This will be quite a bit less thorough than my last writing, primarily because of the subject matter. The earlier piece was easier to come up with examples for, as it is so transparently obvious that the metric system is more overrated than any other system, with the possible exception of Urban Meyer’s spread. [Note to editors, please remove that bit if Oklahoma gets crushed in the first round of the playoffs. Likewise, if the Sooners take the whole thing before this gets published, feel free to add “Booya!” or “Oh no he di-in’t!” or similar. Also, definitely include this clip. Editor’s note: I have no idea what happens in sportsball-world, so I left this in for the lulz]. At the end of this article I expect to receive an offer for a tenured position in Whiteness Studies.1
I hereby proclaim my theory of whiteness based on two indisputable facts: first, that whiteness (as specified below) increases over time (at least until very recently) and second, that “mighty white of you” was a compliment. Now when I am talking about whiteness, I mean that term as it applies to the United States (sorry Rufus). I doubt I need to recap but maybe for Pie, there was a time when in America, the White Race was the English Race. Even the Germans were considered non-white by Ben Franklin. Ponder that for a moment.2 Even as late as the 20th century, “true whites” were also referred to as WASPs (anyone else find it odd how that term seems to have completely vanished?) or White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (remember how the KKK hated Catholics). Now here is the thing: “white ethnics” never went away. Which leads me to my first point:
Whiteness is not an ethnicity; it is a meta-ethnicity.
I didn’t see this much growing up in Indian Territory, but when I moved to upstate New York, I entered a place were white ethnic enclaves are still a thing. The local paper’s sports section has a story titled “Danes Defeat Dutchmen” and as God is my witness, I can tell people from those towns apart by sight. Ditto those descended from Poles. And the Irish, and the Eye-ties and… There is enough endogamy going on up here that the various white ethnicities maintain their physical and cultural (expressed through styles of dress) differences that I never expected to see from my few decades living in the south-central part of the country. There is no conflict between someone being “white” and being “Italian,” because they are separate categories of taxonomy.
But what about me? I am a white man[citation needed]. I don’t really have access to an actual ethnicity. I’m all mutted up. I have a German (maternal) grandmother (Northern German, she would stress, not one of those silly southern Germans), but all I really have of a heritage from her is a smattering of verbal imperatives and the ability to play this on the accordion. (Side note: none of the women in my family descending from that grandmother, including my sister and her daughters have pierced ears. Proper German girls don’t piece their ears. That’s for those Polish trollops.) My father’s mother’s mother’s mother was of the (((tribe))). That left me the ability to correctly pronounce “kibitz” and “chutzpah,” but the inability to remember more than half of the Sh’ma Yisrael at any given time. One of my grandfathers managed to do a genealogy going back to the Norman invasion, but the other only made it back a few generations since most of them were actively trying to change their identities as they *ahem* sought greener (or at least less jail-filled) pastures. Yeah, they pretty much fucked anything that would let them. Oh, and in my only defense of Elizabeth Warren ever, I can confirm that every child born in Oklahoma is told that they are descended from a Cherokee princess. Apparently they looooved the D.3
Anyway, if Albion’s Seed is correct, the Borderers (Scots-Irish, Border Reavers, “Scum of Two Nations,” whatever) brought their tendency to eschew any cultural identity with then when they settled in the US. I’d guess this would be why there is a large portion of the country that has no real interest in an ethnicity and therefore are “white by default” as Ozy Franz would never say.
Now about this mutting process, is it the case where I do have a “real” ethnic identity, but I just don’t identify with it? I… don’t think so. My mother almost never made strudel. I think she made spätzle once. She did make pork meatballs in sauerkraut on a fairly regular basis and liked to cook pork ribs with onions and apples, but you couldn’t really call her cuisine “German” outside of some ironclad rules on meal preparation (each supper needed a starch, a meat, a yellow vegetable, a green vegetable, and a salad). She cooked pots and pots of chili. Mountains of meatballs with enough spaghetti to consume the entire harvest of Ticino. Corned beef and cabbage. Pinto beans and cornbread (did I mention she was born in Milwaukee?). And those unfortunate culinary relics of the pre-Carter era which need not be spoken of. The point is, my culinary “heritage” is a hodge-podge of things that tasted good to my mom that she learned to cook, just as my genetic heritage is a hodge-podge of those people my ancestors liked to bang.
So how is it that nowhere people like myself and also pureblood ethnics all fall under the rubric “white?” Because…
Whiteness does not refer to your ethnicity; it refers to your relationship with other ethnicities
If your ethnic culture is in a state of mutual intelligibility (and I would say respect) with the dominant ethnic culture, you are white. That’s it. If the WASPs understood and tolerated the way another group lived, and that group reciprocated, they became less “other,” especially in comparison to TGOT. This is not to say that this understanding is deep or even accurate. It’s just enough that the other cultures are grokked as being comprehensible, even if not currently comprehended. This is why whiteness expands. Groups experiencing a cultural exchange (appropriation!) and especially those living close enough to intermarry will inevitably gain mutual understanding. Unless, of course, you make an effort not to.
Any group that does not actively resist becoming white, will become white
There is a good example of a (((group))) that made an effort to keep itself separate and isolated from the larger society that it lived in, and it worked in maintaining otherness for a couple of millennia. In the US, that’s rapidly changed. I can’t speak for other parts of the country, but in Austin, people of Mexican descent are white. So are Vietnamese, though the average gringo in Austin knows a lot fewer words of Vietnamese than they do Spanish. I think this trend may be happening nationwide, as I’ve heard Jews and Asians referred to in the derpverse of reddit/twitter/tumblr as “Schrödinger’s POCs.” About that term–POC, I absolutely loathe it. It is as wrong as a term could possibly be. It creates false connections where none exist and disregards those similarities that do. Any mindset that can claim that my US-born and raised coworker of West Indian descent has less in common with me than he does with a subsistence yak farmer in Tibet is simply diseased. It’s as insulting as telling a political lesbian that her sexuality is defined by her lack of desire for penis4. I do understand why the term exists, though; it’s a deliberate attempt at destruction. Everyone got their aluminum foil ready? *takes a drink of water, inhales* Whiteness expands, since it’s just the ever-increasing understanding of one’s neighbors. Capitalism expands because it works. A certain worldview which has a penchant for red flags and brass ornaments equates both of these as hegemonic movements. *Voice changes to O’Brien’s.* Action needed to be taken to stop the cisheteropatriarchical albumkyriarchcapitalistic5 forces. Whiteness is a state of mutual understanding. That needed to be broken. So, break the culture. Eliminate the canon. Make sure that the only books that an entire generation has read is Harry Potter. Make the educational system focus on literature that is recent, so there won’t be any intergenerational touchstones. Ensure that the only common references available are from mass media, and ensure that you can determine what makes it into the mass media. Emphasize differences. Emphasize slights. Emphasize hurts. Let nothing pass unremarked, no aggression is too micro to not demand an apology for. Make sure that apologies demand humiliation so that you may inspire resentment. That’s the genius of POC. Whiteness is a state of commonality. POC is the definition of difference. It’s an identity based on opposition to that idea of mutual understanding. Prevent cultural exchange, make it a new sin, call it “appropriation.” Abolish the word “normal.” Everyone’s identity must be broken down to as many different axes of oppression as possible, for each axis is another attempt to demonstrate just how alien we are to each other, another potential fault line. Eventually, the only thing that people should have in common is their subservience to the state.
