagine why not…
Those fights usually happen in the backroom but once the unions in Massachusetts came out to openly fight against new polymer pavement on the state highways. No excuse other than they would lose dues paying members.
http://asphaltmagazine.com/the-benefits-of-modified-asphalts/
In Texas the construction firms hired for highways have to maintain the roads for no additional charge for a set time after completion (most commonly 2 years). I’d imagine a system like this could cut down on the use of sub-par asphalt, especially in an area like Wisconsin that has more wear and tear since you guys actually have seasons up there.
I am currently listening to Hardcore History’s Wrath of the Khans podcast and was googling different facts about the Mongolian conquest. I found these two amazing articles:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1350272/Genghis-Khan-killed-people-forests-grew-carbon-levels-dropped.html
https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/genghis-khan-environment-26052014/
I guess if killing 40 million or so people is the price we have to pay for Mother Earth it’s worth it.
As long as we get to choose which 40 million….
40 Million isn’t enough to finish my list. I guess I’m trying to solve too many problems on a global scale. But carbon dioxide isn’t one of them.
Well, 40 million was 10% of earth’s population then. So this time we’d have to kill about 750 million (or so).
*googles Chicago metro area population*
Hey!
I *knew* Sam Jackson’s character in Kingsman was the protagonist!
The planet has a fever . . .
Yes. That has long been the Environmentalist Malthusian end-game. If the five billion people least like them would be kind enough to drop dead without reproducing, that would be great. In the meanwhile, they’ll start taking steps to help that along.
Submitted without comment or analysis.
How the Dallas SWAT team cornered and killed the July 7 police shooter
Boo hoo. Had to actually do police work rather than play Spetznaz on taxpayers’ dime.
If I hit you baby, it’s because you deserve it.
Forgetting key equipment and unable to handle basic tasks. Highly trained indeed. I wouldn’t be surprised if the truth was he consciously left his armor in the car because he didn’t expect to need it. Just more weight to carry.
The paramedics had him. Why would cops leave the scene of an active shooter?
5.45×39 instead of 7.62×39?
Why would they leave?
The answer to your question lies herein. (SFW – with headphones)
Maybe – maybe – you could blame that little gem on the reporter. If every battle rifle is an AK-47, then an AK-74 is what? “27 more” That’s gotta mean it’s about 50% more powerful, doesn’t it?
There’s more doozies. Outrage at being asked to give up weapons to investigators and getting a picture taken with their name & badge number. How about spending 30 minutes of training going over what happens after a shooting prior?
Also, if the cops are that close, how about throwing CS at him, flash bangs, or even just plain smoke? That shit is uncomfortable as fuck in confined spaces.
If you think about it as an exercise in cop logic, you’d want the guy dead, but wouldn’t want the notoriety, so a convenient fatality is a feature, not a bug.
Gordon suspected that every other driver on these streets had an outstanding warrant — for a suspended license, for failing to pay a fine. To him, stopping them was just harassment, the very reason so many black citizens hated cops.
Racist much?
Well, I was laughing too.
Oh goody. We’re right on topic.
There’s been a 2 year Senate Budget agreement reached. $300 billion in new spending. $160 billion being an increased budget for the Pentagon, because of course we need that.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/07/politics/senate-announces-deal-budget-caps-agreement/index.html
Nothing left to cut!
This is, by the way, $300 billion OVER the current spending for this year and next (from the last time there was actually a budget). It’s $300 billion in new spending on top of all the increases that are already accounted for.
Does anyone else remember when the Republicans were deriding the Democrat’s inability to pass a budget?
I guess I should have read, I assumed it was another short term spending plan.
300 Billion, really?!?!
With these guys it is always but we ONLY spent an extra $300 billion! The projection was for us to automatically spend another $450 billion and we cut that by 1/3. Fiscally conservative!
And the usual idiots will go, hey they spent less, that’s good…..
As far as I can tell, this is $300 billion on top of the $450 billion already committed.
Well then that makes it all better….
Oh FFS…
Reason #1,340,159,134 why bipartisanship is an idiotic ideal to pursue.
Bipartisanship is the two parties agreeing to ass-fuck the rest of us. The negotiations are only about whether there will be a reach-around and who will provide it.
Every time I see Schumer and those moronic fucking reading glasses I want to put my fist through the screen.
FUCK YOU FEDERAL CONGRESS!!!!!
*shakes fist at sky*
It’s an old trick. One party wants to spend “less” on welfare but more on defense. The other party wants to spend “less” on defense but more on welfare. They compromise on spending more on everything.
https://twitter.com/KimStrassel/status/961273835071787008
Kim Strassel with the WSJ makes a good point: why isn’t the media discussing the fact that the accusations in the Nunes memo have been all but confirmed by the Senate’s referral for criminal charges against Christopher Steele.