I can has grant monies nao?
1 I do not actually expect this to happen.
2 “You know who else didn’t consider Germans white?” may be the first time where the game cannot actually be answered.
3 An alternate interpretation is that there is just a whoooole lot of inbreeding going on.
4 Do not actually attempt to do this. It will not go well.
5 Fun fact: randomly mashing on a keyboard generates leftist academic concepts.
holy fuck, that’s a lot of tags
Also, any idea what’s wiping out the formatting, in this case the superscripts? The most recent one I submitted also has them.
I may have gotten carried away with the tags.
Not sure about the superscript formatting, though. Your tags are right, but for some reason they just didn’t carry through.
VWD on the kitteh pic/alt-text
Danke! Snark is my speciality.
Too bland.
This actually echoes a lot of things I’ve thought about too. One of the things that the Soviet Union observed about the US is that it had a hodgepodge of people from all over the world living in relative peace and harmony; at least compared to the ethno-religious clusterfuck of death that grips the rest of the globe. They saw that as a key part of why the US was strong, so they decided to use balkanization as a strategy to try and bring it down. Since modern-day academic Lefties and SJWs are basically recycling Soviet-style tactics, it makes perfect sense they would adopt this approach as well.
And for the record (just for my own edification), America has a very well defined culture independent of any racial/ethnic connotations. That the Left tries to bundle it in with “whiteness” and turn it into a racial issue shows how threatening American concepts of liberty, free association and capitalism are to them.
That reminds me (for some odd reason) yesterday I saw Scrapple in the grocery store. Scrapple! In Upstate New York!
What the heel is it doing out of its isolation zone?
*googles*
That sound offal.
*narrows gaze*
Go Switzy! Fry that scrapple!
What the heel is it doing out of its isolation zone?
Spreading its scrapply goodness for all the world to indulge in.
When I finally make it up out of Maryland, the thing I’ll miss most is Scrapple.
It’s payback for the contamination of the Poconos.
Now you need to look for goetta.
Goetta is fucking awesome. Totally justifies the existence of Cincinnati, but just barely.
They had to make up for that hot dog sauce they call a chili somehow.
We had a couple of cans of Skyline Chili in the house that we intended to ship to my wife’s brother in Germany for Christmas. She couldn’t justify spending $20 to ship three cans of of chili soup so we ended up keeping two.
I ended up eating one can for lunch today. It wasn’t half bad, which surprised me since the last time I tried it I hated it.
Calling it chili is still a slap in the face to real chili. To them, chili is just a type of spaghetti sauce. Hogwash! Flimflam! Even my wife buys into this notion and demands we make spaghetti to eat with her chili any time we make the real stuff.
It makes me extra crabby because my gut hates pasta these days.
Obligatory
Damn Q, you just kind of blew my mind. ?
Q – you are 100% correct.
My WASP grandparents certainly didn’t recognize Italians, Slavs, Greeks or anyone of the Catholic persuasion as “White”.
This would be their spokesman.
My mother still talks about how her father (a WASP-y sort) was very much anti-Italian, and would have had her hide if she’d dated an Italian boy growing up. Not sure where that particular prejudice came from, since he was born in Alabama and moved to Texas at an early age, but he clearly didn’t think of Italians as white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOsexnFzUWs
“A Jew broad!”
My mother’s family were Catholics from New Jersey, but she still to this day is mildly embarrassed about my dad being half Italian. She definitely still thinks of Italian as ethnic, even though she was born in the late 50s. Ironically she considers my Pakistani wife to be white.
She is probably Aryan…
Yeah, Persian ancestry and Greek if you believe the local legends about Alexander’s army.
IIRC, I read something from Benjamin Franklin that indicated the only people he considered white were Englishmen. He definitely differentiated Krauts and Frogs from other whities.
“The wogs begin at Calais!”
At least they aren’t as bad as the Swedes. My dad says it was a bit of a scandal when his cousin married one of ^them^. ( The ^ ^ represent the horns on their helmet. That’s how it’s done, right?)
*This site has now been tagged by a Google crawler. It will only appear under the search term “Alt-Right Nazi Shitlords”.*
Oh no! We’ll lose our family-friendly certification!
Honestly, I was more than a little worried about that when I submitted this.
That and now that Irish is gone, I figured that I’d be marking myself for life (or at least until a handle change).
Just steal the passwords of all the users with Intel processors and make them into loyal socks.
Why? We’re already all Tulpa here.
Irish? Did he finally marry Lauren Southern?
Yes, but he has to share her with the other Brother-Husbands.
This article is on point when you talk about how fungible the term “white” is. Pew just released a study confirming something that is clearly obvious to anyone who has encountered the children of immigrants: the children of Hispanic immigrants begin to identify as white and by the third generation nearly all descendants identify as white.
“White” is a category for identifying with the majority culture, as much as it is a race, in the US. The problem, of course, is that blacks can never identify as white (despite living here longer than most white ethnicities), which is why the complaints of the black community should never just be dismissed.
Of course black people can identify as white if they join in the dominant culture, that’s why the term oreo exists.
Joining in the “dominant culture” doesn’t guarantee acceptance by the dominant culture.
+1
Guy in HS: Hey Mex, nice car. Who did you steal it from?
Me in HS: You’re mom. She took a nap after I finished her off.
You knew Winston in HS?!
Winston’s mom doesn’t take naps as her appetite is far too insatiable. It is known
I agree with this. We’ve been able to assimilate every other group in the world (We will see Ramadan lights and cards at some point) except for the blacks. Partly because of appearance. I wish there was some way to overcome this as I’m not sure if all the blacks were to become oreos overnight would change this.
All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin’ everybody ’til they’re all the same color.
Workin’ on it.
That sounds awful.
And it wouldn’t work anyway. Genes are not pigment and solvents, you won’t attain uniformity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmNFDJgPrRI
From just 1 African/European mixture you can produce someone who looks like Obama to someone who looks like this.
You know what they say about guarantees.
It makes a guar out of an and tee?
*slow clap*
It’s been pointed out by others, but this is why the U.S. census claim that whites would no longer be the majority by 2050 is based on poor logic. Their math is based on the idea that when any white person has children with any non-white person that person forever after can not be considered white no matter whom they have children with.
This means that my half-white children can marry white people and have offspring that look white but apparently they’ll never be white.
Because I live in Texas, half the kids on my eldest daughter’s soccer team are Hispanic mixed with white. Which you can’t even tell unless you’ve met the parents. But apparently they’re “non white” and that’s important because their values are just so much different (they’re not, of course).
..
The most hilarious aspect of the census’s claim is that the main reason whites will not be the majority in America because of the heavy immigration of Hispanics (an ethnicity that is primarily white). So apparently white people mixing with mostly white people is going to end white people’s numbers? Good luck with that.
The most hilarious aspect of the census’s claim is that the main reason whites will not be the majority in America because of the heavy immigration of Hispanics….
And, of course, what happens when and if and as the bulk of Hispanics assimilate into the wider culture? I’ve met more than a few Hispanics who’d get pretty pissed off pretty quickly as things stand if you were to try to tell them they aren’t white.
So they’re White-Hispanics?
Yeah. Hispanic isn’t a race and only recently won status in the U.S. as an “ethnicity.” If it isn’t a race, then of course they can be white.
Which even further undermines the census bureau claim.
I don’t personally care. We’re all a mix of everything.
But there’s a gleeful narrative by certain people that the power will shift at some point soon away from the evil whitey.
Well, the evil whitey is a shapeshifting concept. I don’t think so.
We’ll use our coveted tricknology on the Hispanics to make them believe they’re white to preserve our cultural superiority.
We are the borg.
Those Borg are some mighty white folks.
I just did the census online thing. I have a hard time believing things that come out of that.
I may have signed up as a Jamaican women with a hearing disability for how fast I was clicking through that site.
I really don’t understand their math.
49% white
21% hispanic
18% black
12% other
How are whites no longer a majority in that scenario? (I mean, I get that all the other’s add up to 51%, but it’s not like every minority group is exactly the same as the next.)
Majority = 50% +1
Largest group less than 50% = plurality.
I just dismiss the complaints of anyone speaking for any “community”.
This reminds me of something funny I saw on youtube recently. I watched the Angry Joe review of the Pixar film “Coco”, and before getting into the review the three hosts discussed their Hispanic heritage (since the film is about a Mexican boy). What was funny was that the two guys who looked white and had no Mexican heritage seemed to identify most strongly with the Hispanic ethnicity while the brown guy with Mexican ancestors clearly felt the most “white”.
This is something I notice a lot to here in Southern California. The Hispanics that most look white talk up being Hispanic way more than the Hispanics that look fairly brown.
It’s easy to become white if you’re of African descent, you just have be openly conservative or Republican.
Your name get automatically changed to Tom too. Easy peasy!
Not to mention the sudden acquisition of neices and nephews.
Why not? If Chinese, Arabs, and Indians (dot not feather) can be identified was white, I don’t see why blacks can’t.
Also, SE Kansas: Germans vs Italians (bonus! Catholic) vs displaced Appalachian Scots/Irish coal miners.
Can confirm (and I’m only 49). Also, only Polish girls braid their hair.
The “ski’s” have different eyes than us round-eyed Anglo-Saxons. The Huns or Mongols got to their women I think.
my eyes are pretty damn round Drake-man. It’s also been 7 generations since the first Lachowsky made his way to the American shores, so you may be onto something.
I knew lots of kids with Melania Trump eyes – unfortunately the other bits didn’t turn out quite as nice.
Joke from my childhood: You know why a lot of polaks have “ski” at the end of their names? Because it was too hard to spell “toboggan”.
I am a little salty that I can’t select Irish on forms.
I wrote in ‘mutt’ on the last form that asked the stupid ethnicity question.
“You know who else didn’t consider Germans white?”
Louis XIV?
Someone read the footnotes!
*does peasant dance around a snowman*
I read them and was disappointed. I was expecting citations.
D’awwww! Unciv is disappointed!
Also: I thought I made it clear in my first submission, I do no research whatsoever.
*salutes Not Adahn*
That doesn’t[1] preclude citations.
1. Bullshitting for Fun and Profit. Gekko, 1985
4 Do not actually attempt to do this. It will not go well.
Uh oh.
Even the Germans were considered non-white by Ben Franklin
Zombie Hitler has a sad.
My wife’s grandfather who was the son of Sicilian immigrants told us how the WASP’s during the 30, 40’s and 50’s were absolute assholes towards him and his family. He recalled that after the war and law school, he went to interview at a major law firm in Cleveland and the interviewer made a comment that his last name sounded Italian. My wife’s grandfather responded that it was Italian and asked if that’s strike one. The interviewer said that it was strike two because him being Italian meant that he was also Catholic. When he left the interview, he was obviously super pissed and never told anyone about until a couple of years ago.
put a hex on the browns?
Wait… Sicilians are considered Italian now? When did this happen? And here in Cleveland we still have Little Italy and Polish Village. There’s also large areas of Irish, Croatian, and Serbians.
Blame Garibaldi.
My wife’s grandfather was born in Little Italy in Cleveland and moved from there when he was a little older because his father wanted them to become more integrated into American society. When they moved into the “WASPy” neighborhoods, they weren’t well received at first.
Sicilians are considered Italian now?
No.
Italy being the Mexico of Europe, I presume Sicilians are the Cubans, or perhaps Pureto Ricans of Europe.
IDK, but my hubs says Sicilians are the n*gg*rs of Italy. He says they have WAY too much Arab ancestry to count as Italians.
So… he’s a True Romance fan? (Clip NSFW).
My great-grandma repeatedly said, quote, “Sicily sank to the bottom of the boot with the rest of the garbage.”
My great-grandparents were from Italy. My grandpa really didn’t like to talk much at all, but I’m pretty sure similar stuff to this must have happened to him because he went hard on assimilating. He became a non-denominational Christian, wouldn’t have his kids baptized Catholic or go to Catholic Church (my dad got baptized as an adult, so I was really confused as a kid why Noni [great-grandma] and my parents were Catholic but Noni’s son wasn’t), wouldn’t answer the phone when his cousins from Italy called, and listened to so much country music that my uncle wound up with a southern accent… in California. His name was also apparently Giancarlo, but no one knew it until he died and my grandma was going through his papers because he signed John Carl on everything.
Apparently my wife’s grandfather was fluent in Italian but no one even his children or grandchildren knew this until one day they were on a family trip in Italy and got lost. Some guy approached them asking them if they needed help and her grandfather just started speaking in Italian to the guy.
My Italian great grandfather read the dictionary after dinner every day. Learning English was a huge priority.
My grandpa, whose parents came over on the boat, didn’t go that far at all, but he did legally change his first and middle names from Alfredo Primo to Alfred John. He’s always told me that his parents always spoke Italian to each other but never the kids because they wanted the kids to be American, not Italian.
My Calabrese grandparents changed their names and refused to teach my father and his siblings Italian. I learned only a few words from them and absolutely no grammar. When I asked them why, my grandfather answered “We speak English because we are Americans.” They only returned to Italy and to visit their family in their old village in 1979, over a half century after they came to the US.