I’m starting to think the conspiracy theories are absolutely right. There is no other reason why the media would go completely black on this stuff unless it completely discredited the Russia fever dreams
I haven’t actually heard anyone say any of it it wrong and point out what’s wrong and why it’s wrong. All I’ve heard is ‘nothing burger’, ‘lies!’. But the media and democrats have been in this mode for more than a year now. No substance, only deflections, obfuscation, avoidance.
Both existing narratives, Trump colluded with Russians and the FBI/Obama admin spied on the Trump campaign, are conspiracy theories by definition. It’s just one of them has a lot of corroborating evidence and the other one doesn’t.
Without making any assumptions or drawing any conclusions I think we can say with a high degree of certainty:
– The Obama Admin did spy on Trump
– It did so under the auspices of a FISA warrant issued primarily on the basis of a dossier supplied by a British ex-spook
– Said dossier was bought and paid for by the DNC through intermediaries
– At least some of the information in the dossier is flat wrong (whatshisface that was supposedly in Moscow at a particular time but couldn’t have been, I forget who and what circumstances), calling into question the entirety of the dossier itself
– Said British ex-spook is now being referred for criminal charges
So we have a group using the surveillance powers of the State to spy on an opposition candidate during a campaign on the basis of a dossier that part of which is false and the rest of which is so fantastic as to strain credulity to the limit. No conspiracy theory needed. It’s criminal, police state behavior, and the media’s silence on the matter makes all the more damning given the context of the media’s actions the past 10 years.
the context of the media’s actions the past 10 years.
Covering for the Democrats? I’d say it’s just more of the same.
You know the best thing that could come out of this? I believe they’ve reopened the investigation into Hillary’s dirty dealings while at the state dept and there’s no one left to protect her now. If she goes to prison, justice will have been served. Even if she’s convicted and Trump pardons her as an act of mercy, I’d be satisfied, because then we will never have to see that hag running for office again.
Hah!
we will never have to see that hag running for office again
What on earth gives you the idea that Clinton has any shame?
Even at this point she couldn’t win dogcatcher anywhere in the country. I do wish she would run though…please, please run Hillary. Sink another Billion dollars of other people’s money into humiliating yourself.
You left out a small but important detail: None of that information was given to the FISA court. The FBI got the warrant on behalf of the Hillary Campaign by deliberately deceiving the court.
https://twitter.com/SkyCorridors/status/961295614649696256
Would Naomi Brockwell
I find the glasses in that particular shot annoying, but I concur with you.
It adds to the librarian vibe. She’s probably the best looking woman within libertarian circles. And the fact that I have noticed that and mentioned it is probably a big reason why she doesn’t have much competition
So, what was in the Democrat’s memo? I heard it was going to be huge, but I don’t see any coverage of it.
Dunno, but if it were huge you can bet they’d be ejaculating it all over our collective faces.
I read a Wile E. Coyote — Supergenius version that the Democrats intentionally put actually classified information “sources and methods” into pretty much every paragraph of the memo to poison pill it. I don’t know how this helps them as it would be DOJ saying it shouldn’t go out. There was already a unanimous vote by the committee to allow release. The source of that was a Republican fanboi columnist at the WaTimes, so I take it with a grain of salt.
Has it actually been released yet? Last I heard, It’s on Trump’s desk (so to speak). Until the White House agrees to declassify it, it won’t be released.
No idea, but I did hear it’s already been released and that no Republicans were even trying to stop it. And now no one is talking about it.
Everything says the House “voted to release” it but what that really means is that they voted to recommend the President declassify it. While they may be able to vote to release it of their own accord, that might raise separation of powers questions, and it might result in a “fun” situation whereby the executive branch considers it still classified but anyone can read it in the newspaper, which means nobody in the government can talk about it (on the record).
My understanding is that the FBI has been asked to redact any classified material they don’t want released from the document.
Which is, IMHO, brilliant. Because they either redact the shit out of it, or they create the precedent that they will disclose stuff…
If they redact the shit out of it, the document becomes a nothingburger.
Remember, the Democratic party’s politicians are just as moronic and imbecilic as their Republican counterparts.
The redactions will play into the media narrative that the justification for the warrants was based on truly classified info nobody has seen yet or they will play it as the administration trying to suppress the truth. Doesn’t really matter in any case, they’ll run with the explanation most favorable to Democrats.
How much longer until Dem partisans are the only ones paying attention to the MSM?
A year ago?
It is bizarre that we are supposed to simultaneously entertain the notion that the Russians undermined the election in collusion with the eventual winner and current President, which is if true an act of war against not only the country but the people as well, but also the notion that the information proving this claim is too sensitive to share with the people. Those are two contradictory notions. It would be like covering up evidence that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor but then telling the American people that Japan attacked us. It doesn’t make any goddamn sense.
It’s not supposed to make any sense. It’s meant to muddy the water enough so that no one can draw any reasonable conclusions. If you can’t convince them, confuse them. The Dems are just trying to run out the clock in the hopes that they get the House back so they can impeach.
Trump won’t be removed from office but they can keep the circus going until 2020.