In my parents living room are my grandparents framed Immigration and Naturalization certificates. According to the US officials on Ellis Island Italians weren’t white either. On the line stating Race of the individuals it clearly states “Italian”.
This gets to what the core of modern racial strife actually is, a rejection of the traditions and behaviors derived from western culture. The left has by and large conquered the government, but can’t get their slimy hands around the culture, so they invent new ways to divide society in order to conquer it. How is the best way to divide people, by using immutable characteristics.
In a religion class during college this girl who was of Middle Eastern descent went on and on about how shitty Western culture was and how it’s oppressive. I usually didn’t say much in class but that day, I got peeved and asked her if our (Western)culture was so oppressive, why did her family move from the Middle East? The discussion descended into a Category 5 shitstorm.
Is Western culture perfect? Absolutely not, but the values on which we try to live by and the technology on which has increased our life spans has contributed to the increase of wealth around the world that has been unprecedented in human history and it’s a damn shame that many on the Left are trying to destroy those values.
Robert Conquest used a similar argument in his “Reflections on a Ravaged Century.”
Basically, when confronted with people who insist that all values are equal, he asks them that shouldn’t they then favor systems/cultures which actually practice that.
My wife once said some bullshit like that and when I told her that in some cultures I could treat her like shit without any sort of repercussions, should we view those cultures as being great and equal?
All values being equal sounds great in practice but try telling that to some asshole in Saudi Arabia or in the tribal regions of Afghanistan that and see what would happen.
Yeah, I like that argument because it points out the contradiction in the “every system is valid” rather than arguing for one system over a another.
Its deeper than that. Validity is only relative to a standard. You need to get the opponent to establish a standard of measurement first.
Mark Steyn has repeatedly destroyed the stupid idea of “multiculturalism”.
He was great until the toxoplasmosis kicked in.
Mark Steyn is welcome to butter my scones anytime.
So I’m a white guy? Suddenly I feel dirty…
It is. The only places I’ve seen it not occur is among my relatives in the southern part of the AZ, in towns sharing a border with Mexico.
“Eventually, the only thing that people should have in common is their subservience to the state.”
That’s the end game. All the identity politics nonsense is pushed by our political betters in order to grow their power. Anyone spouting this nonsense without realizing that is being what Comrade Ilyich would refer to as a “useful idiot”
Ay, there’s the rub!
I find that thoughtful and judicious rubbing eases all sorts of tensions
*funk guitar music starts playing*
Great article, Not Adahn!
*tips top hat*
This really cleared things up for me. I’m 100% Slovak and Catholic. Not too long ago, I would not be considered white. But now I am considered a white male and my kind owes reparations for something that happened long before my family got here from Europe. So it appears my family’s biggest sin was to assimilate and become “normal” Americans.
You freely adopted the mantle of sin. Now pay up.
I’m still confused. I’m ScottishItalianGerman so as far as I can tell, I’m not remotely white. Right?
Not with that Italian blood.
When I first brought my then-boyfriend, now Mr Splosives (25% Italian with an Italian last name) to meet the parents about 12 years ago, my dear mother (born 1940) said casually as they worked in the kitchen, “The Italian race is known for its artists and (something something–do not recall”. The hubs took it in stride but then looked at me and mouthed “The Italian RACE?!?” I myself was even surprised she said that.
She is pretty much 100% British with some Scandahoovian thrown in. Until that point, I had never heard a living person refer to Italians as a separate race.
If northern Italian, you can pass. Southern Italian…it depends.
Yeeeeeah! Parma, baby!
Prascorsano for Mr Splosives. (Northern Italian cheese is the best.)
Branzi and Taleggio are my faves.
One of my uncles was berated by a black girl in high school when bussing started. She was yelling at him about his ancestors enslaving her ancestors. He said, “Listen, when your ancestors were slaves my ancestors were herding sheep in Scotland.” His grandparents (my great-grandparents) were off-the-boat Scottish emigres who moved to Philadelphia in the 1920s.
Yep, always thought that was an absurd concept.
What about the mulees? Do they owe themselves money?
No, clearly their ancestors betrayed the rest of the ‘community’.
My grandfather lived next door to Bull Connor growing up. To the extent that he was at all religious he would have identified as Christian, meaning Protestant, and our family is English, Scottish, and a little bit of misc. northern European by way of the Norman invasion of England. He got pissed at one of my aunts because she married a Sicilian. “White” was a very, very narrow category for him that referred primarily to Europeans (excluding southern Italy and Greece), with Slavs getting a provisional status. Jews were an odd case, because if pressed he’d probably have described them as “white…kind of…” but he also believed a family rumor that we had a crypto-Jewish ancestor who arrived in Galveston in the 1800s and married into the family, so it was dicey ground.
Not Adahn, I think you’re onto something here. I think maybe what happens when you make it into the “white” club is that you reach a point where your ethnicity is so low on the list of relevant characteristics that it ceases to be a significant factor, which I think you were getting at. In effect, if the out-group shuts up about it and the in-group shuts up about it, nobody cares and the out-group becomes part of the in-group. And that’s when you’ve got assimilation. History and physical differences can make this more difficult, as in the case of black people in the US, but the process is the same and works for everyone. It might take a while, but it happens.
Pretty much this. Which is why I have a bone to pick with people who actively promote diversity as opposed to just celebrating it periodically at a cultural festival or something.
For your last bit there (“Emphasize differences. Emphasize slights. Emphasize hurts.”), my brain kept trying to put it to this song. Or the Project Mayhem scene from Fight Club (“You are not special. You’re not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You’re the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We’re all part of the same compost heap. We’re all singing, all dancing crap of the world”).
As a kid I was pretty confused when my white friends would say, “I’m half X and a quarter of Y,” and to me it didn’t make any sense because in my eyes, they were just white. I didn’t really understand the concept of ethnicity until I got a little older.
oh so we all look alike?
Pallid meatbags.
Y’all also smell like sour milk.
Jus’ sayin’.
Dibs on that for a band name.
When all candles be out, all cats be grey.
and nationalism comes pretty close to those conversations. which makes it even harder, what year is the year we decided to make that arbitrary line matter?
I still don’t get it. You’re not half or quarter anything, you’re all you. Sure your family culture may be British, or German or Polish; but the farther back you go they were most likely something else, and culture changes over time. It’s all meaningless except for knowledge of who you are descended from and where they fit into history.
At some point the fractions become so small to be meaningless. I am 1/132 Yaqui Indian.
So a nice Irish Catholic boy from Iowa grows up to become an engineer. He screws up in way that requires him to travel internationally on business on a regular basis for nearly a decade. One rather easy trip has him visiting a supplier in Dublin, then popping off to visit a branch office near London. It’s just a quick hop on Aer Lingus from Dublin to Gatwick. The local office arranges for a driver to pick him up at the airport.
Just like in the movies, the driver is standing in the arrival hall, wearing a suit and tie, and holding the classic paper card with kinnath’s business name on it. I walk over, and the driver grabs my bag. He asks how was the flight. I respond it was fine.
As were walking out, the driver says “You don’t sound Irish”. “No”, I reply, “I’m American”. “Uh, OK” he says. As we continue walking out the card, I see him sneaking a peek at the name he has written on a small card. So I explain that grandfather’s grandfather was born it was is now Northern Ireland. But I am third generation American.
I quit telling anyone that I was Irish after that. I just acknowledge that I have an Irish surname.
can’t count today. 4th generation.
I have to go back seven generations to find an ancestor who got off the boat. So I’m Native American.
I’ve learned that when overseas if asked where you’re from, just say America. Not the United States, not USA, and unless someone starts asking exactly where in America, don’t bother with the state (maybe California or NY could get away with it).
Texas worked well enough for me when I was in Paris.
Yeah, I could see that.
My wife had that problem when we went to Italy for our honeymoon in August. She’s third generation, so she does not know a lick of Italian which created a lot of hilarious situations when people saw her last name and started speaking in Italian to her.
My wife (bohunk ancestry) said she had no problems with the Germans in Munich last year until she started talking. Before that, they just assumed she was German also.
When my sister went to Italy, she caused some confusion because she had our Italian last name but the red hair, pale complexion, and freckles from my mom’s side of the family which is Irish. The locals were bemused that someone with an Italian name didn’t look the part at all. She does speak some Italian, though
Our cousin, who resembles my sister closely enough that they look like sisters, sometimes runs into similar surprise because she’s Jewish from her mom’s side despite looking completely Irish.
And by bemused you mean….
She was asked repeatedly if she were married and that were her husband’s name because she clearly couldn’t be from an Italian family herself.
Fortunately, Ellis Island helpfully changed my great grandfather’s surname to Smith, so I can be generic white guy wherever I go.
I would get this when we moved to the Boston area. They’d notice the surname and say “oh, you’re Irish!?”. I’d say my great great grandparents came from Ireland, but I’m an American. They would then look irritated.
I’d really piss people off when they’d ask what I was doing for St Patrick’s day. I’d say I was hoisting a pint of *Bass* and thanking my g grandparents for leaving the place.
“Saint Patrick’s Day? Do I look like some sort of Catholic?”
I’m glad I’m not the only one that drinks Bass on St. Patricks Day.
My boss’ boss had a similar experience – Irish surname. Except he’s a 6’5″ black man, so lots of boggled looks on faces when he showed up in Ireland for business meetings.
Don’t meet too many black Seamuses
I’m 100% white – if you include The Dutch as white. But if Germans’s aren’t white, then what are the Dutch? *runs off sobbing*
Speaking of Dutch
Also this.
Those pics working better than the space heater at warming me up.
Yum! Pass me a stroopwafel!
Two things I can’t stand.
This Millennial job interview was linked below that. Pretty funny.
https://youtu.be/Uo0KjdDJr1c
That was awesome. Might have to share with the “Generations” employee resource group next week.
Why is her interviewing her on his porch? At night?
Because he wanted to Weinstein her? She did say she didn’t feel safe…
Wait, “Weinstein” is a verb now?
Yes it is. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Weinstein
“Holland IS the Netherlands!”
I had a Lithuanian gentleman tell me that “A Jew is just a nigger turned inside out.” I don’t think that was meant as a compliment.
So blacks are white on the inside?
No, they just have big concave noses.
I remember the Romanian commie government selling Jews to Israel. Romania lost a lot of good engineers that way.
Was it a slur against the Jews or the blacks? I’m confused.
Also, I’m just stunned to hear anti-Semitism from a Lithuanian
It was a two-fer. He did not care for me, as you might guess.
Check out my Avatar, I found it digging through my files, look closelier and see….
I am white and decedent of Dacians, the master race. As such I am purer then you lot. Because whitness is seen by many (aka supremacist assholes) as some sign of purity (one drop and all that).
But I am the good kind of white. As in I can stay in the sun without getting freckled and loosing my soul. Just the right amount you see. Not too much not too little.
Genetically spiking I am not sure whiteness means much. Also Mediterraneans were not seen as white by some northerners until people decided to claim ancient Mediterranean civilization as whiute (the grerekj part of the judeo christian greek nonsense)
god damn it it clocked post accidentally before fixing the typos. For a guy who writes code all day I type like shit. This is why I was never a gamer, my fingers get all tangled on the keyboard. But the best white people mistype on occasion so it’s all good. A sign of genetic superiority if you will
I AM A GINGER, THE WHITEST OF WHITE!
Smelly Slav
“Just the right amount you see. Not too much not too little. ”
The Goldilocks of whiteness.
Dacians, the master race.
Is that from Game of Thrones? I don’t always get the references to pop cultures preferred medieval sex-fantasy.
*narrows gaze*
So Wops, Krauts, and Pollacks are White now? What the hell is wrong with this country? I means Asians sure, but those other people?
Wait, all Asians? Cmon, you can do better than that.
SouKs and Japs, but not South Asians or the Chinese.
I’d even take norks if they got out before or during the war, I mean police action. Those people are whiter then our current crop of wasps.
Depends on the Chinese. My wife and her brother are half Chinese, half Scottish. They both pass easily as white. Their grandparents on the Chinese side were Ambassadors for the Nationalist Chinese before they had to flee the country. They had been fairly high level bureaucrats going back generations in China.
Granma Chinese [I have no idea what her name was] almost had to kill my wife’s father as a baby. The Reds had seized the ancestral property and they were hiding in a ditch to avoid passing soldiers when her dad took in a breath like he was about to start squalling. Granma had to cover his mouth because if the soldiers heard him they’d all be done in for. She was willing to suffocate the little squirt if need be and told him so. He got here, got a PhD in physics and taught physics at a college. He also apparently never spoke Chinese once they immigrated and wouldn’t let my wife’s mom have the kids learn it either. Cause he wanted to be an American, damnit. Anyway, point is, what few family on that side of met of hers, even the full-blooded ones are fairly pale skinned. So she just doesn’t look Chinese unless you know. To the point that one of my pet names for her is Ninja, IE: she’s a stealth Asian.
“He got here, got a PhD in physics and taught physics at a college.”
So he’s white
That was my point yes. That the Chinese are also white. I think it depends on which Chinese though. Han & Mandarin with a lineage of being civil servants and business people = wypipo. Other mud grubbing peasants = POC
Other Chinese too. Like Dilraba Dilmurat.
Please see the discussion above. Northern Italians (like from Emilia-Romagna like my family!) are white. Those dirty Sicilians and Calabrese are not.
Province of Belluno here.
Sorry Rufus.
*goes and stands with the white kids*
First we will need to see your golf swing, a performance of “The Running Man Dance”, and assess how spicy is “too spicy” for you.
I have yet to find anyone as white as I am, based on my Ancestry results.