Oh, there was Russian collusion alright.
What I find amazing is that everyone is acting like this is not business as usual. Every major power is fucking with elections all over the world every time one is held. They fuck with us, we fuck with them. SOP.
I am also incredulous that Russian meddling had any effect whatsoever on the election.
Yep, it’s started already.
This is why I don’t understand what is so dangerous about the President calling the media ‘the enemy’ and ‘the opposition’. They’re just partisans. Let’s just accept reality
How about the American people? You know, the ones the government is allegedly by, for, and of? Why don’t you do your fucking jobs as reporters and find out the truth? I don’t give a fuck about the political gamesmanship. It isn’t a fucking baseball game. Did the Russians work the Trump or not? Did the Democrats spy on Trump or not? Find out some goddamn answers or STFU.
Don’t you trust your familiar national XYZ network news anchor?
@kbolino – BUT DRUMPF IS LIDDURALLY HITLER!!! WE CAN’T JUST SIT BY AND DO *NOTHING*!!!!!!
Shiff outflanked Nunes? Sure he did, just like the Ruskies hacked the election. All Shiff is doing is playing to the true believers. He isnt going to convince anyone with a brain.
So their argument is that the memo opposing the memo establishing that the FBI and DOJ fucked up will be undercut by FBI and DOJ redactions? And that the FBI and DOJ did these retractions to protect the President who is saying they are corrupt and unreliable?
Sure you want to go with that?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-scheming-speculation-behind-scenes-as-democrats-push-intel-memo/article/2648340?platform=hootsuite
I called it: the FBI has not complained about the Democratic memo even though it contains far more intelligence information than the Nunes memo
Because they were more interested in keeping the facts about the top men club from the plebes so they can keep undermining the sitting president with a witch hunt made up to cover their malfeasance to steal an election for democrats?
One of these days Im going to have to invite you code monkeys, designers, sysadmins, and nerdists to explain some (to you) very basic internet-ish things. I can tell you half a dozen different ways to sample for VOC, why an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) wont measure O2, and which alloys will take high (2000ºF) temperatures, and what happens when you used them in an oxygen-deficient environment. However, by golly, when I see that link and it says ?platform=hootsuite, I feel like Im missing out.
Anatomy of a URL 101
Example – https://glibertarians.com/2018/02/the-party-is-over-in-illinois?platform=some%20garbage&reason=fytw#some_internal_anchor
Part 1, the Protocol: Everything before the colon (in this example, https) is the protocol. This is used on the client side to figure out how to request the resource. Commonly you’ll see http and https, ftp is out there, and there are even non-standard ones that exist.
Part 2, the Host: Everything from the // to the / is the host. This is who the client is going to ask for the resource. For web stuff (i.e. most URLs you care about), this is going to be the DNS name of the server you want to talk to, though you may occasionally see an IP address (which is what DNS names get converted into behind the scenes).
Part 3, the Path: From the first / up until the ? (or, if no ?, the #). This part tells the host what resource you’re looking for, and it’s interpreted by the host. In the case of our example, it’s telling the WordPress bits to serve up the “the-party-is-over-in-Illinois” post from February of 2018, but that’s really arbitrary. Originally, web servers used the path argument to look for a specific file to serve up, but that’s really only common for images and such these days.
Part 4, the Query String: From the ? until the end (or until the # that I left out). This is additional info passed to the server for whatever purposes it needs – client identification, details about a product link you clicked on, etc. Most of the time, if you leave that info off the URL, it won’t change where you’re directed – though it might change what you see when you get there.
Part 5, the Anchor: bits after the #. This will point to a specific location inside a web page. It’s this little bit that allows people to link directly to, say, a particular comment on a web page.
I think, in this specific case, the query string ?platform=hootsuite indicates that the link was originally obtained from hootsuite, which is some kind of social media thing.
Its a trap and the Dems and the FBI have fallen into it. Set it for themselves, really.
After the Dems squawked about how dangerous memos examining how the FBI/DOJ goes about their business really are, they don’t have much ground to complain if this memo is redacted to meet the precise concerns that they voiced earlier. If they really did salt it with poison pills about sources and methods, well, they were just telling us that such things shouldn’t be published.
If the FBI/DOJ waves the memo through, then the Dems just flat don’t have anything to complain about. But the cherry on top is, if the FBI/DOJ waves the Dem memo through, then what we already know is confirmed – their “grave concerns” about the Nunez memo had nothing to do with sources and methods, and everything to do with how critical it was of them.
They also complained that it had “material omissions”, but they haven’t yet made any reply to the memo (one to Congress would be appropriate) stating what those omissions were and why they are material. They could turn giving Congress such a memo and waive any objection to its release. That has its own dangers, though – whatever they say in their reply memo becomes fair game for verification.
I think they are fucked no matter what they do, because they were engaged in a criminal conspiracy to violate civil rights, and there’s no good way to turn that on their political enemies.