I got a sunburn in Ireland. Checkmate.
My aunt and a couple uncles did those. Both uncles had a small percentage of eastern european jew, where as my aunt did not.
Is this aunt this sister of the uncles or a wife? Because if she’s their sister… awkward…
I’m so white, that when cops see me, they start beating themselves.
*prolonged ovation*
so when someone comes on this fair blog and asks where the white women at we can point to you
Oh, honey, I think I got you beat.
Besides, that whole “east European” thing puts you in sketchy territory to begin with…
Dang, girl! You is WHITE!
Crazy, no?
The really weird part is that the family history (well-documented) show that our earliest ancestors on Mom’s and Dad’s side arrived in America pre revolutionary war (hers in Massachusetts, his in Virginia).
They really managed to “keep to themselves” for the most part for centuries. If they hadn’t intermarried with some German types somewhere along the way, i’d probably be 100% British/Gaelic.
i never thought “british” was a particularly singular ‘genetic ethnicity’.
I’ve never done one of those genetic test things so i don’t know how they typically characterize it, but i watched the ‘journey of man’ thing and read books about the ancient history of the british isles and the various populations that arrived, and it was hardly monolithic. Anglo-Saxon, Celt, Norman, Viking, Roman, etc. Its not like british was ‘sui generis’
They can isolate it to a country, but not necessarily an ethnic region within each country. My sister took one from and we wound up with 37% “Iberian Peninsula.”
“mostly eggplant“
Yeah, she was confused by the 1% North African. I tried explaining the Moorish conquest of Spain, but I stopped.
Very true about the mixed nature of the British Isles due to conquest. Yet, they have been isolated sufficiently (from Europe) to show in distinct DNA sequences. So it became an ethnicity of sorts. And regardless of the proximity of “England” to Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, they can tell the difference between English and Gaelic in the DNA.
As the DNA database grows and they get more permissions to study centuries old burials and take DNA, they continue to refine the results. I check back on the results every few months and sometimes see a minor change. Now I know I am 2% Russian. My husband got tagged with 2% Sephardic Jew (Diaspora-Iberian Peninsula), which didn’t show up the first year but as the database grew, that’s what originally was “middle east” became.
Pretty cool.
Whenever you want to know whether you’re white enough, just ask yourself, “Would Hitler have exterminated any of my forebears?”
Actual skin color accurately portrayed in Avatar pic.
I would probably have been safe. Except I like to think I would have been all Winston Churchill on their Nazi asses.
You could be albino slav! or just spend too much time indoors. other features betray ancestry.
Where does half Norvegian, half Svede fall on the spectrum?
Self-hating scandie?
I hate myself, but I never show it.
Perfect! So very Scandahoovian.
It’s an accurate stereotype. My grandfather was, I think 84, goes out with my uncle to the jobsite to set up for laying some brick. An hour later or so, he has a heart attack, which he chokes back, and continues to work until saying something about it at lunchtime. Turns out, that was not a good plan.
Wow. Well, the Vikings had to come from somewhere.
Great piece Not.
there should be a period. And a longer not
Great piece. Nooot
asphinctersezwut?
COMMA, DAMMIT!
OT, but also still relevant: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/05/black-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-level-on-record/?utm_term=.a19784698043
That’s right, black unemployment has dropped to the lowest level ever recorded in the US!
Unsurprisingly, somehow, the commenters manage to credit Obama for this.
Has the workforce participation rate gone back up to normal again yet?
It’s actually not addressed in the article, which isn’t surprising. But from other things I’ve read, i believe it has come back up from the bottom during the Obama years.
Nope
https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet
link leads to a dead page
Nuts. but it’s around 63% and it has been that way since around 2013. The high was during the Clinton years around 67 and right before the great recession it was about about 66%.
FWIW when looking at long-term historical trends in LFPR (as in, >10 years), it’s worth noting that LFPR for men has been on a long slow decline (about 3% per decade) since 1950 while LFPR for women was on a somewhat faster rise (about 5% per decade) from 1950 to 1990 before topping off around 60% in 2000. Unless the trend in male LFPR reverses or female LFPR starts kicking up again, it’s quite possible that we will not return to 1990s levels of labor force participation any time soon.
This shows a bottom of 59.9% in 2013, and a December 2017 at 61.8%, hit 63% in July 2017
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01300006
Not really. It has recovered ever so slightly since hitting a 40-year low in late 2015, but it has been essentially flat (varied within a band of less than 1%) since 2014.
Although, it is worth noting that LFPR of blacks specifically is actually trending up, from 60.3% in December 2013 to 62.1% in December 2017. So the employment recovery for African Americans is quite real.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300006
Ok, i understand. So participation rate flat while unemployment drops to lowest ever, still good news, right?
Yes.
While not bad news, as it means there are actually more people employed, my metric of unemployment is “People not in a job”, and I’m annoyed that they discard discouraged jobseekers from the stats. It makes things look less bad.
Unemployed people not looking for a job are still unemployed.
I agree 100%. My point is that, ceteris paribus, lower nominal unemployment is a good thing.
N.B. all my comments are based upon the seasonally adjusted numbers.
Well, it’s easy to get the unemployment numbers down when you throw people back in chains and force them back onto plantations. Joe Biden predicted this would happen. Black unemployment was real low before the Civil War.
FTA:
If this is true, what degrees are they getting? I find it highly suspicious that someone with a marketable degree would make 2/3rds of a high school dropout.
I read that too and thought it sounded weird. One thing is that they’re saying net worth, not income.
I wonder what time period after graduation this would apply to? Because if they’re looking at immediately after graduation, considering student loans vs no student loans, it could be possible to have a college degree but have a net worth 2/3rds that of a dropout who has been working for 5-6 years.
Good catch. That would explain things, and it would not surprise me since people often use statistics dishonestly.
Net worth is an unusual choice of metric, and probably is resulting in apples-to-oranges comparisons. You would, at the very least, need to adjust for some factors (like age and lifetime income) and should probably being using something like net worth less student loan debt.
As an illustration of this problem, let’s suppose your average 30-year-old black college graduate is making $40k/year while your average 30-year-old white high school dropout is making $25k/year. If you then told me that the black college grad has less net worth than the white dropout, the picture that is painted is quite different.
3/5
I LOL’d
As you point out in the article- Irish, Italians, and even Germans at one time or another were not considered “White”. All immigrant groups get shit when they first arrive and older immigrant groups join in on shitting on the new immigrants. I grew-up in an ethnic ghetto surrounded by other ethnic ghettos- I saw it happen first hand. But, unlike any other country, with time and the ability to speak English all immigrants get accepted into the mainstream culture. So the shit that immigrants receive (which is far less now than it once was) is a rite of passage, rather than a permanent state (as it is in most places in the world). But, native Americans and African Americans have received a disproportionate amount of shit (especially since they were never actual immigrants into this country) and will always remain somewhat outside of mainstream culture. That is a blind spot that is sometimes gets forgotten when issues like race are discussed.
As far as Native Americans, I see it is more of a self-imposed exile, rather than an inevitability. I live between three reservations, you can see the different mentalities between the people who just live their lives like everyone else, and the ones who live their life assuming they disadvantaged by position of birth; and that is reflected in the way other people treat them.
This seems true to me. One of my good friends is 100% Indian (Navajo and Hopi). Never lived on a reservation, has a good job, lives a regular life just like anyone else. He doesn’t hide his heritage by any means but he doesn’t make it the pinnacle of his existence, nor does he nurse any grievances from it.
It is silly that race is still such a factor and it does not seem to disappear just polarize between white good and white evil. Then again Romania has a long way to go on this field. maybe we can go the right direction.
How do you Romanians feel about gypsies? That’s still a pretty touchy one, isnt it?
Of the Romanians I know, when that subject has come up, let’s say they haven’t really minced words. Not really fans of the gypsies, you might say.
Not that I’ve known them to mince words about much of anything else, either, though. Which I like.
not good …
Gypsies, tramps, and thieves..?
*fiercely narrows gaze*
but to be fair it is a difficult situation. Most Romanians are prejudice but many of the Roma are not exactly helping… they do commit a lot of crime and beg a lot and have a clan based organisation and some very specific customs. They marry their kids at 13 14 sometimes and have their own law separate from the rest and little regard from others. I am not trying to justify prejudice, but what I am saying in order to end it effort must be made in both sides.
Yeah, that’s the impression I am under as well. It’s not as much of an ethnicity thing as it is a cultural behavioral problem. Same with the ones who made it to the states.
It’s not just Romania, the main time I was involved in a discussion on this, it was with some friends from Bucharest and from Madrid, and the Spanish sentiment was basically no different from the Romanian.
I don’t personally know what to make of it, and think it’s an interesting question in terms of libertarian philosophy. The Roma are an ethnic group, but I don’t think it’s actually their ethnicity that is the problem (though I assume you’ll have a full complement of ethnic slurs). It’s rather, as you describe, that their lifestyle is just highly incompatible with the society that surrounds them. Or, that is the impression I have formed, anyway.
So on one hand, I’d tend to say, hey, whatever, do your thing. While on the other, I have no problem with people discriminating against you, because you choose to do your thing.
Far as I know, same as most Central and Southern Europe. It’s the one thing held in common from Gdansk to Instanbul…
From Milan to Minsk?
Probably, but I’m not sure how many Gypsies are in Russia.
They do hate them in Italy something fierce, though…
One of my favorite lines.
Since I trust y’all so much I’ll share this here. I’ve recently discovered that I’m not so pure Irish and northern euro. I have a Swiss ancestor and a *lowers voice* French one.
You poor bastard.
Stay away from garden snails.
Sacrebleu!
I have a French last name. My family is unsure of how and when we acquired it.
An interesting thing I came across a while back when doing some genealogy digging – my grandma’s family being 100% Georgia crackers, I had always just assumed they were some mixture of English/Scots-Irish, but her mother’s maiden name was Hutto, which is a bit of an oddball surname. Apparently, all Huttos in America can trace their family back to one immigrant, one Isaac Hutto. It seems Isaac’s actual name was Otto and he came from Germany. I came across a long piece authored by a well-known amateur genealogist, which unfortunately is no longer online because the author has since died, which argued that this Isaac Otto actually wasn’t German, but that his family had fled to the Lower Palatinate as French Huguenots after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, and that the name was actually Hautot, from Hautot-sur-Mer, which was the town in Normandy that the author argued they fled from. Hautot in French would be pronounced “Otto”, and it would explain why the H was added in America to make “Hutto”. So a small slice of my family line might have been frog, to our eternal shame.
No idea how true it is, but it was an interesting story.
The Hutts are from Tatooine.
I thought it was Nal Hutta?
EU isn’t cannon.
My definition of cannon is: that which is internally consistent.
Mine has something to do with barrels and shells – not sure how internal consistency figures in there.
Guns. You’re thinking of guns Unreconstructed.
Nal Hutta is G-Canon.
Fighting words.
Cool. I worked with a guy named Hutto once. He didn’t know where the name came from.
GENFER!
What it means to be white is a bit like the old question about what it means to be a Jew. Some say it’s a race, a religion, a culture, or something else. I thin what we’re really talking about is all those things, which is to say that American whiteness is an ethnicity of which ancestry is a fairly insignificant component.
Talking about ethnicity is more about shared cultural norms, shared assumptions, maybe shared language, shared customs, . . .
I don’t believe American whiteness as an ethnicity only exists in relation to non-whites. It may be, however, that the things we share are so deeply steeped in our assumptions that we imagine they’re universal. Equality before the law, the protestant work ethic, self-confidence, even . . .these are not universally held by every culture. We even have huge differences between us and other white cultures from other English speaking countries and cultures.
When I talk to Kiwis, Aussies, Brits, even Canadians, I’ll often hear them refer to Americans or other Kiwis, Aussies, Brits, or Canadians as “arrogant”. It’s an enormous insult. To be arrogant is a terrible thing. I can’t remember the last time I heard an American refer to anyone else as “arrogant”. It isn’t that we don’t know the word or what it means. I think it’s that the qualities we associate with arrogance are positive in white American society and culture. What they perceive as “arrogance” we perceive as confidence, decisiveness, being good under pressure. Meanwhile the Aussies and Kiwis, especially, see their own “tall poppy syndrome” phenomenon, which is the tendency of the general public to tear down anybody who grows faster or taller than the rest. I’m not saying that never happens here, but it’s not the norm. I remember listening to John Lydon ad Steve Jones of Sex Pistols fame talk about how they both liked living in America because people don’t resent you for getting rich.
Our tolerance for risk, individualism, respect for being self-made . . . it’s tremendous.
In the UK, if you speak with a certain accent, didn’t attend Oxbridge, or didn’t go to Eaton, you can’t really work your way up into the elite of society. It doesn’t matter how rich you get; in fact, having earned your own money is a bit of an embarrassment. The upper class made their money the old fashioned way–they inherited it. Here in the U.S., rich people will make up mythologies about having started a company in their garage. Our politicians used to brag about being born in a log cabin. Rich people will still brag about having worked as a waiter or something before they made it. Nepotism is frowned on. If the boss’ kid is working at the firm, he’d often prefer that no one knew–because it’s embarrassing. In white American society, you’re supposed to make it on your own.
Even among white Mexicans, when I lived there, I became acutely aware that they viewed things differently. Their idea of “selfish” is different. In Mexico, “selfish” is someone who won’t share what he has with others. In white America, “selfish” is helping yourself to things that don’t belong to you. They use the same word, but the definitions are in almost perfect opposition.
White America has a shared culture all its own, and it’s inclusive enough that it invites people of all races to be a part of it. Because we’re talking about various cultural assumptions, it’s hard to see them under normal circumstances. It may be even harder because when we consume media, the setting is always from an American perspective. Other cultures watch Seinfeld or “I Love Lucy” and they see big differences between their own cultures and what they see on TV.
Make no mistake, white American ethnicity is not an empty set just waiting to have some other culture put something into it. We are unlike other people in distinct ways that other ethnicities notice. I suspect part of it is that because white American culture tends to be more individual centered, it’s more inclusive than maybe some other cultures might be. Individual achievement is respected in white American culture–and because that probably leads to different kinds of people entering the culture, doesn’t mean it isn’t an aspect of our culture. When the rest of the world, from Europeans to the Middle East, fear the Americanization of their culture, it isn’t a null set they’re worried about. It’s our values, assumptions, preferences, they’re a real force.
See examples 1 & 2.
White American culture scares the shit out of people!
brevity is the soul of white
*golf clap*
Example I
White American culture is a voodoo cult dancing down the street for unknown purposes.
And it’s inescapable. And it’s coming after you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7APmRkatEU
It sure as hell ain’t nothing.
I imagine we look like an individualist version of the Borg to many cultures.
We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
You will listen to our music.
You will wear jeans.
You will eat fast food.
You will watch our movies.
Your status will depend on individual achievement.
Resistance is futile.
My friend’s Korean girlfriend recently said, “Why does Christmas make me feel sad”?
He replied to her, “That’s just a sign that you’ve become Americanized”.
He’s probably right.
Example 2
I hate the feelin’ when you’re looking at me that way
Cause we’re north americans
But if we act all shy, it’ll make it ok
Makes it go away.
…
We are north american scum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ2np7R-Uwg
Have you ever been in another country and had to deal with those assumptions about Americans?
They’re mostly correct.
We’re not like the English or the Germans or the Australians.
We’re white Americans.
Yeah, no. Current Mayor of London is a member of society’s elite. Head of RBS is a New Zealander who went to university in New Zealand and head of Bank of England is a Canadian who went to Harvard. Future PM Corbyn never went to university as far as I can see, and former PM Brown was an Edinburgh man all the way. Pop singers (all over), football players (lower class occupation) and actors (now these had a head start on getting titles, so it’s about even) are as elite-accepted as they are in US. Not to mention various foreign plutocrats who bought up central London and are part and parcel of social life there.
This year’s Honours list, says Wiki, had 9.3% recipients be of the “darkie” persuasion (BAME as they are called in UK), including one Mohammed Muktar Jama Farah for the services of running really fast.
UK has many bad spots, but year 1950 arrived even there.
Future PM Corbyn
You poor bastards.
I don’t live there, I’m just an Anglophile.
I do live under the sock of PM Zoolander, so…better than Corbyn?
I’m not saying there aren’t any exceptions. It wasn’t meant to be an iron clad absolute.
I’m saying that American culture is different in this way.
Certainly you don’t mean to suggest that the UK is no more class conscious than the United States, that successful people in the UK brag about their lowly origins as a badge of honor like people do in the U.S., or that if they let the lower classes become CEOs these days, it means that there aren’t any class distinctions anymore.
Yes, we have some class distinctions here in America, too, and I’m sure there have always been people in the UK who were able to access privileges typically reserved for the upper classes.
That’s a long way from making general statements about American attitudes towards class being the same as in the UK. They’re much more class conscious over there. We have classes over here, too, but they aren’t tied to accent or even schooling as much. In fact, having dropped out of college to do something entrepreneurial is often seen as to brag about–if you’re sucessful. In fact, one of the typical criticisms I hear about Americans, from over there, is that the first thing Americans ask about people they meet them is often what they do for a living. Yes, Americans judge you by what you do for a living. It’s probably the most important social signifier to Americans. To whatever extent that has become more important to Brits recently, I suspect it still isn’t like it is with Americans.
In Mexico, people want to know about your family. To some extent, Americans also want to know about your family, but it’s not like it is in Mexico.
Class in England is a much more fixed-in-stone thing and not really tied to wealth. You get a bit of that in the US in the older eastern cities – Philly Main Line, Boston Brahmins, NY Knickerbockers, Virginia FFVs – they’re USUALLY rich, but not always.
It’s not that Americans don’t believe in “arrogance”, so much as we associate the concept with the pompous bullshit exhibited by our supposed superiors in the political classes, not with assertiveness or self-confidence.
You think you know better than the scientists, your MP, and the experts–you arrogant American!
What are your qualifications?
Certainly for me, anyway, the appeal to authority was always the fallacy to which I was least susceptible.
I do think there’s probably something very American about that.
Coming to a country near you.
https://hotair.com/archives/2018/01/05/great-moments-single-payer-britain-cancels-50000-surgeries/
Must be fake news. I once talked to a lefty that sliced open his hand on vacation in England and was able to get it stitched up before he bled out, thus proving the superiority of socialized medicine.
I got my hand sliced open in portugal, and it was stitched up for zero cost on the same day due to public-healthcare
i just waited in a dirty waiting room for 2 hours, and had a nice doctor do some quick needle-work. it wasn’t rocket surgery. i think my positive impression might have been diminished had i actually suffered a heart attack or some unknown infectious disease.
Not Adahn – nice work, man. I’m slowly trying to get a few of my friends to join the Glibertariat, and this is one of the articles I’ve shared to them.
Let’s see – paternal grandmother, Italian, grandfather, Born in Belfast. My mother was born in Scotland, and her mother was from the worst social housing project in Glasgow, and grandfather wasn’t far away from there, either.
All working class immigrants to Canada with no education whatsoever to speak of.
If I’m white anything, it’s definitely trash.
Iran ayatollah claims to have stopped protests by blocking Telegram app
Keep telling yourself that, Einstein.
My Swedish g grandmother met my Norwegian g grandfather in Chicago. Both families in the old countries disowned them.it was basically an interracial marriage to them.
When I lived in Sweden, I knew some Norwegians who are still pretty peeved about the Swedes basically letting Germany march right across Sweden to invade Norway.
Sweden was NOT neutral in WWII. If an allied plane emergency landed in Sweden, they’d return the pilots and crew to their native country but confiscate the equipment. If an Axis plane emergency landed, they helped fix it back up, fueled it up, and let them fly on.
the demographic data of Sweden is amusing when you realize their historic tracking of “foreigners” in the country was largely other scandinavians.
even now, people think they’ve been overwhelmed by refugees, but of the ~20% ‘foreign born’ pop, about half that are norweigans/finns. they’re still mostly lilly white, and yet the alt right thinks they’re a case study in muslim reconquista
Wait, Finns are white now?
Who’s next? Slavs? HUNGARIANS?!
Let’s not get carried away. Hungarians aren’t even Indo-European.
They’re most likely some kind of alien.
How many Glibs took the 23 and Me and had it come back 100% Tulpa?
ALL.